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  • FIRST POST
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 8th Sep 17, 11:36 PM
    • 59Posts
    • 15Thanks
    Loki01
    PCN Admin Centre help :(
    • #1
    • 8th Sep 17, 11:36 PM
    PCN Admin Centre help :( 8th Sep 17 at 11:36 PM
    Hello.

    So today I have received Notice to Keeper/Hirer dated from 5.9.2017. The windscreen notice was apparently issued on 31/7/2017 but I am not aware of it and so I couldnt pay the discounted fee (not that I would particularly wanted to). The creditor is Leeds Teaching Hospital. They havent included any pictures with the letter.
    Can somebody help with how to appeal and on what ground?

    Thank you
    Last edited by Loki01; 11-09-2017 at 6:50 PM.
Page 3
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 18th Sep 17, 11:28 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    Do you think you could do me a massive favour and copy in the bits they are quoting?
    I seriously don't know where schedule 2 is
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 18th Sep 17, 11:31 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    They're not quoting 'Section 2', they're quoting 'Schedule 2'. The DPA isn't about parking, it's about handling of personal data. You're not likely to find 'parking' mentioned anywhere in the Act.

    I did one single entry Google search 'The Data Protection Act' and it produced this. Scroll to near the foot of the page and you'll see a link to Schedule 2.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/contents
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    I see!
    Thanks! I will read it now.

    Ok, well that doesn't help with the ticket. What can I send to them regarding that? I have already asked for the popla code again and they are refusing once again.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Sep 17, 11:33 AM
    • 14,962 Posts
    • 23,481 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Have you sent that lengthy complaint (produced for you by Coupon-mad) to the BPA and the DVLA?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 18th Sep 17, 11:39 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    Yes I have. With their second refusal today (found it too late the first time).
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Sep 17, 11:51 AM
    • 14,962 Posts
    • 23,481 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    See what transpires from the complaints. If the hospital/ZZPS are stonewalling you then you've got to get the BPA and DVLA involved.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 3rd Oct 17, 12:30 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    Hello,

    The DVLA hasn't been in touch at all and BPA said it contacted the company.
    It is now quite some time and I am worried that they will come up with some deadline that i have missed.
    If it comes to a court hearing, is the fact that they refused to give me the Popla code and therefore a chance of an appeal going to mean they cannot win?
    Or am I being naive?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Oct 17, 1:01 AM
    • 50,691 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    This is just ten days after you sent the complaint, and it's a serious one. Let the BPA deal with it, my you are a worrier, there is no way this is going anywhere, let alone court.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 3rd Oct 17, 1:23 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    This is just ten days after you sent the complaint, and it's a serious one. Let the BPA deal with it, my you are a worrier, there is no way this is going anywhere, let alone court.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thank you.
    I am a worrier, you are right.
    I am just worried because i work at the place so I think maybe they can say I was the driver. Also not sure if they legally have to give me popla code althought it just seems wrong if they don't. I really had no idea of the charge before the notice came.
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 18th Oct 17, 10:22 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    I just wanted to share this with you. I have received an email from AOS:

    I have received a response from the Operator regarding your complaint and can advise as follows.

    The Operator has confirmed that there was a procedural error and your appeal should have been considered as it was sent within 28 days of the Notice to Keeper being received. Due to this error, the Operator has confirmed they will cancel the parking charge notice and inform you accordingly. As the appropriate corrective action has been taken and we have received assurances that it was a mistake, we have closed the investigation.

    Thank you for bringing the matter to our attention.


    Thank you very much for your help here! I have received this response a week ago so I send an email to the PCN Admin centre asking them to confirm and suggesting they follow the code in the future
    • Redx
    • By Redx 18th Oct 17, 10:24 PM
    • 16,100 Posts
    • 20,155 Thanks
    Redx
    well done

    glad to see it all worked out in the end

    sometimes you just have to stick with it and play the long game

    a win is a win
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Oct 17, 10:49 PM
    • 14,962 Posts
    • 23,481 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    It’s rather falling that they make what is a fundamental error, with serious consequences to you as an individual, yet get away with a shrug of the BPA’s shoulders, yet you make one minor transgression, then it’s £100, a lengthy appeals process to wade through, the prospect of 6 years of harassment from debt collectors, a possible court hearing with tens of hours of research to develop a defence and all its spin-offs, the hearing and a possible CCJ.

    Something doesn’t seem fairly balanced in all this. If you have a fraction of the energy we put into fighting all this, you will as a minimum write to your MP and complain about this appalling and hugely disproportionate imbalance between an out of control PPC behemoth and your average Joe/Josephine motorist.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 18-10-2017 at 10:55 PM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Oct 17, 12:18 AM
    • 50,691 Posts
    • 64,105 Thanks
    Coupon-mad

    Dear Mr Clark and Mr Dunford,

    FORMAL COMPLAINT - PCN XXXXXXX - PCN Admin Centre (ZZPS) persistently refusing to consider in-time appeals from registered keepers


    On 8th September, I received a Notice to Keeper/Hirer out of the blue, from PCN Admin Centre, dated from 5.9.2017.

    A copy is attached to this email.

    A windscreen notice was apparently issued on 31/7/2017 but I am not aware of it, and the driver has not been identified and will not be. The creditor is Leeds Teaching Hospital. There were no photogaphs with the letter, nor proof that any PCN was served at all back in July, nor pictures of the terms on signage. As registered keeper, I appealed about this charge in good faith, as soon as I got the NTK, confident that I had 28 days to appeal. PCN Admin Centre (ZZPS) have denied me a POPLA code - something that I am told is becoming something of a pattern with ZZPS.

    Their reply was curt and harassing and flies in the face of recent 're-training' that I believe ZZPS staff have had as a result of another complaint just a fortnight ago:



    ''Good Morning,

    Thank you for your recent email.

    Please be advised that we have been instructed to pursue this outstanding parking charge notice on behalf of our client.

    To confirm, our clients signage is fully approved by the British Parking Association (BPA).

    Our client is relying on POFA 2012 to pursue this PCN and as no appeal was received within the time period stipulated, it is now too late to appeal further. A POPLA code will not be issued at this time.

    Photographic evidence was requested and has been uploaded to ipaymypcn.net

    We shall note your comments but to inform you without payment, the account will be left to progress accordingly.''



    May I say, how dare they? I am extremely distressed by this matter and their conduct, and am supported by online forum help to write this complaint. The regular posters pointed out this thread where the PCN Admin Centre/ZZPS did the same thing to another poster:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72999307#post72999307

    How many consumers must be receiving this horrendously wrong response and probably paying, not realising that they certainly do have a right to appeal as keeper? I cannot believe this has only happened to two people who happen to have sought online advice from a forum. This is reportedly indicative of what ZZPS appear to consider to be normal conduct; indeed it is alleged by sources close to the recent notorious Indigo case (subject to an appeal currently) that ZZPS had withheld POPLA codes from some of the appellants in the Nurses' case in Wales. This is indefensible and wholly unacceptable , and yet here we are again.

    What are the BPA and DVLA going to do about ZZPS actively ignoring your clear instructions after the investigation into that previous MSE forum case?
    This was the BPA response from Steve Clark, via Emma-Louise:


    "Thank you for your patience whilst this matter was investigated.

    I have received a response from ZZPS who advised that they identified the error on their end and the appeal was considered and formally rejected on 23/08/2017. They advised that a POPLA code was provided to you within the rejection.

    ZZPS have addressed the error with the agent concerned to ensure that they understand the Registered Keeper has 28 days from the Notice to Keeper in which to appeal. To ensure there is no confusion, the entire team within ZZPS have been reminded of the correct process and procedure.

    I hope that the above information is of assistance to you.

    Since the investigation has been concluded, I shall now proceed to close the case."



    I contend that ZZPS have failed to ''ensure that the entire team within ZZPS have been reminded of the correct process and procedure''. Since they deal with over a million cases at any given time (that figure is correct from ZZPS themselves, from a source in the public domain) it is believed likely that their staff/computers are auto-rejecting appeals. It seems likely that little or no details or facts, or BPA Code of Practice rules, are being checked, in pursuit of a robo-debt collector model. Clearly, the writer of that email has not been re-trained.

    Is this the level that BPA AOS members are stooping to, prior to the new Bill going through Parliament next year?

    My MP will be hearing about this matter and I look forward to your considered reply, within 14 days please. I would like to be assured that the 'charge' has been cancelled, that ZZPS are required to apologise, and that they will now receive sanction points for the significant breach of ignoring clear BPA instructions and persisting with the same Code of Practice breach.

    If the recipient of this email at the BPA wrongly believes that an AOS member has 'discretion' to ignore an appeal from a registered keeper after a NTK, please do not handle my complaint and instead, I ask that you pass it to Mr Clark personally, please.

    kind regards,
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    So after that complaint, the BPA think it's OK because ZZPS ''made a mistake'' (again). Like in Dolly Peach's case, denying a POPLA code to a keeper appellant and pretending the only appeal window is 28 days from the windscreen PCN.

    Maybe they do this ALL THE TIME?

    You DEFINITELY need to raise this utter 'old boys network' scam with your MP.

    The BPA should be very ashamed.

    The pride of Haywards Heath...imagine WORKING for the BPA or IPC, supporting this rip off industry for a living?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 19-10-2017 at 12:20 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 19th Oct 17, 11:20 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    I will raise this with my MP.
    I will send her a letter. You are right, it is ridiculous.
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 19th Oct 17, 12:00 PM
    • 2,333 Posts
    • 2,838 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    to read before you send the letter ..... and include asking for support ....

    this is a copy of a post by Bargepole ....

    "Some action at last:

    http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html

    This Private Member's Bill has Government and cross-party support, and stands a good chance of making it into statute.

    The full text of the clauses will be published nearer the date of the second reading, but my sources tell me it's something we should support.



    good luck and well done

    Ralph
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 19th Oct 17, 12:20 PM
    • 1,262 Posts
    • 2,154 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    You really need to kick up a fuss with BPA. Write back to them detailing their own Code and the breaches of it and ask them to answer the question you asked about what they are doing to sanction the PPC for its persistent breaches of the compulsory code of practice.

    Para 22.2 of the Code has clearly been breached:
    You should tell motorists at what stage an independent appeal to POPLA becomes available.


    Also para 22.12:
    If you reject an appeal you must
    - tell the motorist how to make an appeal to POPLA
    and see also 22.12.1

    Para 2.5 (I've added the bold - it says sanctions will be applied, not may be:
    The Code explains in principle what we require from you and the sanctions you will incur if you do not meet these requirements. We also provide a consumer’s guide to the AOS to give the consumer a summary of the AOS service and principles.


    Para 4.1:
    Any organisation or person applying for BPA or AOS membership must
    - sign a declaration agreeing to keep to the Code and its principles
    - agree to keep appropriate records to show full and effective compliance with the Code requirements and to allow a full review of these records by the BPA if we make a reasonable request

    Say that you assume the declaration has been signed. The PPC cannot possibly be keeping proper records to show compliance, because this is the second time this very serious breach of the Code has been recorded, yet nothing has been done about it.

    Para 4.2:
    To stay a member of the BPA you must keep to the conditions of the Code. If you do not keep to the conditions of the Code we may take disciplinary action against you.
    What disciplinary action have they taken, given that the "retraining" ordered after the last identical breach has obviously been ineffective?

    Para 6.1:
    You must confirm to us that you have systems and procedures in place to make sure that substantial compliance with the Code is embedded within the culture of your organisation.
    Has the BPA satisfied itself that such systems and procedures are in place? If they are, why is this persistent breach of the code continuing?

    Para 6.3:
    We will audit you at least once a year. The audit will be done by our compliance team or our appointed auditors to check that you are keeping to the terms of the Code. If we find any non-compliance issues you must put them right within an agreed time. We will also record any complaints we receive about our members.
    What did the last audit reveal about keepers being refused POPLA codes?

    Para 6.5:
    Non-compliance with the Code will be dealt with and monitored through a scheme of sanctions. We will issue sanction points depending on the severity of the non-compliance. If you reach twelve points on your ‘membership licence’ in any twelve month period, we may refer you to the BPA Council for disciplinary action. The referral may result in your membership with the AOS and the BPA being suspended or terminated.
    What sanctions are going to be given to the PPC given its persistent breaches and its failure to address them?

    Para 6.6:
    If we find there has been a failure to comply with the Code, either during a complaint investigation or a compliance audit, you must make appropriate changes to your business operation to bring it into compliance. We will write to you asking for the changes to be made. This will be a formal request and we will give you a timescale for you to make the changes and send us evidence that you have done this. Depending on the nature and severity of the alleged Code breach, we may issue suspended Sanction Points and/or a formal letter of censure.
    Has the BPA requested such changes to address the issue of keepers being wrongly refused a POPLA appeal? Has the BPA satisfied itself that any changes have been made? Has the PPC probided evidence of the changes? Has a formal letter of censure been issued or have sanction points been imposed?

    Para 6.7:
    If you do not make the changes by the date given in the formal written request we will issue an appropriate sanction against your membership licence. If your licence reaches 12 points, we may suspend your membership of the AOS, and of the BPA.
    Any requested changes have clearly not been made. What sanctions are going to be issued?

    Para 6.8:
    If you do not comply with the Code you may be suspended or expelled immediately from the BPA. We would then start the disciplinary procedures set out in the BPA Code of Professional Conduct. This may happen when, in the opinion of the BPA Council, your failure to comply with the Code brings the BPA and its membership into disrepute.
    What steps is BPA going to take in light of the persistent failure by the PPC to comply with the Code?


    http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS_Code_of_Practice_October_2015_update_V6..pdf
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Oct 17, 5:28 PM
    • 50,691 Posts
    • 64,105 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Loki01, write a complaint to the BPA and copy it to David Dunford at the BPA, using LOC123's words and her exact blow-by-blow questions above. LOC123 has nailed the issues.

    Then, also send your MP the email complaint thread including the one you will be sending now, and ask the MP to support your line of questions to an (allegedly institutionally-biased in favour of parking firms) Trade Body who are showing themselves to be as useful and robust as a chocolate teapot.

    It is inexcusable that this second breach exposed on this forum, so soon after ZZPS were 'reminded' and they apparently paid lip-service to saying that all staff were being 'retrained' about keepers being allowed to appeal and be given a POPLA code.

    We KNOW this happened in Dolly Peach's case and we know that retraining was promised. Well, that retraining has failed.

    This cannot be swept under the carpet. Send LOC's email questions to the BPA and DVLA, and then print it all out or forward it all to your MP to show her the situation (all emails).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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