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  • FIRST POST
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 8th Sep 17, 11:36 PM
    • 59Posts
    • 15Thanks
    Loki01
    PCN Admin Centre help :(
    • #1
    • 8th Sep 17, 11:36 PM
    PCN Admin Centre help :( 8th Sep 17 at 11:36 PM
    Hello.

    So today I have received Notice to Keeper/Hirer dated from 5.9.2017. The windscreen notice was apparently issued on 31/7/2017 but I am not aware of it and so I couldnt pay the discounted fee (not that I would particularly wanted to). The creditor is Leeds Teaching Hospital. They havent included any pictures with the letter.
    Can somebody help with how to appeal and on what ground?

    Thank you
    Last edited by Loki01; 11-09-2017 at 6:50 PM.
Page 2
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 14th Sep 17, 11:01 AM
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    nosferatu1001
    What was the date of the NtK?
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 14th Sep 17, 11:04 AM
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    Loki01
    Sorry, created new post. The date was 05/09/2017
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Sep 17, 11:16 AM
    • 15,423 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    If the dates you have given are correct, then you need to complain to the BPA (cc to David Dunford of the DVLA) that you have been given insufficient time to make your appeal. Ask the BPA for sanction points be awarded against the hospital.

    Complaints to the BPA and DVLA can be emailed to:

    aos@britishparking.co.uk

    or (if posting)

    British Parking Association
    Stuart House
    41-43 Perrymount Road
    Haywards Heath
    West Sussex
    RH16 3BN

    and DVLA:

    FOI@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 14th Sep 17, 11:18 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    If the dates you have given are correct, then you need to complain to the BPA (cc to David Dunford of the DVLA) that you have been given insufficient time to make your appeal. Ask the BPA for sanction points be awarded against the hospital.

    Complaints to the BPA and DVLA can be emailed to:

    aos@britishparking.co.uk

    or (if posting)

    British Parking Association
    Stuart House
    41-43 Perrymount Road
    Haywards Heath
    West Sussex
    RH16 3BN

    and DVLA:

    FOI@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    What do I write to PCN Admin Centre?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Sep 17, 11:25 AM
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    Umkomaas
    What do I write to PCN Admin Centre?
    Originally posted by Loki01
    What do you think you should write when they've told you you're too late to appeal?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 14th Sep 17, 11:44 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    Ok, let me rephrase.
    Should I write a separate email to PCN Admin Centre and cc the BPA in and also write a complaint to BPA separately and cc PCN Admin Centre in?

    Are those grounds for a dismissal of the PCN?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 14th Sep 17, 12:33 PM
    • 823 Posts
    • 946 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    No such grounds exist. You seem to think this is a regulated process. Your reading of the newbies thread will have shown you this.

    You complain to the BPA, as told. and the DVLA, as told.
    They MUST accpet appeals from a keeper. An NtK dated 05.09.2017 means you have plenty of time.
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 14th Sep 17, 12:55 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    Is there a law I can quote that says I have 28 days?
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 14th Sep 17, 1:09 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    Dear Sirs,

    PCN number: .....
    I would like to raise a complaint against Leeds Teaching Hospitals that is represented by PCN Admin Centre on the ground that they have not allowed a sufficient time to appeal the PCN as the keeper of the car. As they are a member of BPA and therefore must allow 28 days from the date of the Notice to Keeper.

    I have enclosed the Notice to Keeper which is dated 05/09/2017. My attempt to receive a POPLA code (the appeal to PCN where by no means I have fully stated all the reasons I do not believe they have the right to claim the PCN from me) dates 11/09/2017. Enclosed is also a part the Notice of Keeper where it is clearly stated that I, as a keeper of the car, have 28 days to appeal. I have stated that I was not aware of any Notice to Driver and for these cases exactly, the code of practice applies. They are stating that they are pursuing this notice under POFA 2012 but they do breach its code.

    I therefore request that you advice the company that I should receive the POPLA as soon as possible. !The refusal to issue a POPLA code breaches the BPA Code of Practice, and this renders them liable to prosecution under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Practices 2008 (the specific offense being that they have failed to comply with a code of conduct to which you have committed).
    I also ask that sanction points are awarded against the hospital.

    Thank you
    Yours Sincerely
    .....

    Is this ok?
    Last edited by Loki01; 14-09-2017 at 1:37 PM.
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 14th Sep 17, 2:09 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    What can I do if they simply refuse to give me the code? Can I complaint to POPLA anyway?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Sep 17, 2:13 PM
    • 15,423 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    Send the letter, see how they respond. POPLA won't deal with the complaint.

    There's no Law that dictates 28 days, just the BPA Code of Practice, which you have quoted.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 14th Sep 17, 2:16 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    Thank you, this is so stressful for me.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Sep 17, 3:08 PM
    • 51,440 Posts
    • 65,043 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hang on I am wring you a better email!! Dolly Peach's thread is like yours.

    Wait a mo.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Sep 17, 3:28 PM
    • 51,440 Posts
    • 65,043 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Same as here, this will be fun, seeing as the PCN Admin Centre were reminded on or before 4th September, that they can't do this:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72999307#post72999307

    So send this to the BPA, and David Dunford at the DVLA (you've already been given their email addresses) and attach a copy of the NTK and forward their email:




    Dear Mr Clark and Mr Dunford,

    FORMAL COMPLAINT - PCN XXXXXXX - PCN Admin Centre (ZZPS) persistently refusing to consider in-time appeals from registered keepers


    On 8th September, I received a Notice to Keeper/Hirer out of the blue, from PCN Admin Centre, dated from 5.9.2017.

    A copy is attached to this email.

    A windscreen notice was apparently issued on 31/7/2017 but I am not aware of it, and the driver has not been identified and will not be. The creditor is Leeds Teaching Hospital. There were no photogaphs with the letter, nor proof that any PCN was served at all back in July, nor pictures of the terms on signage. As registered keeper, I appealed about this charge in good faith, as soon as I got the NTK, confident that I had 28 days to appeal. PCN Admin Centre (ZZPS) have denied me a POPLA code - something that I am told is becoming something of a pattern with ZZPS.

    Their reply was curt and harassing and flies in the face of recent 're-training' that I believe ZZPS staff have had as a result of another complaint just a fortnight ago:



    ''Good Morning,

    Thank you for your recent email.

    Please be advised that we have been instructed to pursue this outstanding parking charge notice on behalf of our client.

    To confirm, our clients signage is fully approved by the British Parking Association (BPA).

    Our client is relying on POFA 2012 to pursue this PCN and as no appeal was received within the time period stipulated, it is now too late to appeal further. A POPLA code will not be issued at this time.

    Photographic evidence was requested and has been uploaded to ipaymypcn.net

    We shall note your comments but to inform you without payment, the account will be left to progress accordingly.''



    May I say, how dare they? I am extremely distressed by this matter and their conduct, and am supported by online forum help to write this complaint. The regular posters pointed out this thread where the PCN Admin Centre/ZZPS did the same thing to another poster:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72999307#post72999307

    How many consumers must be receiving this horrendously wrong response and probably paying, not realising that they certainly do have a right to appeal as keeper? I cannot believe this has only happened to two people who happen to have sought online advice from a forum. This is reportedly indicative of what ZZPS appear to consider to be normal conduct; indeed it is alleged by sources close to the recent notorious Indigo case (subject to an appeal currently) that ZZPS had withheld POPLA codes from some of the appellants in the Nurses' case in Wales. This is indefensible and wholly unacceptable , and yet here we are again.

    What are the BPA and DVLA going to do about ZZPS actively ignoring your clear instructions after the investigation into that previous MSE forum case?
    This was the BPA response from Steve Clark, via Emma-Louise:


    "Thank you for your patience whilst this matter was investigated.

    I have received a response from ZZPS who advised that they identified the error on their end and the appeal was considered and formally rejected on 23/08/2017. They advised that a POPLA code was provided to you within the rejection.

    ZZPS have addressed the error with the agent concerned to ensure that they understand the Registered Keeper has 28 days from the Notice to Keeper in which to appeal. To ensure there is no confusion, the entire team within ZZPS have been reminded of the correct process and procedure.

    I hope that the above information is of assistance to you.

    Since the investigation has been concluded, I shall now proceed to close the case."



    I contend that ZZPS have failed to ''ensure that the entire team within ZZPS have been reminded of the correct process and procedure''. Since they deal with over a million cases at any given time (that figure is correct from ZZPS themselves, from a source in the public domain) it is believed likely that their staff/computers are auto-rejecting appeals. It seems likely that little or no details or facts, or BPA Code of Practice rules, are being checked, in pursuit of a robo-debt collector model. Clearly, the writer of that email has not been re-trained.

    Is this the level that BPA AOS members are stooping to, prior to the new Bill going through Parliament next year?

    My MP will be hearing about this matter and I look forward to your considered reply, within 14 days please. I would like to be assured that the 'charge' has been cancelled, that ZZPS are required to apologise, and that they will now receive sanction points for the significant breach of ignoring clear BPA instructions and persisting with the same Code of Practice breach.

    If the recipient of this email at the BPA wrongly believes that an AOS member has 'discretion' to ignore an appeal from a registered keeper after a NTK, please do not handle my complaint and instead, I ask that you pass it to Mr Clark personally, please.

    kind regards,
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 14-09-2017 at 3:35 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 18th Sep 17, 10:57 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    So I have received these two emails from them today:

    We refer your email of 11 September 2017, which we are treating as a formal section 10 Notice (“the Notice”) under the Data Protection Act (“the Act”).

    Please accept this response as our formal acknowledgment and response to the Notice.

    You have provided no justification for the Notice. The processing of your data is warranted.


    In any event, section 10(1) of the Act does not apply in circumstances where Schedule 2, paragraphs 1 to 4 of the Act are met, accordingly, we are permitted to continue to process your data at this stage.


    If this is not clear, we suggest you seek legal advice.


    AND this one:



    Good morning,

    Thank you for your email which has been noted accordingly.


    Please be advised, the photographic evidence is available for you to view on www.ipaymypcn.net with your VRM and PCN number.


    A POPLA code may be issued if an appeal is made by the driver within the first 28 days of the Notice being issued, as no appeal was made within this time frame, the correct procedure has been followed.


    If you were not the driver you are still within the time frame to transfer liability to them.


    If the liability is not transferred and no payment is made, the account will be left to progress accordingly.


    Kind regards,
    Leo Feather






    I have forwarded the reply to DVLA again with the nice letter drafted by Coupon Mad. What does that first email mean? Can someone help me with a response to them?


    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Sep 17, 11:07 AM
    • 15,423 Posts
    • 24,121 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    What does that first email mean? Can someone help me with a response to them?
    Have you read the parts of the legislation they are quoting back to you? How does that impact your case?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 18th Sep 17, 11:10 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    I dont know where the legislation even is. What legislation are they actually quoting? POFA? If so, I thought the whole parking is quoted under section 4. Could you just help me with this one? I am not that great at reading law lingo.
    Last edited by Loki01; 18-09-2017 at 11:13 AM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Sep 17, 11:15 AM
    • 15,423 Posts
    • 24,121 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I am not that great at reading law lingo.
    Nor am I - I'm not a lawyer - but I plough through it enough times so that I do get an understanding.

    What legislation are they actually quoting?
    The same one you quoted at them, which has sparked their response. The Data Protection Act.

    I dont know where the legislation even is.
    Is Google not working for you?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Loki01
    • By Loki01 18th Sep 17, 11:17 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Loki01
    I cant find section 2 under parking hence I do not know what to read. I have googled, thank you very much but I cannot find anything like this.

    This is really not helping.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Sep 17, 11:28 AM
    • 15,423 Posts
    • 24,121 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I cant find section 2 under parking
    They're not quoting 'Section 2', they're quoting 'Schedule 2'. The DPA isn't about parking, it's about handling of personal data. You're not likely to find 'parking' mentioned anywhere in the Act.

    I did one single entry Google search 'The Data Protection Act' and it produced this. Scroll to near the foot of the page and you'll see a link to Schedule 2.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/contents
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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