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    • himynameisaaron
    • By himynameisaaron 8th Sep 17, 4:21 PM
    • 168Posts
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    himynameisaaron
    Brother problems
    • #1
    • 8th Sep 17, 4:21 PM
    Brother problems 8th Sep 17 at 4:21 PM
    Hi

    Had a conversation with my brother today regarding him purchasing a car, he is currently at the dealership with my mum and started asking me questions like "Is it okay to put you down as a family member?", and about work income and how much I receive each month between my two jobs. I then started to be suspicious because he wanted to know my sort code and account number.

    Now, would this be for a regular Direct Debit whereby if he fails to make a payment then he will come to me or would it be just a quick credit check? I wish I never gave him all those details now because he never told me what he was doing with the bank details, so am not really happy.

    I don't want to ask him why he needs all those details without wanting a second opinion first.
    Last edited by himynameisaaron; 08-09-2017 at 4:26 PM.
Page 4
    • borkid
    • By borkid 9th Sep 17, 1:01 PM
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    borkid
    I have taken a look at OB, and see no transactions nor withdrawals being made. His paperwork is lying around in the kitchen while he takes a shower and it seems Bristol Street Motors have taken payment of £200 from his 16 digit card number, but doesn't say what for on the receipt.

    It also doesn't say anything about me on the paper work.

    Does anyone know when you first buy a car, do they just take an initial payment?
    Originally posted by himynameisaaron
    When hubby and I bought a car I paid the intial deposit with my CC and then the DD came from his account.
    • borkid
    • By borkid 9th Sep 17, 1:13 PM
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    borkid
    As I said before, if all Aaron has given is his sort code and account number, that in itself is not enough to set up a direct debit. Otherwise anyone I have ever given a cheque to could have cleared my account. I do think there's an element of scaremongering going on here which isn't particularly helpful.
    Originally posted by elsien
    Having said that the fact that he lives with his mum means that she will have access to an awful lot more, unless of course he keeps all his financial info etc under lock and key which I doubt.

    I, in these circumstances would be inclined to open a new/another account and not tell the family I'd done it. Money can be transferred from 1st account to 2nd as it is paid in. I'd also change all passwords pin numbers etc.
    • Nicki
    • By Nicki 9th Sep 17, 1:19 PM
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    Nicki
    As I said before, if all Aaron has given is his sort code and account number, that in itself is not enough to set up a direct debit. Otherwise anyone I have ever given a cheque to could have cleared my account. I do think there's an element of scaremongering going on here which isn't particularly helpful.
    Originally posted by elsien
    I've never had to give any details other than this to set up direct debits from my own bank account. The form will have needed a signature but the brother undoubtedly would sign in OP's name and the bank would not necessarily pick this up if they were approximately similar.

    What extra safeguards do you think are in place when you set up a DD by filling out a third party's payment form?
    • Nicki
    • By Nicki 9th Sep 17, 1:21 PM
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    Nicki
    Here's a link to the only info needed to set up a DD all of which OPs brother now has

    https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/FAQs/pages/settingupadirectdebit.aspx
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 9th Sep 17, 1:33 PM
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    Pollycat
    Having said that the fact that he lives with his mum means that she will have access to an awful lot more, unless of course he keeps all his financial info etc under lock and key which I doubt.
    Originally posted by borkid
    The situation is complicated in that Aaron's Mum is his appointee for one of the benefits he receives (which I find odd as I thought an appointee was for if someone can't manage their own affairs so I'd expect someone to be an appointee for both benefits or none as you can either manage your own affairs or you can't).

    https://www.gov.uk/become-appointee-for-someone-claiming-benefits
    Become an appointee for someone claiming benefits

    You can apply for the right to deal with the benefits of someone who can’t manage their own affairs because they’re mentally incapable or severely disabled.
    Apparently, his JSA goes directly to him but PIP is paid into his Mum's Post Office account.
    • ViolaLass
    • By ViolaLass 9th Sep 17, 2:14 PM
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    ViolaLass
    Surely, surely a credit check can't be run without written consent (if the person concerned is not present/on the phone)?

    In which case, either the dealer has been naughty and need to be reported or your brother forged your signature.

    I would ask the dealership for the paperwork relating to the attempt to make you the guarantor.

    This situation has not been resolved.
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 9th Sep 17, 2:22 PM
    • 3,087 Posts
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    LilElvis
    As I said before, if all Aaron has given is his sort code and account number, that in itself is not enough to set up a direct debit. Otherwise anyone I have ever given a cheque to could have cleared my account. I do think there's an element of scaremongering going on here which isn't particularly helpful.
    Originally posted by elsien
    As his brother he will also have all of the other details needed to do other things - like applying for loans and credit cards. He knows his address, date of birth, mothers maiden name. I bet he has access to old payslips so can get his NI number too. The brother has already shown himself to be devious and untrustworthy and obviously capable of fraud. I don't think it's scaremongering at all given the circumstances.
    • himynameisaaron
    • By himynameisaaron 9th Sep 17, 4:57 PM
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    himynameisaaron
    As his brother he will also have all of the other details needed to do other things - like applying for loans and credit cards. He knows his address, date of birth, mothers maiden name. I bet he has access to old payslips so can get his NI number too. The brother has already shown himself to be devious and untrustworthy and obviously capable of fraud. I don't think it's scaremongering at all given the circumstances.
    Originally posted by LilElvis
    No he doesn't.
    • borkid
    • By borkid 9th Sep 17, 5:01 PM
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    borkid
    The situation is complicated in that Aaron's Mum is his appointee for one of the benefits he receives (which I find odd as I thought an appointee was for if someone can't manage their own affairs so I'd expect someone to be an appointee for both benefits or none as you can either manage your own affairs or you can't).

    https://www.gov.uk/become-appointee-for-someone-claiming-benefits
    Apparently, his JSA goes directly to him but PIP is paid into his Mum's Post Office account.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    True but if they wanted to defraud him from his own bank account ie the one where JSA is paid into at least opening another account would mitigate any potential loses. Re mother having PIP paid directly, as others have said he should seek a third party to help.
    • borkid
    • By borkid 9th Sep 17, 5:03 PM
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    borkid
    No he doesn't.
    Originally posted by himynameisaaron
    But does you mum have access to your NI number? After what has happened I would consider it the same.
    • himynameisaaron
    • By himynameisaaron 9th Sep 17, 5:09 PM
    • 168 Posts
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    himynameisaaron
    For the record, I don't receive Job Seekers Allowance no longer as I'm working over 16 hours.
    • madvixen
    • By madvixen 9th Sep 17, 5:17 PM
    • 550 Posts
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    madvixen
    Aaron,

    It may have been that with your brother being in the Army then he had to have a guarantor. I had a similar situation with Vauxhall (I'm a military wife) whereby my hubby had to be my guarantor as we move around so much. I was extremely angry at this but that's for another thread.

    However, your brother has no right to put you down as a guarantor without your permission and he should know better than that. Please keep an eye on your account and let your bank know if you see anything unusual
    • barbiedoll
    • By barbiedoll 9th Sep 17, 10:30 PM
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    barbiedoll
    Sometimes things are left best said than unsaid, therefore your sentiments on me being incredibly naive on giving my bank and work details, I do have a habit of doing things before thinking of the implications that would be involved and for that, I'm truly an idiot and will make myself more self-aware in the future.
    Originally posted by himynameisaaron
    I don't think you're an "idiot", at least, no more so than many of us on here. This is a money saving site and lots of members are only here because of some silly decisions in the past (myself included!)

    I do think that you need to keep a very close eye on your family though, who seem to have no qualms about taking advantage of your good (and slightly impulsive) nature. Unfortunately, the world is full of chancers and money grabbers, just because they're family, doesn't mean they won't be happy to relieve you of your cash.

    It would certainly be a good idea to open another bank account, where you can get your wages and any benefits paid into it, and where the only person who controls it is you. And remember, no-one needs your bank details unless it it to enable YOU to purchase something, or for someone to pay money to you. Anyone buying a car, or anything else, certainly won't need your bank details, even if they say they are buying it for you.

    You sound like an intelligent lad, you had the good sense to come on here and ask, because you thought that something wasn't quite right.
    You can come on here anytime to ask advice, if anyone wants your details or money that bad, they can wait until you are happy to go ahead.

    A lot of us have learned that lesson the hard way!
    "I may be many things but not being indiscreet isn't one of them"
    • Ames
    • By Ames 9th Sep 17, 10:41 PM
    • 16,269 Posts
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    Ames
    I don't think you're an "idiot", at least, no more so than many of us on here. This is a money saving site and lots of members are only here because of some silly decisions in the past (myself included!)

    I do think that you need to keep a very close eye on your family though, who seem to have no qualms about taking advantage of your good (and slightly impulsive) nature. Unfortunately, the world is full of chancers and money grabbers, just because they're family, doesn't mean they won't be happy to relieve you of your cash.

    It would certainly be a good idea to open another bank account, where you can get your wages and any benefits paid into it, and where the only person who controls it is you. And remember, no-one needs your bank details unless it it to enable YOU to purchase something, or for someone to pay money to you. Anyone buying a car, or anything else, certainly won't need your bank details, even if they say they are buying it for you.

    You sound like an intelligent lad, you had the good sense to come on here and ask, because you thought that something wasn't quite right.
    You can come on here anytime to ask advice, if anyone wants your details or money that bad, they can wait until you are happy to go ahead.

    A lot of us have learned that lesson the hard way!
    Originally posted by barbiedoll
    He can't do that while his mum is his appointee for benefits. The DWP aren't even supposed to talk to him about his claim without her knowledge. He needs to change that before he can change the bank account for benefits because as far as the DWP are concerned he's not capable of managing his financial affairs.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.

    Reading the alphabet in 2017. 21/100
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 10th Sep 17, 12:42 AM
    • 2,759 Posts
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    gettingtheresometime
    Surely, surely a credit check can't be run without written consent (if the person concerned is not present/on the phone)?

    In which case, either the dealer has been naughty and need to be reported or your brother forged your signature.

    I would ask the dealership for the paperwork relating to the attempt to make you the guarantor.

    This situation has not been resolved.
    Originally posted by ViolaLass
    Especially if the brother has pretended to be the OP.

    Yes I know I've a cynical mind.............
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - the Argos Card!
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 10th Sep 17, 8:02 AM
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    Pollycat
    He can't do that while his mum is his appointee for benefits. The DWP aren't even supposed to talk to him about his claim without her knowledge. He needs to change that before he can change the bank account for benefits because as far as the DWP are concerned he's not capable of managing his financial affairs.
    Originally posted by Ames
    Well, the upside of Aaron's Mum being his appointee, if
    She's a fraudulent liar.
    Originally posted by himynameisaaron
    by exaggerating his condition in this way:
    Upon invitation to the assessment many weeks later she found the cheek to self-diagnose me with anxieties which I don't even suffer from. You either get assessed and diagnosed by your GP, otherwise you don't have it. Then began kicking me gently with her foot when I said the wrong thing than what she wanted me to say just she can pull the wool over the assessors eyes.

    She would have said things like:
    "Aaron needs constant supervision when pouring a cup of coffee in case he burned his hand" or "He struggles to understand how to read cooking instructions". Fair enough I have autism but she takes things too far sometimes.
    Originally posted by himynameisaaron
    then it will she who will be held accountable for any overpayment as a result of false declarations.

    If Aaron decides to stop his Mum being his appointee and gets his benefits paid to himself, it would be a good idea to be sure that he is not receiving more in benefits than he should be because of what a 'fraudulent liar' has told DWP.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 10th Sep 17, 10:16 AM
    • 15,064 Posts
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    elsien
    If Aaron's mum was just after his money, would she not already be charging him keep instead of him living there free though? There are two sides to every story and as always on forums we are just hearing the one.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 10th Sep 17, 10:37 AM
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    Pollycat
    If Aaron's mum was just after his money, would she not already be charging him keep instead of him living there free though? There are two sides to every story and as always on forums we are just hearing the one.
    Originally posted by elsien
    She may have exaggerated his condition to get more money for Aaron's benefit rather than for her own benefit but in the OP's own words 'she's a fraudulent liar'.
    If she's told assessors that his condition is worse than it really is that may well be benefit fraud.
    And that is worrying.
    • Top Girl
    • By Top Girl 10th Sep 17, 12:31 PM
    • 1,080 Posts
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    Top Girl
    Things I would do:

    Get a new, online bank account. Don't disclose your sign in or bank details to your mum or brother.

    Get your own payments paid into there, all of them, tell your mum you're doing it to manage your money better. Ask for an independent DWP assessment if she refuses.

    Agree an amount of board/lodge with your mum and pay her that.

    Speak to your social worker, support worker, someone who is on your side about all this.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 10th Sep 17, 12:53 PM
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    Pollycat
    Things I would do:

    Get a new, online bank account. Don't disclose your sign in or bank details to your mum or brother.

    Get your own payments paid into there, all of them, tell your mum you're doing it to manage your money better. Ask for an independent DWP assessment if she refuses.

    Agree an amount of board/lodge with your mum and pay her that.

    Speak to your social worker, support worker, someone who is on your side about all this.
    Originally posted by Top Girl
    The OP's Mum is his appointee for his PIP.

    Before he can do anything about changing where his benefits are going, he would have to get DWP to change that.
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