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    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 9th Sep 17, 8:48 AM
    • 13Posts
    • 7Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    Employer unable to pay wages
    • #1
    • 9th Sep 17, 8:48 AM
    Employer unable to pay wages 9th Sep 17 at 8:48 AM
    Hi,

    Just wanted some advice as to the next step . My husbands employer has been unable to pay wages up to date . For the past 12 weeks he has been getting part or no wages, then gets one week and so it continues. At present he is owed 3weeks wages. They approached the HR yesterday and handed in a letter with their grievance and were told even with this letter they still haven't got the money to pay wages. This is, as you can imagine, a very stressful and worrying tome as we have bills, mortgage etc and have been using what little savings we had.

    My husband has worked here for 20 years so would be due redundancy if the company went bust , but they do not seem to be going down this route.

    Could anyone give any advice as to what his next step should be. He is not in any Union.

    Thanks in advance!
Page 2
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 10th Sep 17, 7:38 PM
    • 4,028 Posts
    • 6,525 Thanks
    sangie595
    It's the new company that he is employed by now , they owe the money it is currently at 3 weeks. I just think they are hiding something , but at the moment it is so frustrating, he works hard and should be paid for it . It is such an uncertain time and very stressful .
    Originally posted by Dragonfly74
    No. You need to explain more. How can he be employed by another company? How does he know? What had happened? Who owes him money?

    Believe me, these questions are very important, and could make a big difference to what we can advise you...
    • another casualty
    • By another casualty 10th Sep 17, 9:44 PM
    • 3,035 Posts
    • 4,868 Thanks
    another casualty
    Is his job hard to come by ( specialist ) . Could he possibly temp?
    Not sure of his age etc . What about his colleagues ? What are their thoughts about leaving ? Maybe the company want to pay a pittance to new people ( cheap labour ) , and give your hubby the buns rush .
    Seems like your husband and colleagues should treat the company like politicians and not trust them at all.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 11th Sep 17, 10:22 AM
    • 15,128 Posts
    • 14,763 Thanks
    Guest101
    I am afraid there is little he can do. They can submit a letter before (legal) action for the money owed, but if the company don't have the money that won't make one iota of difference. And if the company refuses to go into administration, the cost of forcing that to happen would far exceed what is owed. If they simply stopped trading and didn't go into administration, then the government scheme does not compensate workers for wages or redundancy pay owed. So I would agree that getting another job would be the most reliable way of securing his income, albeit it won't solve his problem. But it will head off the bigger one if they simply cease trading.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Presumably there's a number of employees affected. as a group the cost per individual would be substantially smaller (assuming that other creditors aren't doing the same) ?
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 12th Sep 17, 8:25 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    The original company is listed on company's house and voluntary liquidation, he has been employed by the same employer with different name and director. He is a welder and is 46. Don't want to say too much about the company on here I case it causes problems for him.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 12th Sep 17, 10:04 AM
    • 15,128 Posts
    • 14,763 Thanks
    Guest101
    The original company is listed on company's house and voluntary liquidation, he has been employed by the same employer with different name and director. He is a welder and is 46. Don't want to say too much about the company on here I case it causes problems for him.
    Originally posted by Dragonfly74
    What like not getting paid?....


    If you want accurate advice, you need to give full details
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 12th Sep 17, 12:01 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    But at least he still employed! I don't wasn't to name company in case there are other implications.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 12th Sep 17, 1:00 PM
    • 15,128 Posts
    • 14,763 Thanks
    Guest101
    But at least he still employed! I don't wasn't to name company in case there are other implications.
    Originally posted by Dragonfly74
    Fair enough, but that isn't what people asked for.


    Simply put Company A, Company B, what relationship they have and what relationship your husband has with either/both
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Sep 17, 1:11 PM
    • 4,028 Posts
    • 6,525 Thanks
    sangie595
    Fair enough, but that isn't what people asked for.


    Simply put Company A, Company B, what relationship they have and what relationship your husband has with either/both
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Quite. I didn't ask for names. But relationships and timescales are critical to the issue, and may open other options - or close them down entirely. We simply can't help if you don't tell us everything. Except the name. Although I suspect they are too busy to browse the web!
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 12th Sep 17, 6:07 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    I wasn't being off with that comment, sorry if it was taken that way.

    The company in June was put into voluntary liquidation.
    To date their address has changed to a liquidation company.

    The new company was named and had change of director in May along with two other company names linked.

    He has been transferred under tupe with the new company. This wasn't discussed until the workers called a meeting to ask about their rights as most of them have been there a long time too.


    This is the most I can find out.

    I think something underhand is going on , but I don't know what.

    Thank you in advance of your advice.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Sep 17, 6:44 PM
    • 4,028 Posts
    • 6,525 Thanks
    sangie595
    I wasn't being off with that comment, sorry if it was taken that way.

    The company in June was put into voluntary liquidation.
    To date their address has changed to a liquidation company.

    The new company was named and had change of director in May along with two other company names linked.

    He has been transferred under tupe with the new company. This wasn't discussed until the workers called a meeting to ask about their rights as most of them have been there a long time too.


    This is the most I can find out.

    I think something underhand is going on , but I don't know what.

    Thank you in advance of your advice.
    Originally posted by Dragonfly74
    It wasn't. It was just that we can't help with inadequate information. And actually I am still struggling. It may be that you don't know the answers or can't say them. Let's try specific questions...

    Can you explain how the new company acquired the old company?
    Which company owes you what?
    Had ANYONE mentioned CVAs? You don't need to know what it means, just did anyone say anything like this?
    Is the director of the old company on the new company - or related to any of them?
    How do you know there was a TUPE? What were you told about this?
    Please tell me what happened in this meeting the workers called.

    I know this site doesn't like, for good reason, taking stuff to PMs. In fact, mine are disabled anyway. I don't want to make friends! But it may be reaching a point where I need to know who these companies are to be able to give any advice at all. Because what you are describing sounds wrong to me. Not just the normal "wrong" as in "employers are ****** and we all hate them" wrong. More wrong than that. For a new company took be unable to meet its obligations in just a month or two, even with "pheonixing" doesn't sound right. This may be beyond the remit of the public board - or it may be something you need a lawyer to look at. And if that isn't possible, you may have to draw a line under it and get the hell out. Because you may just be throwing good money after bad to try to get what you are owed.
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 12th Sep 17, 8:13 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    Hi,

    Thank you.

    No mention of IVA, just a meeting , which my husband recorded , saying that they did not want to go down the redundancy route and this new company and the transfer of undertakings is a really unusual case, that is why it took so long for a letter clarifying the tupe.

    The new company director is the old company directors wife , who is also the HR person. She is now the named director.

    The last meeting held was where the unpaid wages were brought up. They were told that they were waiting on money to be paid for work completed. Since then they have a given a letter stating their greivance.

    At present there is 3 weeks money owing, which I am sure will be 4 byThursday!

    When he returns from site , he is going to approach them again for an update .

    Thanks again
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Sep 17, 8:24 PM
    • 4,028 Posts
    • 6,525 Thanks
    sangie595
    Yeah. That doesn't answer all of it. But enough. You will never see the money. This is called pheonixing. The new company has no obligation to pay the debts of the old one. He is being lied to. This one doesn't pay up, there'll be another company in the daughters/ cousins/ brother in laws name. I regret to say, it is still legal. It shouldn't be, but it is. If he ever sees the money he is owed up to date, I'll send £1000 to his favourite charity. This happens far too often. So far I have never donated the money, but I'm willing to do so!
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 12th Sep 17, 10:23 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    Get out while he can then?
    Would you try to get the unpaid wages then ?
    I knew there was something dodgy going on! All them years of loyalty,makes me so angry.

    Thanks for all your help

    Kelly
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Sep 17, 8:02 AM
    • 4,028 Posts
    • 6,525 Thanks
    sangie595
    Yes, if he can get another job then do so as quickly as possible. Then try to get the wages. But anything prior to the new company is probably gone for good. And the chances of even getting anything owed by the new company is low. They will just do this all over again. There is nothing unusual about what has been done. Unfortunately. They have been conned. Just tell him to keep pushing for the money, and don't let on that he's looking for a way out. The longer he can keep the employer in the dark, the more chance there is of them paying at least something just to keep him and his colleagues hanging on in there. When he leaves, they have no incentive to pay. Make sure that you have records of everything. Come back once he has got another job and update us and we can talk him through the best options for trying to recover the money.
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 13th Sep 17, 8:20 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    Thank you so much.

    Yes I will tell him. It just doesn't seem right.

    Kelly
    • Brighty
    • By Brighty 13th Sep 17, 9:12 AM
    • 729 Posts
    • 378 Thanks
    Brighty
    But anything prior to the new company is probably gone for good.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    If the new company took over in May, and the staff are only owed 3/4 weeks wages now and were paid up to date until May , then surely that's all owed by the new company, the old company owe them nothing?
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 13th Sep 17, 12:27 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    They have been getting a week paid, then nothing, then up to date and this is what has been happening since then. It is now 3 almost 4 weeks now but there is no money to pay them apparently.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 16th Sep 17, 11:18 PM
    • 1,601 Posts
    • 774 Thanks
    Mersey
    But I know exactly why I said these things - because I am correct.
    Originally posted by sangie595


    Far from it.


    Not only is it incorrect to assert - as you did Sangie595 - that:


    "the cost of doing so [issuing/enforcement] would far exceed what is owed"


    If you had provided that advice in a professional capacity it would be negligent.


    I repeat: the average sum owed in wages was £2,800 and yet it only costs from £35 to issue and £100 to enforce. So not even close, never mind your false "far exceed" claim.


    [It's also far speedier to obtain a CCJ and payment than go to an ET - not that you advised that either of course. Just the usual: advising claimants not to pursue their claims.]
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
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