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  • FIRST POST
    • Lioness786
    • By Lioness786 8th Sep 17, 11:29 AM
    • 28Posts
    • 7Thanks
    Lioness786
    Letter before claim - gladtones- please help!
    • #1
    • 8th Sep 17, 11:29 AM
    Letter before claim - gladtones- please help! 8th Sep 17 at 11:29 AM
    Hi All, I am a newbie on here and need some advice PLEASE!

    I have a couple of days ago received a LBC from Gladstones, on shoddy paper and unsigned re a claim issued by Parking control management for parking in a Petrol station for a short period of time but not using the services a few months ago. I know after reading on the forums the letter does not conform to the standards required as its simple a letter with one line with a date, location and fine - which is now £160 - no other information or evidence is offered. It states "unless a satisfactory response is received we are instructed to start court proceedings against you without further notice" and the claim may increase blah blah blah

    At the time we did not see any signs what-so ever saying we could not park there. We have since got photos of the site and there are indeed signs but not clear, quiet small and high up. There is no way of knowing the signs are there, unless you know they are there. I'm pretty sure there are no signs on the entrance although I need to go back and get this confirmed.

    I have seen various suggestions as to how to respond but not sure on the best way. I don't want to get it wrong and it go to court. I noticed lotsofchildren123 has a response drafted in another post 5th Apr 17, 1:39 PM), (Smart parking,DRP charge, SHOCK) as a guide to a post on another thread. Is it ok to use this and adapt it? This will be my first letter to Gladstones.

    PLEASE help, the letter needs to be sent back ideally today. My hubby is getting quiet stressed as he is the RK and is saying to pay it but I am reluctant to. It seems they very cunningly did not send the letter out until a few days after producing it.
    Last edited by Lioness786; 08-09-2017 at 11:57 AM.
Page 1
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 8th Sep 17, 11:45 AM
    • 6,348 Posts
    • 8,155 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #2
    • 8th Sep 17, 11:45 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Sep 17, 11:45 AM
    First things first

    We need to establish if this is a real Gladstones letter or
    a letterhead that Gladstones pimp out to debt collectors ?

    I know it sounds disgusting but this is what Gladstones
    do

    Who are they asking you to pay
    Does the reference number start with a 1 or 3
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Sep 17, 12:49 PM
    • 51,537 Posts
    • 65,144 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 8th Sep 17, 12:49 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Sep 17, 12:49 PM
    My hubby is getting quiet stressed as he is the RK and is saying to pay it but I am reluctant to. It seems they very cunningly did not send the letter out until a few days after producing it.
    Originally posted by Lioness786
    Same conversation yesterday with another wife! What is it with husbands being a wuss?! I can say that because I am a wife & my OH is the same!

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5707088

    This one explains about pseudo Gladstones letters from debt collectors, if the ref starts with 3:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5706868

    As it is PCM, you MAY WELL get a claim in the Autumn. However they are badly administered, awfully evidenced and winnable by a clued-up defendant!

    If you get a claim from Gladstones then read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread and defend and win it. Click on my username now, and read the last post I made 5 minutes ago, before this one because I seem to be repeating myself about how successful we are with court claims and how they are no big deal, no risk, no CCJ, no huge costs at stake (nothing bad at all).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Lioness786
    • By Lioness786 8th Sep 17, 12:53 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Lioness786
    • #4
    • 8th Sep 17, 12:53 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Sep 17, 12:53 PM
    I think its the real deal. ref no starts with 1000xxx. Does it matter that its not signed?


    Lol coupon mad - I think he is stressing me out more than the actual PCN itself.


    Ok thanks - I will read the post you have just posted.
    Last edited by Lioness786; 08-09-2017 at 12:56 PM.
    • Lioness786
    • By Lioness786 8th Sep 17, 1:02 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Lioness786
    • #5
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:02 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:02 PM
    Coupon - Mad sorry I cant find the newbies thread. Doesn't help I am new on here and still trying to find my feet.


    Please could you post the link? Need to get this letter done and dusted before the hubby is home......
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Sep 17, 1:09 PM
    • 33,269 Posts
    • 17,201 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #6
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:09 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:09 PM
    The newbies FAQ thread is near the top of the forum

    Signposted in the Sig at the bottom of every post by CM!
    • Lioness786
    • By Lioness786 8th Sep 17, 1:14 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Lioness786
    • #7
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:14 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:14 PM
    Quentin - found it! I could see reference to it at the bottom of CM but could not figure out how to get to it - Thankyou!
    • Lioness786
    • By Lioness786 8th Sep 17, 1:27 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Lioness786
    • #8
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:27 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:27 PM
    Coupon-mad is it ok to use the letter drafted in your post dated 3rd Jul 17, 9:02 PM and tailor it to my circumstances as response to the LBA?


    Or I have drafted another response I can show if its ok to post on here?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Sep 17, 1:29 PM
    • 33,269 Posts
    • 17,201 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #9
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:29 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:29 PM
    Ok to post your draft here for comments

    Make sure it's anonymous - no info that allows the ppc to identify you
    • Lioness786
    • By Lioness786 8th Sep 17, 1:59 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Lioness786
    Your Ref
    PCN Number:

    Thank you for your letter before claim.

    However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and, fails to provide the photographic evidence. It does not even say what the cause of action is, nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence. It is not even signed!

    This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.

    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. An explanation of the cause of action
    2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. What the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
    5. A copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
    6. A copy of any alleged contract with the driver
    7. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
    8. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

    I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information.


    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.



    Its actually a draft I hijacked and amended from one of the posts on here!

    • Lioness786
    • By Lioness786 8th Sep 17, 2:40 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Lioness786
    is this ok to send?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Sep 17, 3:49 PM
    • 51,537 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Yes it will do, and forces them to engage in some exchanges in the hope of delaying a claim until after the 'pre-action' rules get tighter (and their 'job' harder) in 3 weeks time:

    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Lioness786
    • By Lioness786 8th Sep 17, 4:19 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Lioness786
    Ok great, thankyou! You say it will do.....Is there anything I should add to make it more robust that would perhaps encourage them to drop the claim?
    • Lioness786
    • By Lioness786 8th Sep 17, 8:18 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Lioness786
    Thanks for all the help all, was getting a tad worried I would not find something suitable in-time.


    Letter printed, awaiting hubby's signature as RK and in the post 1st thing!


    Fingers crossed Gladstones may disappear, but even if they don't I'm feeling more confident. Well for now :-)
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Sep 17, 1:04 AM
    • 51,537 Posts
    • 65,144 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    and in the post 1st thing!
    ...only at a Saturday-open Post Office Counter, to get a free certificate of posting (keep it).

    Not just popped randomly in a postbox with no proof of posting.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Lioness786
    • By Lioness786 9th Sep 17, 1:39 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Lioness786
    Will this cover me should the letter not reach Gladstones or is it better to do recorded delivery and that way I have a signature and they cant deny receipt?


    The letter is dated 31st August so have until the 14th for it to reach there.


    Many thanks
    Last edited by Lioness786; 09-09-2017 at 1:56 AM.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 9th Sep 17, 9:42 AM
    • 655 Posts
    • 1,244 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Post by normal post as coupon directs. Signed for mail can be refused and will be retained not left at the address (so not deemed served) if no one answers the door to the postie.
    • Lioness786
    • By Lioness786 9th Sep 17, 12:07 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Lioness786
    Ok - so in the event the papers go missing / or they deny receiving will the certificate of posting cover our backs in the event of it going to court?


    And stupid question but should my partner sign the letter, but then underneath put RK or should we just leave blank and just insert name and RK?
    Last edited by Lioness786; 09-09-2017 at 12:18 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Sep 17, 12:40 PM
    • 51,537 Posts
    • 65,144 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes, that's why we both said it. Keep the certificate of posting. We do this all the time!

    He signs above his name, like in any formal letter.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Lioness786
    • By Lioness786 9th Sep 17, 12:59 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Lioness786
    Ok thanks! Sorry, I know you guys know what your doing but was double checking we would be covered.


    If I get it wrong, will never hear the end of it from the Hubby!
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