Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 9th Sep 17, 8:48 AM
    • 13Posts
    • 7Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    Employer unable to pay wages
    • #1
    • 9th Sep 17, 8:48 AM
    Employer unable to pay wages 9th Sep 17 at 8:48 AM
    Hi,

    Just wanted some advice as to the next step . My husbands employer has been unable to pay wages up to date . For the past 12 weeks he has been getting part or no wages, then gets one week and so it continues. At present he is owed 3weeks wages. They approached the HR yesterday and handed in a letter with their grievance and were told even with this letter they still haven't got the money to pay wages. This is, as you can imagine, a very stressful and worrying tome as we have bills, mortgage etc and have been using what little savings we had.

    My husband has worked here for 20 years so would be due redundancy if the company went bust , but they do not seem to be going down this route.

    Could anyone give any advice as to what his next step should be. He is not in any Union.

    Thanks in advance!
Page 1
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 9th Sep 17, 10:30 AM
    • 4,094 Posts
    • 4,220 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #2
    • 9th Sep 17, 10:30 AM
    • #2
    • 9th Sep 17, 10:30 AM
    If the company can't afford to pay staff wages I would suggest they are a long way down the road to going bust. If he isn't being paid I would have thought he should be looking for a new job now. He could lose more in unpaid wages than he will get in redundancy pay if the current situation continues.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Sep 17, 10:52 AM
    • 4,026 Posts
    • 6,522 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #3
    • 9th Sep 17, 10:52 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Sep 17, 10:52 AM
    Hi,

    Just wanted some advice as to the next step . My husbands employer has been unable to pay wages up to date . For the past 12 weeks he has been getting part or no wages, then gets one week and so it continues. At present he is owed 3weeks wages. They approached the HR yesterday and handed in a letter with their grievance and were told even with this letter they still haven't got the money to pay wages. This is, as you can imagine, a very stressful and worrying tome as we have bills, mortgage etc and have been using what little savings we had.

    My husband has worked here for 20 years so would be due redundancy if the company went bust , but they do not seem to be going down this route.

    Could anyone give any advice as to what his next step should be. He is not in any Union.

    Thanks in advance!
    Originally posted by Dragonfly74
    I am afraid there is little he can do. They can submit a letter before (legal) action for the money owed, but if the company don't have the money that won't make one iota of difference. And if the company refuses to go into administration, the cost of forcing that to happen would far exceed what is owed. If they simply stopped trading and didn't go into administration, then the government scheme does not compensate workers for wages or redundancy pay owed. So I would agree that getting another job would be the most reliable way of securing his income, albeit it won't solve his problem. But it will head off the bigger one if they simply cease trading.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 9th Sep 17, 1:55 PM
    • 4,094 Posts
    • 4,220 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #4
    • 9th Sep 17, 1:55 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Sep 17, 1:55 PM
    I thought it was illegal for a company to continue trading when they know they are insolvent. I don't know the legal definition of 'insolvent' but this lot clearly can't pay their bills.
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 9th Sep 17, 2:15 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    • #5
    • 9th Sep 17, 2:15 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Sep 17, 2:15 PM
    Thank you for all your replies.
    My husband has got an option of another job with less pay , but we were unsure if it would be worth hanging on to get redundancy or to cut his losses. It is such a strange situation. They did have administrators in but it was decided that they would continue trading under a different name. Luckily the staff fought for a tupe so service years were carried over. However now I wonder what to do for the best.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 9th Sep 17, 2:29 PM
    • 9,905 Posts
    • 7,972 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    • #6
    • 9th Sep 17, 2:29 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Sep 17, 2:29 PM
    How long does your husband want to "hang on" for? 6 months? A year? Surely it is better to work for a company that pays what it owes?
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 9th Sep 17, 2:52 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    • #7
    • 9th Sep 17, 2:52 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Sep 17, 2:52 PM
    Yes, I know just a horrible situation to be in never knowing if he will be getting paid.
    • esuhl
    • By esuhl 9th Sep 17, 3:12 PM
    • 7,721 Posts
    • 5,511 Thanks
    esuhl
    • #8
    • 9th Sep 17, 3:12 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Sep 17, 3:12 PM
    If a company told me they weren't going to pay my salary as they didn't have the money, I wouldn't continue working until they'd settled their debt.
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 9th Sep 17, 3:22 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    • #9
    • 9th Sep 17, 3:22 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Sep 17, 3:22 PM
    It is a strange situation it's as if they pay them a week then nothing then it is paid up to date , then nothing again. I didn't know wether it was worth seeing a solicitor.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Sep 17, 3:49 PM
    • 4,026 Posts
    • 6,522 Thanks
    sangie595
    I thought it was illegal for a company to continue trading when they know they are insolvent. I don't know the legal definition of 'insolvent' but this lot clearly can't pay their bills.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    It is. But like most things, it is never that simple. Nobody polices this - nobody has a right to. So it would require a creditor to take legal action. And even then trading whilst insolvent isn't clear cut. Trading whilst not always paying your bills doesn't cut it. Companies can and do trade themselves out of temporary cash flow problems - and that is perfectly legal.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Sep 17, 3:51 PM
    • 4,026 Posts
    • 6,522 Thanks
    sangie595
    If a company told me they weren't going to pay my salary as they didn't have the money, I wouldn't continue working until they'd settled their debt.
    Originally posted by esuhl
    You could certainly do that. But two breaches of contract don't make right - if you don't work you terminate your employment and then you are entitled to nothing except overdue wages anyway!
    • Kayalana99
    • By Kayalana99 9th Sep 17, 5:30 PM
    • 3,335 Posts
    • 5,967 Thanks
    Kayalana99
    If they literally can't afford to pay wages, what makes you think he would get his pay out for redunancy if they went under?
    People don't know what they want until you show them.
    • dancing_star
    • By dancing_star 9th Sep 17, 5:54 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 246 Thanks
    dancing_star
    If they literally can't afford to pay wages, what makes you think he would get his pay out for redunancy if they went under?
    Originally posted by Kayalana99
    Government payout:
    https://www.gov.uk/your-rights-if-your-employer-is-insolvent/claiming-money-owed-to-you
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Sep 17, 6:12 PM
    • 4,026 Posts
    • 6,522 Thanks
    sangie595
    But as I have already pointed out, that is only partially true. It works if your employer is legally insolvent - in other words if they declare insolvency. But the government scheme does not pay out if the employer simply stops trading and goes under. To enter insolvency actually costs money! So the company would have to file for liquidation and pay the appropriate fees. It's cheaper simply to stop trading and let your creditors and employees go whistle for their cash. Plenty of companies do it. And if that happens one or more creditors would have to apply to the courts (in other words, spend even more money) to have the company wound up. The cost of doing that, if there is no prospect of the company having any assets to realise, is prohibitive - it's simply throwing good money after bad.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 9th Sep 17, 10:49 PM
    • 1,601 Posts
    • 774 Thanks
    Mersey
    A Letter of Claim is the best way (it's polite and the only civil legal remedy). If the employer fails to respond after 14 days your OH can issue proceedings in the County Court at a cost of just £35+.


    Contrary to what sangie595 claimed ("no one polices this nobody has a right to"), any firm doing so can be reported to its industry body and central Govt.
    [As sadly such rogue firms also often fail to pay NICs, the NMW and so on]


    Indeed any professional firm doing so is in breach (solicitors, accountants, medics, dentists, architects and so on) and will have its licence/cert revoked. Indeed to be in financial trouble is a specific breach of all of those prof firms regulatory compliance rules, but is also the case re CABs, churches etc.


    Also no idea why sangie595 also claims "the cost of doing so would far exceed what is owed" - it simply would hardly ever be the case! The average sum of wages owed to an employee was £2,800 last year. In fact you can issue enforcement proceedings (to bankrupt a Director or wind up a company), or send enforcement officers after you obtain a CCJ from just £100.
    Last edited by Mersey; 09-09-2017 at 10:52 PM.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 10th Sep 17, 8:17 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    Thank you all again for the responses.

    I think they have decided to see what happens after the letter was given in on Friday and then they may go down the route of claiming the money owed. It doesn't look like they are wanting to go into insolvency as the company is now under a new name and has a different director, the other company is under the Name of a liquidator, I think he is better cutting his losses and getting out as this situation looks as if it will continue indefinitely .

    I will post the outcome of what happens this week.

    Thanks again
    • loskie
    • By loskie 10th Sep 17, 8:32 AM
    • 1,147 Posts
    • 694 Thanks
    loskie
    For the letter before action and CC Claim, does the OP have to name the company AND all the individual directors to better protect their claim?
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 10th Sep 17, 8:59 AM
    • 4,026 Posts
    • 6,522 Thanks
    sangie595
    A Letter of Claim is the best way (it's polite and the only civil legal remedy). If the employer fails to respond after 14 days your OH can issue proceedings in the County Court at a cost of just £35+. Of course, that is £35 more than an empowerment tribunal - which is now free - and only tribunal judgments are backed by the government scheme for unpaid awards under the RPS.


    Contrary to what sangie595 claimed ("no one polices this nobody has a right to"), any firm doing so can be reported to its industry body and central Govt.
    [As sadly such rogue firms also often fail to pay NICs, the NMW and so on] But there is no evidence that any of these things have happened! There is no central government body even vaguely interested in whether a company has paid its workers. And no evidence that there is an industry body either.


    Indeed any professional firm doing so is in breach (solicitors, accountants, medics, dentists, architects and so on) and will have its licence/cert revoked. Indeed to be in financial trouble is a specific breach of all of those prof firms regulatory compliance rules, but is also the case re CABs, churches etc. And where does it say that this is a professional firm? Or works under a licence or certificate of anything?


    Also no idea why sangie595 also claims "the cost of doing so would far exceed what is owed" - it simply would hardly ever be the case! The average sum of wages owed to an employee was £2,800 last year. In fact you can issue enforcement proceedings (to bankrupt a Director or wind up a company), or send enforcement officers after you obtain a CCJ from just £100 From just £100 is "from" not "at". Enforcement procedures are pointless if a company had nothing for them to take to realise that money (and subsequently to this we now know that the company appears to have pheonixed already, so there won't be anything). And typically, the cost of creditors bringing a company to insolvency is £2 - 3,000.
    Originally posted by Mersey
    It appears this is moot anyway now as the most recent information pours a new slant on it. But I know exactly why I said these things - because I am correct.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 10th Sep 17, 9:01 AM
    • 4,026 Posts
    • 6,522 Thanks
    sangie595
    Thank you all again for the responses.

    I think they have decided to see what happens after the letter was given in on Friday and then they may go down the route of claiming the money owed. It doesn't look like they are wanting to go into insolvency as the company is now under a new name and has a different director, the other company is under the Name of a liquidator, I think he is better cutting his losses and getting out as this situation looks as if it will continue indefinitely .

    I will post the outcome of what happens this week.

    Thanks again
    Originally posted by Dragonfly74
    Are you able to explain exactly what happened here? When and how did the company do this, and who owes the money - which company? There now may in fact be some action you can take. Maybe not, but it's possible.
    • Dragonfly74
    • By Dragonfly74 10th Sep 17, 1:17 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Dragonfly74
    It's the new company that he is employed by now , they owe the money it is currently at 3 weeks. I just think they are hiding something , but at the moment it is so frustrating, he works hard and should be paid for it . It is such an uncertain time and very stressful .
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,298Posts Today

8,946Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Sneaky NAKED photo... ...of the room where many political and regional TV interviews are done. This is before the? https://t.co/fDdeKQOQuU

  • The Premium Bond rate is being boosted from 1.15% to 1.4% should you pile in? My analysis... https://t.co/3Q7tjphAFO

  • RT @colinjdunn: First #Plevin cheque received this morning - £548.66 from Nationwide & with other claims still outstanding - so thanks @Mar?

  • Follow Martin