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    • TheEnergyThread
    • By TheEnergyThread 8th Sep 17, 10:56 PM
    • 20Posts
    • 8Thanks
    TheEnergyThread
    Question about insurance
    • #1
    • 8th Sep 17, 10:56 PM
    Question about insurance 8th Sep 17 at 10:56 PM
    I am currently deciding what to do, I have a car that’s MOT runs out in January & my insurance runs out in February. Now I want to know if I can continue to pay insurance for that month but not drive the car due to no MOT until my insurance runs out then sell the car without MOT. Could I do this or would my insurance go VOID the moment I have no MOT?
Page 2
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 9th Sep 17, 9:00 AM
    • 230 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    Yes it states using, A car isn't being used if it is sitting idle on a road
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    But you said driving, are we back tracking?

    Insurance states using too, so can you park a car on a road without insurance?
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 9th Sep 17, 9:08 AM
    • 4,601 Posts
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    glentoran99
    But you said driving, are we back tracking?

    Insurance states using too, so can you park a car on a road without insurance?
    Originally posted by Warwick Hunt


    No im not back tracking, using and driving are 1 in the same, Insurance, I don't know, ive never asked but I don't believe so as its a different issue.


    I can only base my answer on what is specifically said on the gov.uk website, and what the DVLA told me personally that my car could be kept on a public road while the MOT certificate was expired, but I must not use it other than to drive to a pre booked appointment or to get it repaired


    I have this in writing from the DVLA
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 9th Sep 17, 9:10 AM
    • 230 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    No im not back tracking, using and driving are 1 in the same, Insurance, I don't know, ive never asked but I don't believe so as its a different issue.


    I can only base my answer on what is specifically said on the gov.uk website, and what the DVLA told me personally that my car could be kept on a public road while the MOT certificate was expired, but I must not use it other than to drive to a pre booked appointment or to get it repaired


    I have this in writing from the DVLA
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    No they're not, you don't have to be in a vehicle to use it.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 9th Sep 17, 9:13 AM
    • 4,601 Posts
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    glentoran99
    No they're not, you don't have to be in a vehicle to use it.
    Originally posted by Warwick Hunt


    You'll have to explain that one, How do you use a vehicle without driving?
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 9th Sep 17, 9:16 AM
    • 230 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    You'll have to explain that one, How do you use a vehicle without driving?
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    Owning it for business purposes would be one way.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 9th Sep 17, 9:19 AM
    • 2,235 Posts
    • 1,434 Thanks
    Car 54
    Section 47 Road Traffic Act say use not drive.
    Originally posted by Warwick Hunt
    But, but ... "Pumbien v Vines

    (1995) The Times June 14 Queen's Bench Divisional Court

    A motor car parked on a road was being used on the road for the purposes of sections 47 and 143 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 even if it was totally immobilised and could only be moved by being dragged away, and, therefore, required both a valid MOT certificate and an insurance policy.

    The Court so held in dismissing an appeal by way of case stated by Andee Pumbien against his conviction of offences of using a motor vehicle on a road without either a valid test certificate or insurance policy contrary to sections 47(1) and 143(1) of the 1988 act."
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 9th Sep 17, 9:22 AM
    • 2,235 Posts
    • 1,434 Thanks
    Car 54
    You'll have to explain that one, How do you use a vehicle without driving?
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    I use mine to store stuff. Others use theirs to impress the neighbours.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 9th Sep 17, 9:32 AM
    • 1,370 Posts
    • 910 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Could you quote the legislation for me?


    Its an offense to drive without MOT, not to keep it on the road


    "You can’t drive your vehicle on the road if the MOT has run out. You can be prosecuted if caught."


    There is nothing about keeping it on the road, the law states, using and driving
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    Think logically.

    Why would the law use the terms 'using' and 'driving', if they just meant driving?

    It being kept on the road is using. You will no doubt keep your things in the car - including your fuel, so therefore you are using your car even if it is kept on the road, idle.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 9th Sep 17, 9:41 AM
    • 4,601 Posts
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    glentoran99
    Think logically.

    Why would the law use the terms 'using' and 'driving', if they just meant driving?

    It being kept on the road is using. You will no doubt keep your things in the car - including your fuel, so therefore you are using your car even if it is kept on the road, idle.
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    The law quoted says using, the link I posted from .gov.uk says driving


    I see a court case has been posted above, however as I say I am basing what I say on what the DVLA told me when asked
    • Aretnap
    • By Aretnap 9th Sep 17, 9:45 AM
    • 2,724 Posts
    • 2,164 Thanks
    Aretnap
    I can only base my answer on what is specifically said on the gov.uk website, and what the DVLA told me personally that my car could be kept on a public road while the MOT certificate was expired, but I must not use it other than to drive to a pre booked appointment or to get it repaired


    I have this in writing from the DVLA
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    The DVLA don't deal with MOTs. Even if they did, the opinion of some bloke at the DVLA wouldn't trump that of the High Court, which has repeatedly ruled that a car parked on the road is being "used", and requires MOT and insurance (eg Eliot v Grey, 1960, Gosling v Howard 1975, Pumbien v Vines 1995).

    I would imagine that in practice if the OP lets his MOT lapse then his chances of getting into trouble for leaving it on the road outside his house are fairly slim (assuming it remains taxed and insured)- but they're not zero.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 9th Sep 17, 9:50 AM
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    glentoran99
    The DVLA don't deal with MOTs. Even if they did, the opinion of some bloke at the DVLA wouldn't trump that of the High Court, which has repeatedly ruled that a car parked on the road is being "used", and requires MOT and insurance (eg Eliot v Grey, 1960, Gosling v Howard 1975, Pumbien v Vines 1995).

    I would imagine that in practice if the OP lets his MOT lapse then his chances of getting into trouble for leaving it on the road outside his house are fairly slim (assuming it remains taxed and insured)- but they're not zero.
    Originally posted by Aretnap
    that's strange as that's who MOTS my car, and who I pay my money too
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 9th Sep 17, 9:54 AM
    • 230 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    that's strange as that's who MOTS my car, and who I pay my money too
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    The DVLA mot your car?
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 9th Sep 17, 9:56 AM
    • 230 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    The law quoted says using, the link I posted from .gov.uk says driving


    I see a court case has been posted above, however as I say I am basing what I say on what the DVLA told me when asked
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    Read Section 47 RTA that's what covers it not the dot gov site.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 9th Sep 17, 10:10 AM
    • 4,601 Posts
    • 3,599 Thanks
    glentoran99
    The DVLA mot your car?
    Originally posted by Warwick Hunt

    Apologies, should say the DVA
    Last edited by glentoran99; 09-09-2017 at 10:16 AM.
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 9th Sep 17, 10:28 AM
    • 4,021 Posts
    • 5,092 Thanks
    jack_pott
    That's very strange because to get tax you need to have it MOT'd and insured


    So how can you be refused insurance without tax when you need insurance to get it?
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    I don't know, but I had to wait on the phone for a very long time whilst they checked all the way back to the underwriter.
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 9th Sep 17, 10:33 AM
    • 4,021 Posts
    • 5,092 Thanks
    jack_pott
    A motor car parked on a road was being used on the road for the purposes of sections 47 and 143 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 even if it was totally immobilised and could only be moved by being dragged away, and, therefore, required both a valid MOT certificate and an insurance policy.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    So how does the law define a motor vehicle? How would you go about de-registering this at the DVLA without scrapping it?
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 9th Sep 17, 10:47 AM
    • 230 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    So how does the law define a motor vehicle? How would you go about de-registering this at the DVLA without scrapping it?
    Originally posted by jack_pott
    Have a look at Section 136 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.
    • TheEnergyThread
    • By TheEnergyThread 9th Sep 17, 11:16 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    TheEnergyThread
    Think about it though an MOT is only tested to ensure the car is fit/safe to be driven on UK roads? It’s hardly going to be unsafe just parked there. Now the Tax does not run out until the MOT has expired so would not need to tax it as you do this in advance anywhere before the tax runs out. Regarding the Insurance, the vehicle would still be taxed and on a public road idle & not being used, just because it’s not in use does not necessarily mean that it is automatically protected against theft? So the insurance would not be useless & unnecessary and still should continue. There is nothing that I can see in my insurance documents to suggest otherwise?
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 9th Sep 17, 11:48 AM
    • 4,021 Posts
    • 5,092 Thanks
    jack_pott
    Have a look at Section 136 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.
    Originally posted by Warwick Hunt
    "In this Act......."motor vehicle" means a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on roads..."

    So when is a vehicle not a motor vehicle?
    When it runs out of petrol?
    When the battery is flat?
    When a con rod is broken?
    When the engine is taken out?
    When it was never intended for use on the roads in the first place?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Sep 17, 11:53 AM
    • 32,808 Posts
    • 16,840 Thanks
    Quentin
    ..... Regarding the Insurance, the vehicle would still be taxed and on a public road idle & not being used, just because it’s not in use does not necessarily mean that it is automatically protected against theft? So the insurance would not be useless & unnecessary and still should continue. There is nothing that I can see in my insurance documents to suggest otherwise?
    Originally posted by TheEnergyThread
    Irrespective of what your insurance docs say, you do need to have your car insured at all times unless it is sorn. Legally you just need third party insurance - though comprehensive is usually cheaper these days
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