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    • KTF
    • By KTF 7th Sep 17, 5:44 PM
    • 4,571 Posts
    • 1,864 Thanks
    KTF
    • #2
    • 7th Sep 17, 5:44 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Sep 17, 5:44 PM
    MSE in promoting its switching site and 'special' EDF switching deal shocker
    • Caddyman
    • By Caddyman 7th Sep 17, 7:24 PM
    • 265 Posts
    • 156 Thanks
    Caddyman
    • #3
    • 7th Sep 17, 7:24 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Sep 17, 7:24 PM
    I'll admit, I'm one of those people. I'm not going to shift to an energy company I've never heard of and know little about, save for what I can find out using a popular search engine.

    I'm on a two year fix with Npower which I signed up to last year and nothing else on the market currently being offered is cheaper, including OneSelect who are currently the cheapest out of all of the energy providers based on my current useage and just £15 a year more than my current Npower fix.

    The fact is, even if I was on a tariff that was up to £50 a year MORE than the cheapest independent energy supplier, I still wouldn't switch? Why? because I know where I stand and I know that my present supplier has a pretty huge presence and could possibly weather the storm if the energy market went through really tough times.

    At the end of the day, it's up to these small independent energy providers to 'sell' themselves and get themselves established as household names before I would even consider making a switch. I guess though if they advertise themselves as much as BG do on the TV, they wouldn't be able to afford to flog their energy cheaper. Also, at least one independent energy company makes you pay up front in advance for a month's energy before you even start, based I believe on consumption figures one provides from their previous supplier. I've read their blurb and I understand why they do it, but they're not having my money up front.

    As far as I'm concerned, whilst the vast majority of households with the big six continue to display total apathy to even switching away from their current providers standard variable tariff, they're subsidising people like me who don't mind making a 10 minute free phone call and being shifted to a cheaper tariff without even switching energy provider.
    • Peteyboy
    • By Peteyboy 7th Sep 17, 7:56 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Peteyboy
    • #4
    • 7th Sep 17, 7:56 PM
    Willing to give the unknown a try
    • #4
    • 7th Sep 17, 7:56 PM
    My British Gas deal finishes on 3rd Oct so did a comparison and Eversmart was the cheapest so I am going with them, how are these company's meant to get a start if we all dismiss them, I believe its company's like this that are stopping the prices going even higher at least with things like car insurance TV Broadband etc you can haggle but the energy company's are not interested in loyalty just getting as much money for the shareholders as they can, I have been with a few of the big 6 over the years and had some extremely bad dealings with them. I will let you all know how good or bad my choice is in the coming months
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 7th Sep 17, 7:59 PM
    • 4,531 Posts
    • 2,702 Thanks
    Hengus
    • #5
    • 7th Sep 17, 7:59 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Sep 17, 7:59 PM

    At the end of the day, it's up to these small independent energy providers to 'sell' themselves and get themselves established as household names before I would even consider making a switch. I guess though if they advertise themselves as much as BG do on the TV, they wouldn't be able to afford to flog their energy cheaper. Also, at least one independent energy company makes you pay up front in advance for a month's energy before you even start, based I believe on consumption figures one provides from their previous supplier. I've read their blurb and I understand why they do it, but they're not having my money up front.
    Originally posted by Caddyman
    If we all followed your line of thinking then we wouldn’t have 50 odd suppliers. The truth of the matter is that your supply and credit balance are better protected now than, say, with your broadband contract. Suppliers pay for the energy that they sell on to you in advance of supply: what is wrong with them asking you for some cash in advance of supply? I pay for my insurance, broadband, telephone and car tax in advance and I have no credit protection if the supplier goes bust.

    FWIW, I have had good and appalling service from suppliers big and small over the past few years. For example, I had excellent service from GBEnergy. Yes, they went bust but my credit balance was repaid in full within a couple of months. I am now with two small suppliers and their service/billing over the past 4 months is on par with the best. I don’t therefore follow your logic; particularly, as one of the Big 6 is currently under Ofgem investigation.
    • harz99
    • By harz99 7th Sep 17, 9:10 PM
    • 2,492 Posts
    • 2,439 Thanks
    harz99
    • #6
    • 7th Sep 17, 9:10 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Sep 17, 9:10 PM
    Just started a switch from NPower to OVO, slightly cheaper than existing deal but an extra year as two year fix.

    This will be the first time I've switched to a smaller supplier, in the past it's always been whatever is the best deal with a big 6 company, time for a change and fingers crossed things will go smoothly.

    FWIW, the only big 6 supplier that I've never had issues with was EDF, but I think I may just have been lucky there.
    • Caddyman
    • By Caddyman 7th Sep 17, 9:13 PM
    • 265 Posts
    • 156 Thanks
    Caddyman
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 17, 9:13 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 17, 9:13 PM
    If we all followed your line of thinking then we wouldn’t have 50 odd suppliers. The truth of the matter is that your supply and credit balance are better protected now than, say, with your broadband contract. Suppliers pay for the energy that they sell on to you in advance of supply: what is wrong with them asking you for some cash in advance of supply? I pay for my insurance, broadband, telephone and car tax in advance and I have no credit protection if the supplier goes bust.

    FWIW, I have had good and appalling service from suppliers big and small over the past few years. For example, I had excellent service from GBEnergy. Yes, they went bust but my credit balance was repaid in full within a couple of months. I am now with two small suppliers and their service/billing over the past 4 months is on par with the best. I don’t therefore follow your logic; particularly, as one of the Big 6 is currently under Ofgem investigation.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    I have never had the inconvenience of an energy company providing me with a utility, going bust.

    As much as you may not appreciate my complete apathy toward not giving smaller independent energy providers a chance, it's my choice at the end of the day. I'm currently on a good deal, better than anything being currently offered by any of the cheapest independent companies. When my tariff ends, I'll review my circumstances, but I doubt it will involve taking similar leaps that you do, perhaps because I might be more risk averse when it comes to energy providers.

    I see I'm not the only one who has tried to find out about alternative suppliers, and with little success to be honest. Most of them don't seem to give any real information in their 'About Us' blurb on their websites either:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5697009
    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 8th Sep 17, 7:28 AM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 1,423 Thanks
    fredandwilma
    • #8
    • 8th Sep 17, 7:28 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Sep 17, 7:28 AM
    If we all followed your line of thinking then we wouldn’t have 50 odd suppliers. The truth of the matter is that your supply and credit balance are better protected now than, say, with your broadband contract.
    Originally posted by Hengus

    However, the background of some of those 50 odd suppliers is debatable?

    I personally, research any of the smaller unknown companies, and i certainly wouldn't use a company with little information available or with a director who has owned previous companies which have gone into liquidation, for instance.

    Conversely, maybe for the uninitiated, maybe you would see a company you haven't heard of offering a low price and be tempted to use that company surely, if you are influenced solely by price?

    I wonder where MSE published last months poll? 3500 respondents, but the poll seems to have passed me by. I never saw it.
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
    • Caddyman
    • By Caddyman 8th Sep 17, 8:35 AM
    • 265 Posts
    • 156 Thanks
    Caddyman
    • #9
    • 8th Sep 17, 8:35 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Sep 17, 8:35 AM
    Just started a switch from NPower to OVO, slightly cheaper than existing deal but an extra year as two year fix.........
    Originally posted by harz99
    As a matter of interest, as OVO do charge in advance for energy, how much is your first payment going to be on switching? I understand from what I've read, that the amount is based upon figures provided relating to previous billing from your old supplier? If for instance your monthly direct debit was £65 for electricity and £45 for gas, would they be asking you to stump up at least £110 before you even start? From some of the reviews I've read into this company, this is exactly what they appear to do? By all means, if one is happy to do that, then great.

    However, I've also read a lot of reviews by some extremely unhappy customers relating to being billed this way, which seems a little odd as they must have known what they were letting themselves in for when they signed up? Or perhaps, the amount they were expecting to stump up as an advance payment, far exceeded the amount they had planned for?

    I'm also with Npower. Granted yours and my energy useage may be worlds apart, but I'm guessing you didn't switch to Npower's June 2018 Feel Good Fix last year? I did, and there's nothing that is presently cheaper, so I'll be sticking with them until June 2018, unless the energy market prices suddenly tumble, then I'll switch, but on past experience with Npower, they do seem to offer up cheaper tariffs regularly enough, you just have to be bothered to keep on top of them. This is why I like CheapEnergyClub, because although you do get notified of cheaper deals, you can still log in and check regularly. My cheap energy notification, is set at £50 per annum saving, so if any provider comes up with a saving of £50 or more, I'll get the email. However, nothing has come close for months because there is nothing cheaper for me to switch to. I have an annual energy bill of £670, which for two people in a 3 bed semi, is pretty cheap compared to lots of households.
    • ChaunceyGardiner
    • By ChaunceyGardiner 8th Sep 17, 11:42 AM
    • 79 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    ChaunceyGardiner
    When my tariff ends, I'll review my circumstances, but I doubt it will involve taking similar leaps that you do, perhaps because I might be more risk averse when it comes to energy providers.
    Originally posted by Caddyman
    What risk?
    • CL47
    • By CL47 8th Sep 17, 11:57 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    CL47
    Cheap energy deals
    The issue that put me off switching to one of the smaller and cheaper energy companies was that all of them require you to sign up to a "budget" account with a supposedly "fixed" monthly payment. In practice this so-called fixed amount miraculously rises (upward-only reviews) and if you disagree with what is being taken you have to go through the pfaff of challenging the company each time. In practice the customer usually builds up a hefty credit balance. While that is returned at the end of the annual cycle, it is "free" money for the energy company in the meantime and the customer is stood out of pocket until the annual review. I opted for one of the "Big6" paying a little extra for a quarterly "in arrears" direct debit payment for energy actually used.
    • Caddyman
    • By Caddyman 8th Sep 17, 12:15 PM
    • 265 Posts
    • 156 Thanks
    Caddyman
    What risk?
    Originally posted by ChaunceyGardiner
    The risk in my opinion, and it is my opinion, that a small, hardly heard of energy provider, might go out of business, such as happened with GB Energy.

    Ok, OFGEM states it's 'unlikely that your supplier will go out of business' but guess what? it happened! So OFGEM may have a safety net in place to minimize the inconvenience to customers that suffer this kind of calamity, but my own risk aversion leads me to remain with a very large supplier. That's it, my choice, just as it is the choice of everyone who wishes to do so, to change energy supplier to whomever they see fit.

    I have to admit, I do find it slightly odd why some people would swap supplier just to save 10 or 20 quid a year, but it's money saved, so good on them. I would however point out, that there are switchers out there who take the moral high ground and will switch to a more expensive tariff to be 'Green' and do their bit for the planet. Good for them if they can afford to do it.

    As CL47 has pointed out, I too don't mind paying a little extra for a quarterly "in arrears" direct debit payment for energy actually used and quite possibly a bigger 'safety net' of a large utility company that is possibly less likely to go belly up if the wind farm stops rotating.
    • poppellerant
    • By poppellerant 8th Sep 17, 12:32 PM
    • 1,003 Posts
    • 520 Thanks
    poppellerant
    I took a gamble when I switched to Iresa, because they were a relatively new company that I had never heard of before. At first they were a complete shambles - wrong readings, unable to speak to anybody on the phone, multiple failures to reply to emails.

    I'm not saying Iresa are perfect now, but they do eventually get there in the end. They bill me for gas and electric and I pay them. All I would ask is that they support smart meters.

    As off-putting as new suppliers might seem, ride it out and give them a chance.
    • Consumerist
    • By Consumerist 8th Sep 17, 1:21 PM
    • 4,665 Posts
    • 2,319 Thanks
    Consumerist
    If you're concerned about using a smaller supplier, don't let that put you off switching. . .
    Now, this is all very well in theory but what would happen if huge numbers switched to the cheapest small supplier? . . .

    It wouldn't be long before the supplier would not be able to cope with the demand and will refuse to admit it until the complaints levels rose so high that the "victims of their own success" line would be issued.

    In my view, consumers are right to treat new entrants with some reservation until there has been some organic growth that indicates the supplier is adapting efficiently to increases in customer numbers.

    Although customers' supplies are protected from the collapse of a supplier, it's not a lot of fun having to hurriedly hunt round for a new supplier if the fall-back supplier's tariffs are not suitable.
    Warning: In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
    • NittyGritty
    • By NittyGritty 8th Sep 17, 1:58 PM
    • 905 Posts
    • 278 Thanks
    NittyGritty
    MSE in promoting its switching site and 'special' EDF switching deal shocker
    Originally posted by KTF
    totally agree, looks like MSE is more for profits than savings these days,


    wonders how much EDF paid Mse to promote this shocking EDF deal


    MSE claim to help save people money , yet they promote this so called top deal which is soooo expensive it doesnt even come in the top 20 in cheapest deals


    tells you all you need to know
    • Consumerist
    • By Consumerist 8th Sep 17, 2:59 PM
    • 4,665 Posts
    • 2,319 Thanks
    Consumerist
    totally agree, looks like MSE is more for profits than savings these days, . . .
    Originally posted by NittyGritty
    Oh come on folks, that's a bit unfair.

    Many people don't know whether to trust the smaller suppliers so MSE cut a deal with one of the big six. Then there is cash-back to be earned from the switch and MSE gets some commission.

    Some people will not be satisfied until the comparison sites require a subscription to use them.
    Warning: In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
    • NittyGritty
    • By NittyGritty 8th Sep 17, 3:33 PM
    • 905 Posts
    • 278 Thanks
    NittyGritty
    its there in black and white how much of a shocking deal MSE have promoted


    nothing unfair about it
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 8th Sep 17, 4:00 PM
    • 4,531 Posts
    • 2,702 Thanks
    Hengus
    However, the background of some of those 50 odd suppliers is debatable?

    I personally, research any of the smaller unknown companies, and i certainly wouldn't use a company with little information available or with a director who has owned previous companies which have gone into liquidation, for instance.

    Conversely, maybe for the uninitiated, maybe you would see a company you haven't heard of offering a low price and be tempted to use that company surely, if you are influenced solely by price?

    I wonder where MSE published last months poll? 3500 respondents, but the poll seems to have passed me by. I never saw it.
    Originally posted by fredandwilma
    I am not disagreeing. Ofgem itself has said that it awards Supply Licences on the basis of a completed application form and a £450 licence fee but in doing so it is not giving any guarantees that the Licence Holder is ‘a fit and proper person to run a company’. My point is that the level of protection now offered to domestic energy customers far outweighs the protection that you and I have for such things as insurance, broadband and mobile phone contracts. If any of these businesses go into liquidation then we are on our own. No credit protection plus the need to take out a new contract with A N Other. With energy, the insolvency process is seamless. Ofgem appoints a supplier of last resort and even the DD mandate does not have to be re-written.

    So what are the actual risks? Put simply, bad billing and poor customer service. I, and others, had issues with Iresa’s incorrect use of calorific values and this led to a complaint to The Energy Ombudsman (at a cost of £460 to the supplier).

    I do have an ongoing concern about Powershop which Ofgem has been considering now for over 2 months. If I don’t get an answer shortly, then I will just switch away. The only thing that keeps me with them is their excellent customer service. That said, like many new companies, it is worth looking to see whether there is more to them than just a man with a laptop. Powershop is a well established NZ/AU energy supplier.
    • Consumerist
    • By Consumerist 8th Sep 17, 4:01 PM
    • 4,665 Posts
    • 2,319 Thanks
    Consumerist
    its there in black and white how much of a shocking deal MSE have promoted
    Originally posted by NittyGritty
    Well, from the latest newsletter :-
    • The market's cheapest: £824/yr - so save about £330.
    • Cheap small firm with decent feedback: £838/yr (a) - so save £310.
    • Cheap longer fix and top service (Ovo): £883/yr (a) - so save £270 (£500+ over 2yrs).
    • Cheapest Big 6: MSE EDF tariff: £890/yr (a) - so save £260.
    • Cheapest 'don't wanna switch firm' Big 6 deals: £890/yr - £1,082/yr (a).
    FULL HELP ON EACH OF THESE BELOW
    (a) Our Cheap Energy Club gives £25 dual-fuel cashback on these tariffs, so we've included that in the saving.
    Warning: In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
    • Caddyman
    • By Caddyman 8th Sep 17, 4:40 PM
    • 265 Posts
    • 156 Thanks
    Caddyman
    ........So what are the actual risks? Put simply, bad billing and poor customer service.......
    Originally posted by Hengus
    With great respect to you, that's too simplistic a view. GB Energy went bust I believe, because of a spike in wholesale prices. Yes, Co-op Energy were appointed by OFGEM to take on GB Energy's customers, but I suspect it still left an awful lot of GB Energy's customers feeling downright miffed at the whole saga.

    You may not agree with my own viewpoint, but I'm not going to shift away from Npower because quite frankly, I feel safe and comfortable with their service and billing as things currently stand. I don't feel as though I'm in any way being ripped off, I'm paying less for my energy than many people. I just don't want to move to an energy company I know practically nothing about, with possibly little customer feedback, perhaps tied to poor billing or poor customer service and maybe with no support even for Smart Meters if I had them? Why would I want to put myself in that position just to save a few quid a year? That's my risk aversion sorted!

    The following link is an interesting view:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/02/co-op-energy-chief-david-bird-more-small-suppliers-could-go-bust
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