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  • FIRST POST
    • tiptop77
    • By tiptop77 8th Sep 17, 4:20 PM
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    tiptop77
    Question on tradesman labour charges outside item guarantee period
    • #1
    • 8th Sep 17, 4:20 PM
    Question on tradesman labour charges outside item guarantee period 8th Sep 17 at 4:20 PM
    I'm a tradesman and fitted some items for a customer in their house 2 years ago. There is no issue with my own workmanship, which I guarantee for a year (but will try and sort out any rare issues longer than that on a case-by-case basis). Most materials that I fit also have a 1 year guarantee as standard but the particular ones in this case have a free extended manufacturer warranty of 5 years.

    One of these items has gone faulty after 2 years, so under the normal manufacturer's terms and conditions the customer would contact them directly to obtain a free replacement and the customer would just pay us for our labour if we were needed to swap any items over. However, unfortunately in this case the customer is (and always has been) particularly difficult. He is refusing to 'go to the trouble' of contacting the manufacturer and wants us to deal with it. I'm perfectly willing to contact the manufacturer for him and get a replacement sent to him, but he also wants us to go back to his property to fit the new one free of charge. The location is not in our usual area and is nearly 2 hour's drive away each way so while I would usually pop in to a local customer to fit the item as general customer service I don't feel inclined to help this particular customer any further than I absolutely have to, due to both the distances involved and the terrible bullying attitude that seems to be standard practice for this guy.

    Am I obligated to go back to his house free of charge to fit replacements supplied under a manufacturer's extended warranty once my original 1 year workmanship guarantee has expired? Surely a tradesman can't be expected to provide free labour for however long a manufacturer decides to offer extra guarantees for (up to 25 years in the case of some building materials)?
Page 1
    • Lomast
    • By Lomast 8th Sep 17, 4:37 PM
    • 349 Posts
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    Lomast
    • #2
    • 8th Sep 17, 4:37 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Sep 17, 4:37 PM
    Did you supply the items and fit or did the customer supply and you fit?

    This makes a big difference as if you supplied then your legal obligations out weigh an guarantees you give

    • bris
    • By bris 8th Sep 17, 7:42 PM
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    bris
    • #3
    • 8th Sep 17, 7:42 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Sep 17, 7:42 PM
    You can ignore the warranty if you want to be as difficult as him. Make him get an independent report that the item is inherently faulty at time of purchase, that's all you need to do at this stage. That's if you supplied and fitted.


    If you just fitted the item then tell him to take it up with the manufacturer. You don't need to do anything in this scenario.


    You are only obliged to fit the item for free if they can prove you are liable as the fitting would be seen as a consequential loss that you would be liable for.
    To get to this stage though as I said above they would need to take court action to force you.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 8th Sep 17, 7:47 PM
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    scd3scd4
    • #4
    • 8th Sep 17, 7:47 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Sep 17, 7:47 PM
    Wish I knew more tradesmen's like you. I had one for a few years. Worth he's weight in gold but returned to Latvia when he's wife died.


    Some customers are not worth having he use to say to me. ;-]


    There is no way in my view he can make you refit it for free. Maybe yes do the decent thing and get a replacement sent to him and then call it a day. Forget about him. He is too far and that's that.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 08-09-2017 at 7:58 PM.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 9th Sep 17, 4:54 PM
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    unholyangel
    • #5
    • 9th Sep 17, 4:54 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Sep 17, 4:54 PM
    As above, if the goods didn't conform to contract and you supplied them then you would be liable to the customer for any costs involved in refitting (such as postage or labour).

    However, unless the customer has moved home since you sold him the goods, how far away he is shouldn't come into it. If he really was too far away then you should have had this in your mind at the time of entering the contract (that you may need to return if something went wrong with the goods or service) and refused the job.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 9th Sep 17, 6:21 PM
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    scd3scd4
    • #6
    • 9th Sep 17, 6:21 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Sep 17, 6:21 PM
    As above, if the goods didn't conform to contract and you supplied them then you would be liable to the customer for any costs involved in refitting (such as postage or labour).

    However, unless the customer has moved home since you sold him the goods, how far away he is shouldn't come into it. If he really was too far away then you should have had this in your mind at the time of entering the contract (that you may need to return if something went wrong with the goods or service) and refused the job.
    Originally posted by unholyangel

    If you fit a part and it fails due to no fault of your own under warranty you are under no obligation to refit it for free. Do people really think the manufacture will reimburse the builder. Sent him the part and move on. Honestly some posts sound great but are meaningless.


    He never said that he was not returning because of distance. Sometimes it does not matter who's right if the job is fast, local and a good customer but does when the customer is ungrateful and far.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 09-09-2017 at 6:47 PM.
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 9th Sep 17, 6:45 PM
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    C_Mababejive
    • #7
    • 9th Sep 17, 6:45 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Sep 17, 6:45 PM
    Just blank him. The item is out of guarantee. I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole as he sounds like bad news however if he wants you to undertake work then he needs to pay you the standard rates in advance with this one.
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
    • bris
    • By bris 9th Sep 17, 6:48 PM
    • 7,033 Posts
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    bris
    • #8
    • 9th Sep 17, 6:48 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Sep 17, 6:48 PM
    If you fit a part and it fails due to no fault of your own under warranty you are under no obligation to refit it for free. Do people really think the manufacture will reimburse the builder. Sent him the part and move on. Honestly some posts sound great but are meaningless.


    He never said that he was not returning because of distance. Sometimes it does not matter who's right if the job is fast and local but does when the customer is ungrateful and far.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    We are not talking about warranty we are talking about a consumers statutory rights. You should really look up and read them as your the one with the meaningless post.
    • z1a
    • By z1a 9th Sep 17, 7:05 PM
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    z1a
    • #9
    • 9th Sep 17, 7:05 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Sep 17, 7:05 PM
    Just blank him. The item is out of guarantee. I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole as he sounds like bad news however if he wants you to undertake work then he needs to pay you the standard rates in advance with this one.
    Originally posted by C_Mababejive
    NO, it isn't out of guarantee.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 9th Sep 17, 7:16 PM
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    scd3scd4
    NO, it isn't out of guarantee.
    Originally posted by z1a

    You are right...........its in the manufactures guarantee but NOT the builders/fitters. Its over two years and he's workmanship has a 1 year warranty.


    The product has a 5 year warranty are people honestly saying they think the builder has to return within 5 years!!! And refit it for free!!


    I would not and you can lump it.
    • z1a
    • By z1a 9th Sep 17, 7:25 PM
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    z1a
    You are right...........its in the manufactures guarantee but NOT the builders/fitters. Its over two years and he's workmanship has a 1 year warranty.


    The product has a 5 year warranty are people honestly saying they think the builder has to return within 5 years!!! And refit it for free!!


    I would not and you can lump it.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    I agree, my reply was to C_Mababejive, who said the item was out of guarantee.
    • adonis
    • By adonis 9th Sep 17, 7:30 PM
    • 720 Posts
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    adonis
    Some manufacturers especially white goods have a 5 or 10 year parts warranty, but it is subject to the manufacturers engineer doing the repair,
    I know a qualified engineer who wasn't allowed to fit a part for those reasons.
    Not the same thing I believe in your case but.

    Tell the customer to get lost and don't do any more work for them.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 9th Sep 17, 7:31 PM
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    unholyangel
    You are right...........its in the manufactures guarantee but NOT the builders/fitters. Its over two years and he's workmanship has a 1 year warranty.


    The product has a 5 year warranty are people honestly saying they think the builder has to return within 5 years!!! And refit it for free!!


    I would not and you can lump it.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    Who said that? The only thing people here have said is that if the OP supplied the goods and they don't conform to contract, he's liable for costs involved with a repair/replacement (including postage and labour).

    Those rights are set out in the Sale of Goods Act for contracts entered into before 1st Oct 2015 and the Consumer Rights Act for contracts entered into on or after 1st Oct 2015.

    If any trader doesn't wish to accept those obligations, they have the option of:
    1) Not supplying parts and therefore only being liable if something goes wrong with their work
    2) Becoming an employee of a company (with the company having liability for the work or goods/parts).
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 9th Sep 17, 7:52 PM
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    scd3scd4
    Who said that? The only thing people here have said is that if the OP supplied the goods and they don't conform to contract, he's liable for costs involved with a repair/replacement (including postage and labour).

    Those rights are set out in the Sale of Goods Act for contracts entered into before 1st Oct 2015 and the Consumer Rights Act for contracts entered into on or after 1st Oct 2015.

    If any trader doesn't wish to accept those obligations, they have the option of:
    1) Not supplying parts and therefore only being liable if something goes wrong with their work
    2) Becoming an employee of a company (with the company having liability for the work or goods/parts).
    Originally posted by unholyangel

    No he is not. He fitted a part. There is no suggesting he did anything wrong. He supplies a one year warranty on he's install. The part has gone faulty in over two years. By your logic he is still obligated on a product with a 5 year warranty to get a replacement and fit it for free.




    OP supplied the goods and they don't conform to contract, he's liable for costs involved with a repair/replacement (including postage and labour).


    That's not what's happened at all and no one has said anything about not conforming. The part has gone faulty......he has said he will replace the part. I would do nothing more.


    Most builders I know what tell you to get lost. You can take them to court if you want and see how you get on. That's assuming you paid vat and got a receipt and know who they are. Try it with most handymen or one man bands and see how successful you are.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 09-09-2017 at 8:43 PM.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 9th Sep 17, 9:09 PM
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    scd3scd4
    Ok lets try this.....plumber comes around my house and fits Ikea set of taps with a 5 year warranty. Lets say he supplies them or I do...................4 years 11 months and 27 days later they break.


    I pick up the phone and call the plumber......."Hello brother, remember me. Mr entitlement. Them taps have broken. Yes yes the 5 year old ones. Now be a good boy. Jump in ya white van and get around here pronto. Take the taps off, pop to Ikea for an exchange and then come back and refit for free please geezer".




    Now that's going to happen!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • Lomast
    • By Lomast 9th Sep 17, 9:53 PM
    • 349 Posts
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    Lomast
    You are confusing warranty with statutory rights under the cra. Under your extreme example if the plumber is also the supplier then yes they could still have some responsibility if the fault was inherent up to six years after it would require a independent report and may not involve complete responsibility it could just be a partial refund. Until the op confirms if he was just the fitter or also the supplier then this is all a bit accedemic anyway but I think you need to read up on what the supplier is liable for under the cra if you are going to continue to give advice.

    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 9th Sep 17, 10:05 PM
    • 518 Posts
    • 414 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    You are confusing warranty with statutory rights under the cra. Under your extreme example if the plumber is also the supplier then yes they could still have some responsibility if the fault was inherent up to six years after it would require a independent report and may not involve complete responsibility it could just be a partial refund. Until the op confirms if he was just the fitter or also the supplier then this is all a bit accedemic anyway but I think you need to read up on what the supplier is liable for under the cra if you are going to continue to give advice.
    Originally posted by Lomast

    Not confused I live in the real world with common sence and know what really happens and what does not. I have used many tradesmen over the years and know what they will reasonably do and what they wont. You can give all the advise and quote who you like but I don't know many who will drive for 4 hours to replace something that's broken 2 years after install for free. And to boot to a customer they are not that fond of anyway.




    The OP asked about obligation anyway which is not necessarily asking for legal advise. If he wanted that he would be best going to professionals with qualifications.


    Of course it is different if they are a large company. My windows and doors came with a 10 year warranty and the returned for many years later until they went out of business.


    Independents, handy men and the like don't care what you quote on a forum.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 10-09-2017 at 3:40 AM.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 9th Sep 17, 10:22 PM
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    scd3scd4
    Tiptop..........Not every issue has to be resolved how people tell you it has to.


    You can always send the replacement. I assume you supplied it. With a cheque for reasonable labour for it to be to refit by someone else. This saves the travelling and you dealing with him. You will be an exception to the builders I know and its not what I would do but there you go with a solution. Without all the drama some love.


    Out of interest, what did you fit?
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 09-09-2017 at 10:53 PM.
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 10th Sep 17, 5:26 PM
    • 10,294 Posts
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    C_Mababejive
    I agree, my reply was to C_Mababejive, who said the item was out of guarantee.
    Originally posted by z1a
    And i agree with you both
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 10th Sep 17, 5:52 PM
    • 11,539 Posts
    • 8,668 Thanks
    unholyangel
    No he is not. He fitted a part. There is no suggesting he did anything wrong. He supplies a one year warranty on he's install. The part has gone faulty in over two years. By your logic he is still obligated on a product with a 5 year warranty to get a replacement and fit it for free.


    OP supplied the goods and they don't conform to contract, he's liable for costs involved with a repair/replacement (including postage and labour).


    That's not what's happened at all and no one has said anything about not conforming. The part has gone faulty......he has said he will replace the part. I would do nothing more.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    How about you try reading what I actually said rather than just the part you selectively quoted. Here it is again:

    The only thing people here have said is that if the OP supplied the goods and they don't conform to contract, he's liable for costs involved with a repair/replacement (including postage and labour).
    You see that important word in bold? IF the op supplied the goods and they don't conform to contract (faulty doesn't necessarily mean they don't conform).

    However I notice what you've said in your latest post on this thread is just paraphrasing what I said in the quoted paragraph - telling the OP to send a cheque to cover the costs of refitting.

    If all you have experience of is cowboy traders, perhaps you need to re-evaluate how you select traders to do work for you.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
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