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  • FIRST POST
    • tir21
    • By tir21 7th Sep 17, 3:53 PM
    • 948Posts
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    tir21
    could i describe this repair by Shorade as fraudulent?
    • #1
    • 7th Sep 17, 3:53 PM
    could i describe this repair by Shorade as fraudulent? 7th Sep 17 at 3:53 PM
    i want to leave a review describing this company as - 'in my experience' - fraudulent, but dont want to get sued for libel

    they said they would replace a broken headlight washer valve but just glued it into position with resin

    https://ibb.co/gBsg6v

    The MD later admited it was not up to their usual standard and paid for it to be repaired elsewhere
    Last edited by tir21; 07-09-2017 at 3:57 PM.
Page 4
    • tir21
    • By tir21 9th Sep 17, 2:37 PM
    • 948 Posts
    • 181 Thanks
    tir21
    hermione

    "and the damaged parts were not initially replaced as promised"

    the damaged part was in fact replaced though. Its just that when it was replaced it was glued into position rather than being attached to a bracket.

    it could not be attached to the bracket because the bracket was shorn off in the impact

    my argument is without that bracket being there the job could never be done to an acceptable standard. Other people on here are of the opinion that glueing the part into position was an acceptable alternative method of attaching it to the car

    however the valve attaches to a headlight washer cover which can be seen when looking at the bumper so if the valve is not in tbe correct position the cover will either not be central or will not be flush
    Last edited by tir21; 09-09-2017 at 2:47 PM.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 9th Sep 17, 3:39 PM
    • 9,624 Posts
    • 7,616 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    Fraudulent - no!
    Suffered financial loss - no
    Not to an acceptable standard - possibly.

    But as the damage has now been repaired to an acceptable standard without cost to you, it is time to move on with your life.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 9th Sep 17, 5:32 PM
    • 1,361 Posts
    • 897 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    just check out what defrauded means. Untill you understand the basics its going to be difficult to have any meaningful dialogue with you. thanks anyway though for your efforts
    Originally posted by tir21
    You are accusing the company of fraud, you are saying you are the victim of that fraud, therefore you are saying you have been defrauded.

    It's you that has decided that the company has committed fraud. Being less than honest does not make them fraudulent, and since they haven't defrauded you, they are not guilty of fraud.

    You've also been guilty of muddying the waters on this forum and preventing yourself getting the best advice because you insist on opening multiple threads.

    Why should people go to the trouble of trying to assist you when you make them search for all nine of the threads regarding your situation with this company.

    You've been inconsiderate in the multiple threads in spite of people asking you nicely to keep it to one thread and to ask the mods nicely if they will merge your threads. Due to the number of threads that wouldn't be a small task.

    Try and consider others a little more.
    • tir21
    • By tir21 9th Sep 17, 5:45 PM
    • 948 Posts
    • 181 Thanks
    tir21
    Fraudulent - no!
    Suffered financial loss - no
    Not to an acceptable standard - possibly.

    But as the damage has now been repaired to an acceptable standard without cost to you, it is time to move on with your life.
    Originally posted by lincroft1710
    Shorade knew that to return the car to its original condition would require a new bumper.

    That is the gain to themselves.

    I gave them multiple opportunities to return the washer cover on passenger side to match that on the driver side. This proved beyond them - I would contend - because they were not attempting to do the job correctly.

    The fact they did not mention the handicap that they were facing (ie a missing bracket) - is the dishonest element of their behaviour that leads me to believe they acted fraudulently
    • tir21
    • By tir21 9th Sep 17, 5:48 PM
    • 948 Posts
    • 181 Thanks
    tir21
    You are accusing the company of fraud, you are saying you are the victim of that fraud, therefore you are saying you have been defrauded.

    It's you that has decided that the company has committed fraud. Being less than honest does not make them fraudulent, and since they haven't defrauded you, they are not guilty of fraud.

    You've also been guilty of muddying the waters on this forum and preventing yourself getting the best advice because you insist on opening multiple threads.

    Why should people go to the trouble of trying to assist you when you make them search for all nine of the threads regarding your situation with this company.

    You've been inconsiderate in the multiple threads in spite of people asking you nicely to keep it to one thread and to ask the mods nicely if they will merge your threads. Due to the number of threads that wouldn't be a small task.

    Try and consider others a little more.
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    I've told you to come back when you know what defraud means
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 9th Sep 17, 6:03 PM
    • 1,361 Posts
    • 897 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    I've told you to come back when you know what defraud means
    Originally posted by tir21
    Stop being a patronising twonk. I know what defraud means and you haven't been defrauded.

    Grow up and go and ask the mods to merge your threads and show some consideration for others.
    • tir21
    • By tir21 9th Sep 17, 7:23 PM
    • 948 Posts
    • 181 Thanks
    tir21
    from the fraud act

    "the defendant's conduct must be dishonest"

    tick

    "his/her intention must be to make a gain; or cause a loss or the risk of a loss to another"

    tick
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 9th Sep 17, 8:45 PM
    • 9,943 Posts
    • 6,347 Thanks
    bigadaj
    from the fraud act

    "the defendant's conduct must be dishonest"

    tick

    "his/her intention must be to make a gain; or cause a loss or the risk of a loss to another"

    tick
    Originally posted by tir21
    You appear to think that you have definitely been defrauded.

    In which case take it to the police.

    I do t think you'll get very far but you can sue them for damages in a civil action, could be pricey but worth the risk from your perspective I'd suggest.
    • tir21
    • By tir21 9th Sep 17, 9:38 PM
    • 948 Posts
    • 181 Thanks
    tir21
    You appear to think that you have definitely been defrauded.

    In which case take it to the police.

    I do t think you'll get very far but you can sue them for damages in a civil action, could be pricey but worth the risk from your perspective I'd suggest.
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    actually the MD at shorade threatened to get the police onto me for leaving a review on shorades facebook page. Everytine I edited the review he thought i was writing a separate review and accused me of harassment. Hes not the brightest spark in the box either
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 9th Sep 17, 9:43 PM
    • 219 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    actually the MD at shorade threatened to get the police onto me for leaving a review on shorades facebook page. Everytine I edited the review he thought i was writing a separate review and accused me of harassment. Hes not the brightest spark in the box either
    Originally posted by tir21
    Nor are you but there you go.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 9th Sep 17, 10:27 PM
    • 1,361 Posts
    • 897 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    from the fraud act

    "the defendant's conduct must be dishonest"

    tick

    "his/her intention must be to make a gain; or cause a loss or the risk of a loss to another"

    tick
    Originally posted by tir21
    What financial loss have you suffered?

    If there is any, why aren't you suing them or reporting them to the police?

    I see you have reported some posters, why haven't you asked for the 9 threads you have made on this issue to be merged?
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 9th Sep 17, 10:30 PM
    • 1,361 Posts
    • 897 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    actually the MD at shorade threatened to get the police onto me for leaving a review on shorades facebook page. Everytine I edited the review he thought i was writing a separate review and accused me of harassment. Hes not the brightest spark in the box either
    Originally posted by tir21
    Perhaps you did what you do here and opened up 9 threads?
    • tir21
    • By tir21 9th Sep 17, 10:30 PM
    • 948 Posts
    • 181 Thanks
    tir21
    You appear to think that you have definitely been defrauded.

    In which case take it to the police..
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    trading standards will deal with a company that has acted fraudulently - in order for a customer to get recompense

    I would have taken it to trading standards if mr shore had not backed down as soon as he saw the photographs of the bodge his employees had carried out on my car

    the problem is that if you take it through trading standards or the county court and win the case and the company rectifies or pays for the problem to be rectufued - where is the disincentive for them to do it again?

    so shorade had the option of doing the job correctly ie fitting a new bumper or bodging it. They saved a lot of money by bodging it knowing if they got found out they would just have to pay to have it repaired - so would be no worse off


    "I do t think you'll get very far but you can sue them for damages in a civil action, could be pricey but worth the risk from your perspective I'd suggest.[/QUOTE]

    shorade paid for the car to be repaired elsewhere
    • tir21
    • By tir21 9th Sep 17, 10:32 PM
    • 948 Posts
    • 181 Thanks
    tir21
    Perhaps you did what you do here and opened up 9 threads?
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    no there is definitely only one review of mine on shorades facebook page
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 9th Sep 17, 10:34 PM
    • 1,361 Posts
    • 897 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    actually the MD at shorade threatened to get the police onto me for leaving a review on shorades facebook page. Everytine I edited the review he thought i was writing a separate review and accused me of harassment. Hes not the brightest spark in the box either
    Originally posted by tir21
    Hello Richard, or is it Deck for short?

    You are very obviously identified on their facebook site. Now who's not got all their tools in their shed?

    https://www.facebook.com/pg/ShoradeUK/reviews/

    5th review down.

    I hope you have evidence of fraud as there is now a pingback to this thread, and you will be jointly liable with the owners of this site for libel.
    Last edited by Mercdriver; 09-09-2017 at 10:40 PM.
    • tir21
    • By tir21 9th Sep 17, 10:38 PM
    • 948 Posts
    • 181 Thanks
    tir21
    What financial loss have you suffered?
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    I've explained this to you before but I'll explain it again because I like you

    this is from the fraud act:

    "his/her intention must be to make a gain; or cause a loss or the risk of a loss to another"

    please note the word 'or' in the above statement

    you might not like what the above statement implies but surely you can understand it
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 9th Sep 17, 10:41 PM
    • 1,361 Posts
    • 897 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    I've explained this to you before but I'll explain it again because I like you

    this is from the fraud act:

    "his/her intention must be to make a gain; or cause a loss or the risk of a loss to another"

    please note the word 'or' in the above statement

    you might not like what the above statement implies but surely you can understand it
    Originally posted by tir21
    They haven't made a gain. You haven't made a loss. Ergo, no fraud. You know it too, or else you would not be talking about it here as your lawyer would have told you not to talk about it in the real world, especially as you are clearly identifiable.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 9th Sep 17, 10:51 PM
    • 1,361 Posts
    • 897 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Besides, your question in this thread is purely incidental as you already described it as fraudulent in your review on Facebook.

    You could, but it's a different question whether you should. It's ill advised to make the accusation as any potential litigation from the company requires less body of proof than your accusation. You require proof beyond reasonable doubt, and he requires proof on the balance of probabilities.

    Why? Because Fraud is a criminal offence and libel is a civil matter.

    That makes your actions somewhat ill-judged (to be charitable)
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 9th Sep 17, 10:52 PM
    • 9,943 Posts
    • 6,347 Thanks
    bigadaj
    trading standards will deal with a company that has acted fraudulently - in order for a customer to get recompense

    I would have taken it to trading standards if mr shore had not backed down as soon as he saw the photographs of the bodge his employees had carried out on my car

    the problem is that if you take it through trading standards or the county court and win the case and the company rectifies or pays for the problem to be rectufued - where is the disincentive for them to do it again?

    so shorade had the option of doing the job correctly ie fitting a new bumper or bodging it. They saved a lot of money by bodging it knowing if they got found out they would just have to pay to have it repaired - so would be no worse off


    "I do t think you'll get very far but you can sue them for damages in a civil action, could be pricey but worth the risk from your perspective I'd suggest.
    Originally posted by tir21
    shorade paid for the car to be repaired elsewhere[/QUOTE]

    No, you appear to be backing down.

    You have stated the company has acted fraudulently, either make a criminal complaint or sue them, otherwise just be quiet.

    The fact you got trading standards involved and resolved the situation appears to suggest that the comoany isn't fraudulent.

    The fact the comoany paid for the car to be repaired elsewhere suggests they are not fraudulent.

    Do I need to go on?
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 9th Sep 17, 11:01 PM
    • 1,361 Posts
    • 897 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Do I need to go on?
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    I think this will roll on and on. I'm not sure the mods realise that the website owners can be potentially held responsible for libel here as they are publishing it on their website.

    Richard, I mean Tir21 has made it rather easy for himself to be traced. The fact that Richard, I mean Tir21 has opened up so many threads on this despite requests from posters and completely ignored this reinforces the company's view that Richard is harrasing them, as he is not innocently starting multiple threads he is doing it to get more complaints visible on google etc. This may make litigation more likely.

    Mods - if you are bothering to actually read what is happening here, the OP is cynically using the forum to tar the reputation of a company, something which this website can be sued for. If you fail to act on it then action may be taken against this website also for allowing allegedly libellous statements to be published. If a more watchful eye had been kept, you as mods could have merged his threads.
    Last edited by Mercdriver; 09-09-2017 at 11:04 PM.
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