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  • FIRST POST
    • wal123g
    • By wal123g 7th Sep 17, 4:03 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 7Thanks
    wal123g
    Smart parking, Zenith, Gladstones - Northern Ireland
    • #1
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:03 PM
    Smart parking, Zenith, Gladstones - Northern Ireland 7th Sep 17 at 4:03 PM
    Hi all,

    I have been receiving debt collector letter from smart parking and zenith (another trading name of smart parking) for approximately one year for an alleged parking offence from August 2016 on a retail site that has a 2 hours parking restriction.

    Until now I have been ignoring the letter but this week I have received from one Gladstone, from research on this forum I have determined it has been sent from DRP as the reference code begins with 3 and requests payment made to DRP therefore will not be paying the requested £170.

    Unfortunately I am only finding this forum now so I have not lodged any appeals, I have read the newbies section which for NI states,

    If in Scotland/NI:

    Apart from (of course!!) complaining to the landowner/retailer you should IGNORE your fake PCN unless you are not the registered keeper and that is a company (hire car or leased/company vehicle).*

    You are safe to ignore because there is no worthwhile appeals process - do not believe what the fake PCN says! This Watchdog video still applies in Scotland and NI because a PPC has to know who was driving (unlike in England/Wales now):

    WHEN IGNORING IN SCOTLAND/NI, KEEP ALL LETTERS. DO NOT THROW THEM AWAY.


    I now want to deal with the matter but I feel a bit lost. I would greatly appreciate if someone could point me to the correct step in the newbies where I should start. Is it too late to complain or appeal?

    Many thanks in advance!
Page 1
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 7th Sep 17, 4:07 PM
    • 7,654 Posts
    • 7,914 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #2
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:07 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:07 PM
    Hi all,

    I have been receiving debt collector letter from smart parking and zenith (another trading name of smart parking) for approximately one year for an alleged parking offence from August 2016 on a retail site that has a 2 hours parking restriction.

    Until now I have been ignoring the letter but this week I have received from one Gladstone, from research on this forum I have determined it has been sent from DRP as the reference code begins with 3 and requests payment made to DRP therefore will not be paying the requested £170.

    Unfortunately I am only finding this forum now so I have not lodged any appeals, I have read the newbies section which for NI states,

    If in Scotland/NI:

    Apart from (of course!!) complaining to the landowner/retailer you should IGNORE your fake PCN unless you are not the registered keeper and that is a company (hire car or leased/company vehicle).*

    You are safe to ignore because there is no worthwhile appeals process - do not believe what the fake PCN says! This Watchdog video still applies in Scotland and NI because a PPC has to know who was driving (unlike in England/Wales now):

    WHEN IGNORING IN SCOTLAND/NI, KEEP ALL LETTERS. DO NOT THROW THEM AWAY.


    I now want to deal with the matter but I feel a bit lost. I would greatly appreciate if someone could point me to the correct step in the newbies where I should start. Is it too late to complain or appeal?

    Many thanks in advance!
    Originally posted by wal123g

    f in Scotland/NI:

    Apart from (of course!!) complaining to the landowner/retailer you should IGNORE your fake PCN unless you are not the registered keeper and that is a company (hire car or leased/company vehicle).*

    You are safe to ignore because there is no worthwhile appeals process - do not believe what the fake PCN says! This Watchdog video still applies in Scotland and NI because a PPC has to know who was driving (unlike in England/Wales now):

    WHEN IGNORING IN SCOTLAND/NI, KEEP ALL LETTERS. DO NOT THROW THEM AWAY.
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 7th Sep 17, 4:10 PM
    • 7,790 Posts
    • 7,884 Thanks
    pogofish
    • #3
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:10 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:10 PM
    Also, if this has gone-on for a full year, there won't be much else you can do but take the debt collector advice in Post 4 - Unless you can get the landowner to cancel it, which TBH is normally best done early-on.
    • StaffsSW
    • By StaffsSW 7th Sep 17, 4:10 PM
    • 5,377 Posts
    • 5,414 Thanks
    StaffsSW
    • #4
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:10 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:10 PM
    Are you in Northern Ireland, or was the ticket issued in Northern Ireland?

    I'd be inclined to reply to all parties with a simply "GFY" letter along the lines of,

    "Dear Gallstones,

    I note that POFA 2102 Schedule 4 only applies to charges issued to, and/or vehicles registered in England and Wales.

    As the vehicle is registered in NI/the charge was issued in NI, the keeper can not be held liable for any alleged debt. Please refer the matter back to your clients for their consideration,

    Love and hugs,

    Wal123g"
    <--- Nothing to see here - move along --->
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 7th Sep 17, 4:14 PM
    • 3,496 Posts
    • 3,553 Thanks
    DoaM
    • #5
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:14 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:14 PM
    Are you in Northern Ireland, or was the ticket issued in Northern Ireland?

    I'd be inclined to reply to all parties with a simply "GFY" letter along the lines of,

    "Dear Gallstones,

    I note that POFA 2102 Schedule 4 only applies to charges issued to, and/or vehicles registered in England and Wales.

    As the vehicle is registered in NI/the charge was issued in NI, the keeper can not be held liable for any alleged debt. Please refer the matter back to your clients for their consideration to Arkell vs Pressdram,

    Love and hugs,

    Wal123g"
    Originally posted by StaffsSW
    Suggested alternative.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • waamo
    • By waamo 7th Sep 17, 4:27 PM
    • 2,100 Posts
    • 2,506 Thanks
    waamo
    • #6
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:27 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:27 PM
    you should IGNORE your fake PCN
    Which part of that are you struggling to understand?
    This space for hire.
    • wal123g
    • By wal123g 7th Sep 17, 4:30 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    wal123g
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:30 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:30 PM
    Suggested alternative.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    Thanks StaffsSW and DoaM

    Yes I am in NI and ticket was issued here, does that effect your suggestion?
    • wal123g
    • By wal123g 7th Sep 17, 4:33 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    wal123g
    • #8
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:33 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:33 PM
    Which part of that are you struggling to understand?
    Originally posted by waamo
    I am really just wanting peace of mind if ignoring is still the best policy since Gladstone have "supposedly" got involved. I read in another post (not sure if it was on this forum or not) that as it went to a Gladstone, even if just their letter head at the minute, that it means it will eventually go to court?
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 7th Sep 17, 4:36 PM
    • 7,654 Posts
    • 7,914 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #9
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:36 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Sep 17, 4:36 PM
    if it does get to court in NI , please tell everyone , because it would be a first
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Sep 17, 4:37 PM
    • 15,566 Posts
    • 24,303 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I am really just wanting peace of mind if ignoring is still the best policy since Gladstone have "supposedly" got involved. I read in another post (not sure if it was on this forum or not) that as it went to a Gladstone, even if just their letter head at the minute, that it means it will eventually go to court?
    Originally posted by wal123g
    You'd be the very first private parking case taken to court in NI either fronted by Gladstones, or anyone else for that matter - as far as we are aware, and I'm sure we would be if one had been attempted.

    Sleep easy.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • wal123g
    • By wal123g 7th Sep 17, 4:38 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    wal123g
    if it does get to court in NI , please tell everyone , because it would be a first
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    Wow this is music to my ears!!

    Hopefully you'll not hear from me again then
    • waamo
    • By waamo 7th Sep 17, 5:01 PM
    • 2,100 Posts
    • 2,506 Thanks
    waamo
    Just to warn you they will continue to bombard you with scary letters that aren't soft, strong or very, very long.
    This space for hire.
    • StaffsSW
    • By StaffsSW 7th Sep 17, 5:18 PM
    • 5,377 Posts
    • 5,414 Thanks
    StaffsSW
    I am really just wanting peace of mind if ignoring is still the best policy since Gladstone have "supposedly" got involved. I read in another post (not sure if it was on this forum or not) that as it went to a Gladstone, even if just their letter head at the minute, that it means it will eventually go to court?
    Originally posted by wal123g
    Gladstones will get paid by the PPC whether you reply or not, even if it went to court and you won, Gladstones would still get paid by the PPC...

    Send them all the letter that I suggested further up, and I can assure you that it will never get as far as a judge.

    Just never admit to being the driver, just the keeper.
    <--- Nothing to see here - move along --->
    • StaffsSW
    • By StaffsSW 7th Sep 17, 5:22 PM
    • 5,377 Posts
    • 5,414 Thanks
    StaffsSW
    Just a thought - Could this be DRP/Zenith (two cheeks of the same butt) using the old Gladstones letterheads?

    What address or phone number is on the letter from Gladstones?
    <--- Nothing to see here - move along --->
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Sep 17, 5:35 PM
    • 15,566 Posts
    • 24,303 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Just a thought - Could this be DRP/Zenith (two cheeks of the same butt) using the old Gladstones letterheads?
    Originally posted by StaffsSW
    The OP has already identified the real source.

    I have determined it has been sent from DRP as the reference code begins with 3
    Any letter actually from Gs has a reference number commencing '1'.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Sep 17, 5:38 PM
    • 51,565 Posts
    • 65,178 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I am really just wanting peace of mind if ignoring is still the best policy since Gladstone have "supposedly" got involved. I read in another post (not sure if it was on this forum or not) that as it went to a Gladstone, even if just their letter head at the minute, that it means it will eventually go to court?
    Originally posted by wal123g
    Well no, because we've never seen a court claim in NI (the firm would have to travel to your local court!) and Gladstones' letter-heading is used by debt collectors & firms like G24, who NEVER sue.

    So no, a G's letter doesn't mean they are getting serious. It's all part of the letter chain.

    And Smart Parking do not use the POFA 2012 and can't hold a registered keeper liable anyway, even for land in England and Wales. In NI the POFA doesn't apply in law, at all, so Smart would have to prove who was driving, to tip the balance of probabilities in their favour enough to have a hope in Hell of recovering a charge from a NI person.

    And no-one is going to tell them who was driving (are you?!) and their ANPR camera photos do not have some secret squirrel link to any database of names/faces, so even if it shows a vague blur of a face, they have NO CLUE who they are after.

    We will all eat our hats if you get a claim!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 07-09-2017 at 5:43 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 7th Sep 17, 5:50 PM
    • 6,353 Posts
    • 8,159 Thanks
    beamerguy
    I am really just wanting peace of mind if ignoring is still the best policy since Gladstone have "supposedly" got involved. I read in another post (not sure if it was on this forum or not) that as it went to a Gladstone, even if just their letter head at the minute, that it means it will eventually go to court?
    Originally posted by wal123g
    Don't worry about Gladstones, they are already known
    to the English/Welsh courts as completely incompetent

    If they tried courts in N.Ireland and indeed Scotland, they
    would prove to EVERYONE just how incompetent they really are

    Probably other silly debt collector letters to come saying stupid
    things or even a lower offer to settle. IGNORE

    Maybe the "almighty" Gladstones will give a lower offer in a last
    attempt to extort money from you but HEY, you now know
    there is nothing they will do

    So, the next step is to tell all your friends etc about these
    scammers if in N.Ireland

    YOU ARE ONLY THE KEEPER, YOU ARE NOT THE DRIVER
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • wal123g
    • By wal123g 8th Sep 17, 9:36 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    wal123g
    The OP has already identified the real source.

    Any letter actually from Gs has a reference number commencing '1'.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Well no, because we've never seen a court claim in NI (the firm would have to travel to your local court!) and Gladstones' letter-heading is used by debt collectors & firms like G24, who NEVER sue.

    So no, a G's letter doesn't mean they are getting serious. It's all part of the letter chain.

    And Smart Parking do not use the POFA 2012 and can't hold a registered keeper liable anyway, even for land in England and Wales. In NI the POFA doesn't apply in law, at all, so Smart would have to prove who was driving, to tip the balance of probabilities in their favour enough to have a hope in Hell of recovering a charge from a NI person.

    And no-one is going to tell them who was driving (are you?!) and their ANPR camera photos do not have some secret squirrel link to any database of names/faces, so even if it shows a vague blur of a face, they have NO CLUE who they are after.

    We will all eat our hats if you get a claim!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Don't worry about Gladstones, they are already known
    to the English/Welsh courts as completely incompetent

    If they tried courts in N.Ireland and indeed Scotland, they
    would prove to EVERYONE just how incompetent they really are

    Probably other silly debt collector letters to come saying stupid
    things or even a lower offer to settle. IGNORE

    Maybe the "almighty" Gladstones will give a lower offer in a last
    attempt to extort money from you but HEY, you now know
    there is nothing they will do

    So, the next step is to tell all your friends etc about these
    scammers if in N.Ireland

    YOU ARE ONLY THE KEEPER, YOU ARE NOT THE DRIVER
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    StaffSW - No phone number on the letter, very professional right!?
    The address is,
    The Terrace, High Legh Park Golf Club, Warrington Road, High Legh, Knutsford WA16 6AA
    which according to google is the correct address for Gladstone.

    Thanks everyone for all your advice, you have all definitely set my mind at ease. Have a great weekend
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 8th Sep 17, 10:12 AM
    • 6,353 Posts
    • 8,159 Thanks
    beamerguy
    StaffSW - No phone number on the letter, very professional right!?
    The address is,
    The Terrace, High Legh Park Golf Club, Warrington Road, High Legh, Knutsford WA16 6AA
    which according to google is the correct address for Gladstone.

    Thanks everyone for all your advice, you have all definitely set my mind at ease. Have a great weekend
    Originally posted by wal123g
    We already know they are not professional

    If they have a mad moment and proceed just let us know
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 8th Sep 17, 10:23 AM
    • 7,790 Posts
    • 7,884 Thanks
    pogofish
    How in the blazes did a NI/Debt Collector thread run to over twenty posts!

    OP. you are either grossly overthinking this to the point of obsession, or out to waste peoples time, which could be better used helping people who really have something to worry about!
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