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  • FIRST POST
    • zebra
    • By zebra 8th Sep 17, 10:05 AM
    • 12Posts
    • 1Thanks
    zebra
    Anyone care to decide what they think of this investment fund?
    • #1
    • 8th Sep 17, 10:05 AM
    Anyone care to decide what they think of this investment fund? 8th Sep 17 at 10:05 AM
    Legal and General "Primary fund" was recommended to me by Nationwide BS. I can't find any independent opinions about it online. Do any of MSE forum users fancy having a peek & proffering an opinion?

    I can't post links, but it's top link if you google "nationwide fund range primary legal and general"

    I would be switching into this from a more conventional type of investment wrapper, which Nationwide calls a "Portfolio investment". About £25k total.

    NWide says the Primary fund has advantage of more indexed management, lower management charges and "simplicity" because it's just one line summary to compare old & new balance. The Primary Fund is still spread across a range of risk levels/asset classes. I think only 8 actual fund choices to achieve that spread, though. I've had good experiences with L&G before.

    It suits me to keep using Nationwide as fin. advisor, so only question is whether I want to go to the L&G Primary Fund. I want a relatively hands-off approach with this investment pot, review it every 4-6 yrs maybe. I'm looking for long-term growth but not saving for anything specific.

    Thanks to anyone who feels curious enough to have a look at the link & give an opinion!
    Be ALERT - The world needs more LERTS
Page 1
    • bengalknights
    • By bengalknights 8th Sep 17, 10:10 AM
    • 4,158 Posts
    • 1,518 Thanks
    bengalknights
    • #2
    • 8th Sep 17, 10:10 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Sep 17, 10:10 AM
    Goverment bonds are good long term investments
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 8th Sep 17, 10:26 AM
    • 3,280 Posts
    • 4,980 Thanks
    Malthusian
    • #3
    • 8th Sep 17, 10:26 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Sep 17, 10:26 AM
    You wouldn't find many independent opinions online because it's not a solution anyone would use if they were acting independently (i.e. either an IFA or a DIY investor). Nationwide use it because they are tied to selling L&G's products.

    L&G's funds are perfectly fine for what they are. But you could almost certainly get independent financial advice which would select the best solution from the whole of the market, for the same or less than what you are paying Nationwide. However, you said you prefer to keep using them so you pays your money and takes your choice.

    Goverment bonds are good long term investments
    by bengalknights
    No idea what this has to do with the OP's post, but with long-term gilts yielding 1.5%pa and a high possibility of capital loss when interest rates rise, no they aren't.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 8th Sep 17, 10:34 AM
    • 7,561 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    • #4
    • 8th Sep 17, 10:34 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Sep 17, 10:34 AM
    AFAICS its the L&G range so which one would you invest in? There are 8 different funds.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 8th Sep 17, 11:31 AM
    • 89,516 Posts
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    dunstonh
    • #5
    • 8th Sep 17, 11:31 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Sep 17, 11:31 AM
    egal and General "Primary fund" was recommended to me by Nationwide BS. I can't find any independent opinions about it online. Do any of MSE forum users fancy having a peek & proffering an opinion?
    Nationwide retail L&G products and investments They are tied agents. So, nothing independent about that. They also tend to retail the products at a higher cost than the open market/IFA version or cut down the product. For example, the L&G range via Natonwide used the Cofunds software but with most of the features and fund selection reduced to just show L&G funds.

    . I've had good experiences with L&G before.
    Have you have experiences with other investment companies to be able to compare or have you just used L&G via Nationwide.

    It suits me to keep using Nationwide as fin. advisor,
    The general rule of thumb on this site is that you either DIY or if you need advice, you should use an IFA. Not a tied sales force of an insurance company.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 8th Sep 17, 12:30 PM
    • 1,107 Posts
    • 620 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    • #6
    • 8th Sep 17, 12:30 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Sep 17, 12:30 PM
    As far as return is concerned I'd have no problem using L&G Index Trackers in a portfolio. The issue is the total fees you'll be paying by buying L&G funds through Nationwide. Ask what the fees will be and then compare them to what you would be charged on one of the low cost platforms. Educate yourself so you avoid paying more than you need to a platform or a financial adviser for simple investing.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • zebra
    • By zebra 8th Sep 17, 12:37 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    zebra
    • #7
    • 8th Sep 17, 12:37 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Sep 17, 12:37 PM
    yeah, I've talked to financial advisors not Nationwide. And have invested in other funds over the years (in multiple countries, via multiple gatekeepers). I haven't been any more confident about what the other advisors suggested, to be honest, I completely understand that Nationwide offers simply what it offers. To give credit, Nationwide are better at monitoring this investment pot than I have been.

    I may try REDDIT to ask my questions or other questions like it. I thought I might get No Replies at all so thanks for at least trying to answer.
    Be ALERT - The world needs more LERTS
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 8th Sep 17, 1:09 PM
    • 1,107 Posts
    • 620 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    • #8
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:09 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:09 PM
    Do you have any idea of the fees you'll be paying or the asset allocation that is appropriate for your situation.

    You say you've bought funds before. How would the L&G investment fit in with those, where are they, what are they and what are you paying. A one time visit to an IFA might be appropriate for you to do some spring cleaning and consolidating of your finances, but I'd rather you continue to ask questions, educate yourself and DIY.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 8th Sep 17, 1:23 PM
    • 89,516 Posts
    • 55,951 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #9
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:23 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Sep 17, 1:23 PM
    To give credit, Nationwide are better at monitoring this investment pot than I have been.
    Nationwide do not monitor it. Nationwide have nothing to do with it apart from selling it to you.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • zebra
    • By zebra 8th Sep 17, 5:15 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    zebra
    That's not true, DunstonH. I originally got this fund in 2012 & Nationwide have contacted me twice about it since to let me know things about the portfolio distribution, the 2nd time specifically about poor performance issues (so they do monitor).

    Boston: There are a few management fee options I could choose from, I don't want to say what I'm getting for how much I pay b/c MSErs won't like it (!) but it's mine to pay, not yours.

    Appropriate to my situation Q: NWide have done repeat long consultations about risk levels and financial planning (covers things like debt, pensions, retirement, other investments, income, future spending plans etc.). So if I couldn't think thru all that myself, they try to prompt me to.

    I'm not a good one for DIY on so many confusing investment products: MEH. I spent ages trying to understand ETFs once -- what a waste of time. Barclays were clueless when I asked. My husband does a lot of stock buying which is enough in one family. We made a good profit on BP shares after Deep Horizon, mind, that was my astute call.
    Be ALERT - The world needs more LERTS
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 8th Sep 17, 5:29 PM
    • 89,516 Posts
    • 55,951 Thanks
    dunstonh
    That's not true, DunstonH.
    Yes it is true.

    I originally got this fund in 2012 & Nationwide have contacted me twice about it since to let me know things about the portfolio distribution, the 2nd time specifically about poor performance issues (so they do monitor).
    Because the sales rep wants to get you to top it up. This is the model the banks and building societies used. The person you see has absolutely no impact on it at all. They will contact you and then SPIN whatever the situation is. Nationwide never employed any discretionary investment managers and they had no permissions to recommend changes on the basis of performance. We have an ex Nationwide adviser in our office. So, we know a lot about their methods. And unsurprisingly, they were very similar to the banks. It was a transactional service where existing customers would get periodic meetings because, statistically, its a good way to get top ups or extra business.

    Boston: There are a few management fee options I could choose from, I don't want to say what I'm getting for how much I pay b/c MSErs won't like it (!) but it's mine to pay, not yours.
    You are at the wrong website then. Whilst, this site does sometimes go over the top in prioritising money saving at the expense of quality, this is not one of them. You are neither getting quality or value for money.

    I mentioned that the Nationwide L&G funds used the Cofunds software. The Nationwide charge for pre 2013 customers was 0.31% if the Primary investment service was selected (that is the cut down version) and 0.39% for the full fund range. Compare that to the actual Cofunds platform which was 0.29%. Cofunds also make available all L&G funds on a superclean basis. Not Nationwide who used a more expensive share class with the (N) tag at the end. So, in your case, you were paying more for less.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • phillw
    • By phillw 8th Sep 17, 5:44 PM
    • 917 Posts
    • 546 Thanks
    phillw
    It suits me to keep using Nationwide as fin. advisor, so only question is whether I want to go to the L&G Primary Fund. I want a relatively hands-off approach with this investment pot, review it every 4-6 yrs maybe. I'm looking for long-term growth but not saving for anything specific.
    Originally posted by zebra
    I went through nationwide about ten years ago for a stocks and shares ISA & when I cashed out about five years ago I'd made an average of around 10% a year (I can't remember the fund name). I had to time selling though as we were going through some pretty crazy times & I was monitoring it at least once a month.

    I'm a little more savvy now & wouldn't do it again. But if you're in the same place that I was then it's not horrendous, just remember that you're paying someones wages at nationwide out of your investment.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 8th Sep 17, 6:59 PM
    • 10,667 Posts
    • 6,967 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Legal and General "Primary fund" was recommended to me by Nationwide BS. I can't find any independent opinions about it online. Do any of MSE forum users fancy having a peek & proffering an opinion?

    I can't post links, but it's top link if you google "nationwide fund range primary legal and general"

    I would be switching into this from a more conventional type of investment wrapper, which Nationwide calls a "Portfolio investment". About £25k total.

    NWide says the Primary fund has advantage of more indexed management, lower management charges and "simplicity" because it's just one line summary to compare old & new balance. The Primary Fund is still spread across a range of risk levels/asset classes. I think only 8 actual fund choices to achieve that spread, though. I've had good experiences with L&G before.

    It suits me to keep using Nationwide as fin. advisor, so only question is whether I want to go to the L&G Primary Fund. I want a relatively hands-off approach with this investment pot, review it every 4-6 yrs maybe. I'm looking for long-term growth but not saving for anything specific.

    Thanks to anyone who feels curious enough to have a look at the link & give an opinion!
    Originally posted by zebra
    It appears as though total costs for this product are well in excess of 1%, they are just under that with online management but there's an additional charge apparently if you use a branch adviser.

    Nationwide are also a firm that certainly until recently charged an initial fee, possibly 5%, which is unheard of for almost all supports for the last decade or more st James place being one of the very few exceptions.

    There are a couple of dozen providers that could supply this at half the cost or less, and with a £25k lump sum this is more painful than a small regular investment.

    Nothing wrong with the l&g product, but it's no better than similar funds from vanguard, black rock, fidelity HSBC etc and typically slightly more expensive, even without the additional nationwide charging layer.
    • zebra
    • By zebra 8th Sep 17, 7:47 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    zebra
    Ah well, I'm glad their (alleged but in that case failed top up sales) tactics worked. 2 of the funds in the portfolio tanked. I wasn't paying proper attention until they brought that to my attention. Very good.

    Darn, I don't have much insight from this thread about whether the "simpler" Primary fund is better than what they call a portfolio. Will have to ponder how to figure that out.

    Cheers for the useful replies.
    Be ALERT - The world needs more LERTS
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 8th Sep 17, 8:02 PM
    • 89,516 Posts
    • 55,951 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Darn, I don't have much insight from this thread about whether the "simpler" Primary fund is better than what they call a portfolio. Will have to ponder how to figure that out.
    Its not a fund. Primary i the name they gave to their cut down fund range offering (copy and paste below):

    Primary Investment Service – applied if you have access to a range of funds provided by Legal & General only. - 0.31%
    Standard Platform Service – applied if you have access to the full range of funds from different fund managers. - 0.39%


    So, yes its simpler and its a bit cheaper but not better as you will only have access to L&G funds. If all you want is L&G funds then I guess its ok.

    However, you are still paying more for L&G funds than you would via the whole of market version with other providers.

    One positive is that Nationwide will no longer be using the (N) tagged expensive funds. They are now using class C (superclean). However, here is an example if you used the L&G Mixed investment 0-35% Fund via them:

    0.34% - for L&G fund charge
    0.31% - platform charge
    0.40% - Nationwide charge

    That is crazy pricing considering it is not a full advice service but a directed service. You can buy the same L&G funds cheaper elsewhere on a DIY basis or via an IFA on full advice service. That 0.4% Nationwide charge is the killer.
    Last edited by dunstonh; 08-09-2017 at 8:07 PM.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 8th Sep 17, 9:31 PM
    • 1,107 Posts
    • 620 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    I'm not a good one for DIY on so many confusing investment products: MEH. I spent ages trying to understand ETFs once -- what a waste of time. Barclays were clueless when I asked. My husband does a lot of stock buying which is enough in one family. We made a good profit on BP shares after Deep Horizon, mind, that was my astute call.
    Originally posted by zebra
    It pains me to say it, but I think you would benefit from some IFA advice. There might be some issues here. Do you know what your spouse is doing with the share trading?....that can be very risky. You have mentioned various funds bought over the years and are now being pushed towards L&G funds by Nationwide with little understanding of what you're buying or how much it will cost you. L&G funds are ok, but why are you buying them, and which ones will you buy? You need to do a full financial inventory, come up with a strategic plan and get your husband away from the stock trading site.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 9th Sep 17, 6:45 AM
    • 10,667 Posts
    • 6,967 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Its not a fund. Primary i the name they gave to their cut down fund range offering (copy and paste below):

    Primary Investment Service – applied if you have access to a range of funds provided by Legal & General only. - 0.31%
    Standard Platform Service – applied if you have access to the full range of funds from different fund managers. - 0.39%


    So, yes its simpler and its a bit cheaper but not better as you will only have access to L&G funds. If all you want is L&G funds then I guess its ok.

    However, you are still paying more for L&G funds than you would via the whole of market version with other providers.

    One positive is that Nationwide will no longer be using the (N) tagged expensive funds. They are now using class C (superclean). However, here is an example if you used the L&G Mixed investment 0-35% Fund via them:

    0.34% - for L&G fund charge
    0.31% - platform charge
    0.40% - Nationwide charge

    That is crazy pricing considering it is not a full advice service but a directed service. You can buy the same L&G funds cheaper elsewhere on a DIY basis or via an IFA on full advice service. That 0.4% Nationwide charge is the killer.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    It's certainly expensive and poor but as an ifa could you really say the 0.4% charge is expensive?

    The OP seeme to have invested £25k, so an ifa would typically want 3% set up and 1% ongoing, even then would many want to deal with someone on the basis of £750 upfront and £250-£300 a year ongoing?

    The adviser has to make money but surely the sums involved here are just to small to benefit from advice.
    • A_T
    • By A_T 9th Sep 17, 9:33 AM
    • 220 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    A_T
    Nationwide do not monitor it. Nationwide have nothing to do with it apart from selling it to you.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    This is true. I had some difficulty transferring a S&S ISA from "Nationwide". When I contacted them I was effectively told it was really nothing to do with them and I should contact Legal & General.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 9th Sep 17, 10:27 AM
    • 647 Posts
    • 405 Thanks
    Alexland
    All looks very expensive and I struggle to understand why people tie up their investments with high street banks when there are such superior and simpler options with Vanguard who will do platform and VLS fund for 0.37pc total.

    I wouldn't invest too much time trying to determine which bad high street choice is better or least worse.
    • Apodemus
    • By Apodemus 9th Sep 17, 10:35 AM
    • 950 Posts
    • 767 Thanks
    Apodemus
    Appropriate to my situation Q: NWide have done repeat long consultations about risk levels and financial planning (covers things like debt, pensions, retirement, other investments, income, future spending plans etc.). So if I couldn't think thru all that myself, they try to prompt me to.
    Originally posted by zebra
    Sounds like a marketing questionnaire to me! My bank sometimes asks similar questions, but it is all about product push, rather than financial advice.
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