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  • FIRST POST
    • Beautyrose170
    • By Beautyrose170 7th Sep 17, 9:35 AM
    • 21Posts
    • 4Thanks
    Beautyrose170
    maternity leave problems
    • #1
    • 7th Sep 17, 9:35 AM
    maternity leave problems 7th Sep 17 at 9:35 AM
    Hi

    I am going to go on maternity leave next month. I am not entitled to maternity pay due to being on ESA, as maternity pay would be classed as an income and not an earning and it will confuse the benefits system. So work are classing my maternity leave as a long leave of absence (1year)

    I have spoken to my job about this recently and been told this is what they plan to do:
    -Hand me my p45, so they can take me off of payrol as patrol do not want me on there payrol if I'm not being paid.
    -as my holiday is pro rata I will not be entitled to take any holiday left as I won't be working till April.
    -I will not accrue any holiday whilst away on maternity leave
    - I can come back at any time to work (no mention of the same job role though)

    I really feel like they are trying to push me out of the company and won't actually offer me my job back (which I assume this way they wouldn't need to) they also get away with not paying me any holiday entitlement of which for this year I have saved 10 days. If I come back (which I plan to do) I won't have accrued holiday.

    It seems as though handing me my p45 is cost effective for them but leaves me in a bad position.

    Is this allowed to be done or can I say I don't want that? Or is it down to the employer to decide what they would like to do about my leave. I plan to have another meeting to discuss this but I want to go back in fully informed of what I am and not entitled to

    Thank you
Page 1
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 7th Sep 17, 10:20 AM
    • 10,833 Posts
    • 12,698 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    • #2
    • 7th Sep 17, 10:20 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Sep 17, 10:20 AM
    If I remember correctly then you are doing Permitted Work whilst on ESA.

    You are not eligible for SMP but are eligible for Maternity Pay but this would be counted as income and deducted from your ESA.

    Maternity pay is not paid by your employer but you are still entitled to maternity leave. So, you should be able to take up to your one year's maternity leave from work.

    I do not understand why your employer is suggesting what they are suggesting.

    Read this to see your entitlements during maternity leave.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/rights-at-work/parental-rights/maternity-leave-what-youre-entitled-to-and-how-to-get-it/

    Can you get to CAB for help with this?

    Did you work out how much Maternity Pay you would get? If this puts you in a financial pickle then could the father of your expected child help out?

    Did you look up the 'extras' you can claim whilst pregnant?
    • Beautyrose170
    • By Beautyrose170 7th Sep 17, 10:37 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Beautyrose170
    • #3
    • 7th Sep 17, 10:37 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Sep 17, 10:37 AM
    I didn't look into how much maternity pay I would get paid as it would just be taken out of my benefits so I said I won't apply for it as it's easier not to have to worry about ensuring I am getting the right amount as I know what benefits can be like.

    I will be able to afford to get by without my wage, not a problem but I do want the reassurance that I will have a job after maternity leave as well as getting the benefits of maternity leave. For example the holiday accrued situation and the holiday I have left to take

    The father of the child will be helping to support his child but I do not expect him to support me (I like my independence and never ask for money from anyone). I will be able to survive without my wage as I will get extra benefits when baby is here to help me provide for him
    • polgara
    • By polgara 7th Sep 17, 11:45 AM
    • 326 Posts
    • 274 Thanks
    polgara
    • #4
    • 7th Sep 17, 11:45 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Sep 17, 11:45 AM
    Do not allow them to terminate your employment! Payroll should easily be able to put you down as on maternity leave and as you've pointed out you are entitled to accrue annual leave during your maternity
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 7th Sep 17, 11:46 AM
    • 4,098 Posts
    • 4,227 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #5
    • 7th Sep 17, 11:46 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Sep 17, 11:46 AM
    Unless I'm missing something, a P45 is only issued when employment terminates. On that basis, it does seem that they are pushing the OP out of the company, thereby avoiding the paperwork involved in making the MA payments.
    This link https://www.gov.uk/maternity-allowance/what-youll-get will enable the OP to work out what their MA entitlement would be. I can see no reason not to claim MA when in receipt of ESA.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 7th Sep 17, 12:51 PM
    • 4,028 Posts
    • 6,525 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #6
    • 7th Sep 17, 12:51 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Sep 17, 12:51 PM
    Hi

    I am going to go on maternity leave next month. I am not entitled to maternity pay due to being on ESA, as maternity pay would be classed as an income and not an earning and it will confuse the benefits system. So work are classing my maternity leave as a long leave of absence (1year)

    I have spoken to my job about this recently and been told this is what they plan to do:
    -Hand me my p45, so they can take me off of payrol as patrol do not want me on there payrol if I'm not being paid.
    -as my holiday is pro rata I will not be entitled to take any holiday left as I won't be working till April.
    -I will not accrue any holiday whilst away on maternity leave
    - I can come back at any time to work (no mention of the same job role though)

    I really feel like they are trying to push me out of the company and won't actually offer me my job back (which I assume this way they wouldn't need to) they also get away with not paying me any holiday entitlement of which for this year I have saved 10 days. If I come back (which I plan to do) I won't have accrued holiday.

    It seems as though handing me my p45 is cost effective for them but leaves me in a bad position.

    Is this allowed to be done or can I say I don't want that? Or is it down to the employer to decide what they would like to do about my leave. I plan to have another meeting to discuss this but I want to go back in fully informed of what I am and not entitled to

    Thank you
    Originally posted by Beautyrose170

    In a year, they don't have to offer you "your" job back anyway. They can offer you any suitable alternative - your original job is only protected for six months. And if your job is no longer there and there is nothing else, they can still make you redundant. Redundancy is hard whilst on maternity leave - not impossible. Equally, you can be made redundant the minute you return from maternity leave.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 7th Sep 17, 3:10 PM
    • 4,098 Posts
    • 4,227 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 17, 3:10 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 17, 3:10 PM
    Sangie, is it normal for a P45 to be issued is somebody is going off on maternity leave?
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 7th Sep 17, 3:41 PM
    • 1,648 Posts
    • 3,409 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #8
    • 7th Sep 17, 3:41 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Sep 17, 3:41 PM
    (I like my independence and never ask for money from anyone).
    Originally posted by Beautyrose170
    Erm ...

    I did I will get extra benefits when baby is here to help me provide for him
    Originally posted by Beautyrose170
    Best wishes for your new arrival.
    Last edited by IAmWales; 07-09-2017 at 3:54 PM.
    • Kayalana99
    • By Kayalana99 7th Sep 17, 5:06 PM
    • 3,336 Posts
    • 5,969 Thanks
    Kayalana99
    • #9
    • 7th Sep 17, 5:06 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Sep 17, 5:06 PM
    Sangie, is it normal for a P45 to be issued is somebody is going off on maternity leave?
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    No it's not. The problem with the p45 is the OP is entitled to her 10 days holiday (and should be paid this in a lump sum if given her P45 to be fair) and also entitled to further holiday pay + her job back after it ends (even if it is a different one on the same rate of pay)

    Tbh I'd be half tempted to let them carry on with what they are doing as no court would rule in their favour...it's wrongful termination and illegal and long as OP could prove she was 'fired' for being pregnat...

    https://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/08/ex-chipotle-employee-awarded-550k-in-pregnancy-discrimination-lawsuit.html

    https://www.justanswer.com/employment-law/4hhrb-terminated-job-pregnant.html
    Last edited by Kayalana99; 07-09-2017 at 5:09 PM.
    People don't know what they want until you show them.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 7th Sep 17, 5:41 PM
    • 4,028 Posts
    • 6,525 Thanks
    sangie595
    But it's a lovely place to work and just like family - said the OP previously - and all about family values. And the OP isn't after money. So I am perplexed why the OP needs to starts threads about their rights and not trusting them.

    So no, it isn't normal to issue a P45. But I go back to my previous comments. The OP works a handful of hours per week, and only has a few months service. If they really want to start demanding their rights and dictating the law to the employer, then every bit of goodwill goes out of the window. And getting rid of the OP, pregnant or not, is going to become a target.

    And Kayalana90. To go to a tribunal you first have to attempt to resolve the situation. And go through meditation. The fastest way to paint that target on your back is to "let then carry on" and attempt to go straight to a tribunal. Because all the employer needs to do is say "but she never said a thing, we didn't know she wasn't happy, and of course she can have her job when she gets back" and the matter is finished. But they will later dismiss her for something else entirely. It's also not "wrongful termination" because that is something completely different. And it's unlawful - illegal is something completely different. And it may not actually be either of those things at all. So your assertion as to what it is based on something you read on the internet - really poor advice. OP, don't even think about it. You are not about to win £500,000. I can guarantee you that if it were a case, and you don't have one yet, £5k would be a huge win for you. And you probably wouldn't even get that. More likely £1k or so, possibly, and a reference that will ensure nobody employs you again. People who think that waltzing into tribunals and coming out with huge payouts is common have never set foot in one!

    _________
    edit - and oh ffs - both of those links are US law. That is why there are $ signs in the articles! What on earth user is US law to the OP?
    Last edited by sangie595; 07-09-2017 at 5:46 PM.
    • t0rt0ise
    • By t0rt0ise 7th Sep 17, 5:45 PM
    • 2,926 Posts
    • 1,792 Thanks
    t0rt0ise
    It seems to me that it's the OPs fault for trying to keep ESA instead of claiming maternity pay. Puts the employer in a difficult position.
    • pioneer22
    • By pioneer22 7th Sep 17, 9:09 PM
    • 417 Posts
    • 155 Thanks
    pioneer22
    No Father around or not together
    Mental Health issues and on ESA
    Getting pregnant without due care as to how to pay for said baby

    Sounds like a winner.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 7th Sep 17, 9:18 PM
    • 4,028 Posts
    • 6,525 Thanks
    sangie595
    No Father around or not together
    Mental Health issues and on ESA
    Getting pregnant without due care as to how to pay for said baby

    Sounds like a winner.
    Originally posted by pioneer22
    I am not sure how you came to those particular conclusions, but if only 100% fit people with good jobs and the ability to afford children were allowed to become pregnant, the human race would be extinct in 2 generations. There is a difference between "not pushing your luck", which the OP appears to be doing with their employer, and having no right to a life. In the latter case, you have crossed a line. You have no idea what the OP's personal circumstances and decision making processes were, and having mental health issues does not make someone an incapable parent.
    • pioneer22
    • By pioneer22 7th Sep 17, 9:30 PM
    • 417 Posts
    • 155 Thanks
    pioneer22
    I am not sure how you came to those particular conclusions, but if only 100% fit people with good jobs and the ability to afford children were allowed to become pregnant, the human race would be extinct in 2 generations. There is a difference between "not pushing your luck", which the OP appears to be doing with their employer, and having no right to a life. In the latter case, you have crossed a line. You have no idea what the OP's personal circumstances and decision making processes were, and having mental health issues does not make someone an incapable parent.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Seems like there wasn't much due consideration or due care before getting pregnant in terms of how this baby is going to be funded.

    The OP doesn't want to "confuse the benefits system" by letting the company push her out.

    If you can get pregnant and look after a baby full time I don't see why you would be on ESA and not be able to work full time.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 8th Sep 17, 7:53 AM
    • 4,028 Posts
    • 6,525 Thanks
    sangie595
    Seems like there wasn't much due consideration or due care before getting pregnant in terms of how this baby is going to be funded.

    The OP doesn't want to "confuse the benefits system" by letting the company push her out.

    If you can get pregnant and look after a baby full time I don't see why you would be on ESA and not be able to work full time.
    Originally posted by pioneer22
    But that isn't what we are discussing, and it isn't up to us to decide this. The OP is on ESA and given how hard it is to get that now, we have to assume that their claim had been tested. And you could turn it on its head - despite being on ESA and entitled to sit at home doing nothing, they have opted to work and to try to get better so that they could work in the future. Given that the authorities know about the permitted work, they must see the OP being out and working as a positive thing. Which I do too.

    That is all a very different thing than talking about a strategy that keeps the employer on board and positive about welcoming back the OP when - and if - they are able to return to work.
    • Kayalana99
    • By Kayalana99 8th Sep 17, 8:10 AM
    • 3,336 Posts
    • 5,969 Thanks
    Kayalana99
    But it's a lovely place to work and just like family - said the OP previously - and all about family values. And the OP isn't after money. So I am perplexed why the OP needs to starts threads about their rights and not trusting them.

    So no, it isn't normal to issue a P45. But I go back to my previous comments. The OP works a handful of hours per week, and only has a few months service. If they really want to start demanding their rights and dictating the law to the employer, then every bit of goodwill goes out of the window. And getting rid of the OP, pregnant or not, is going to become a target.

    And Kayalana90. To go to a tribunal you first have to attempt to resolve the situation. And go through meditation. The fastest way to paint that target on your back is to "let then carry on" and attempt to go straight to a tribunal. Because all the employer needs to do is say "but she never said a thing, we didn't know she wasn't happy, and of course she can have her job when she gets back" and the matter is finished. But they will later dismiss her for something else entirely. It's also not "wrongful termination" because that is something completely different. And it's unlawful - illegal is something completely different. And it may not actually be either of those things at all. So your assertion as to what it is based on something you read on the internet - really poor advice. OP, don't even think about it. You are not about to win £500,000. I can guarantee you that if it were a case, and you don't have one yet, £5k would be a huge win for you. And you probably wouldn't even get that. More likely £1k or so, possibly, and a reference that will ensure nobody employs you again. People who think that waltzing into tribunals and coming out with huge payouts is common have never set foot in one!

    _________
    edit - and oh ffs - both of those links are US law. That is why there are $ signs in the articles! What on earth user is US law to the OP?
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Calm down. Giving someone a p45 with the 'promise' of re hiring them because they are pregnant IS ILLEGAL. There is no 'special case' here. Meditation and trying to solve the issue would become null because she is getting FIRED.

    They can word it however they like, but she is essentially being sacked on the promise of a new job (which they wouldn't have to honour as she'd no longer work for them offically) when she is ready to come back in a year and it's being done at her expense so they can save costs.

    None of this is fair, and she'd have an excellent case.
    Last edited by Kayalana99; 08-09-2017 at 8:13 AM.
    People don't know what they want until you show them.
    • Beautyrose170
    • By Beautyrose170 8th Sep 17, 8:53 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Beautyrose170
    Unless I'm missing something, a P45 is only issued when employment terminates. On that basis, it does seem that they are pushing the OP out of the company, thereby avoiding the paperwork involved in making the MA payments.
    This link https://www.gov.uk/maternity-allowance/what-youll-get will enable the OP to work out what their MA entitlement would be. I can see no reason not to claim MA when in receipt of ESA.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    I don't want to claim MA as they just deduct it from my ESA and I don't want to end up with not the same money as ESA can't cope with that. Things like this always confuse them
    • Beautyrose170
    • By Beautyrose170 8th Sep 17, 8:55 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Beautyrose170
    Erm ...



    Best wishes for your new arrival.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    I'm claiming what every child is entitled to child benefit and child tax credits! Every child is entitled? Regardless of being on benefits?

    I'm on ESA, I don't have to be working but guess what I go out and work. I can't work full time but atleast I do the hours I can. Atleast I don't sit on my back side all day every day?
    • Beautyrose170
    • By Beautyrose170 8th Sep 17, 9:01 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Beautyrose170
    But it's a lovely place to work and just like family - said the OP previously - and all about family values. And the OP isn't after money. So I am perplexed why the OP needs to starts threads about their rights and not trusting them.

    So no, it isn't normal to issue a P45. But I go back to my previous comments. The OP works a handful of hours per week, and only has a few months service. If they really want to start demanding their rights and dictating the law to the employer, then every bit of goodwill goes out of the window. And getting rid of the OP, pregnant or not, is going to become a target.

    And Kayalana90. To go to a tribunal you first have to attempt to resolve the situation. And go through meditation. The fastest way to paint that target on your back is to "let then carry on" and attempt to go straight to a tribunal. Because all the employer needs to do is say "but she never said a thing, we didn't know she wasn't happy, and of course she can have her job when she gets back" and the matter is finished. But they will later dismiss her for something else entirely. It's also not "wrongful termination" because that is something completely different. And it's unlawful - illegal is something completely different. And it may not actually be either of those things at all. So your assertion as to what it is based on something you read on the internet - really poor advice. OP, don't even think about it. You are not about to win £500,000. I can guarantee you that if it were a case, and you don't have one yet, £5k would be a huge win for you. And you probably wouldn't even get that. More likely £1k or so, possibly, and a reference that will ensure nobody employs you again. People who think that waltzing into tribunals and coming out with huge payouts is common have never set foot in one!

    _________
    edit - and oh ffs - both of those links are US law. That is why there are $ signs in the articles! What on earth user is US law to the OP?
    Originally posted by sangie595
    I wouldn't trust any employer who turns round and says we will give you your p45 and your not going to get your holiday. Yes family is a core value and up until now they have been brilliant with me at work and it's only this that is now a problem. I just wanted to know my rights And are they allowed to give me a p45 instead of maternity as well as not give me any holiday entitlement or accrue holiday

    When I go on maternity leave I would have been working there over a year and I work 16 hours a week (which in my job is classed as full time- stated in my contract - others work less between 6-10 hours per week)

    I'm not after money or taking to tribuneral money doesn't mean a lot to me. I just want what I'm entitled too. If I'm entitled to my holiday then surely I should get it.

    And I also want to ensure I have a job to go back to as I love my job and couldn't imagine doing anything else
    • Beautyrose170
    • By Beautyrose170 8th Sep 17, 9:03 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Beautyrose170
    No Father around or not together
    Mental Health issues and on ESA
    Getting pregnant without due care as to how to pay for said baby

    Sounds like a winner.
    Originally posted by pioneer22
    Father is around and is supporting me throughout. This child was planned? Are people on esa and with mental Health not allowed children? Must have missed the memo

    I know how I'm going to pay for this child by working. Some people on esa don't bother working as they don't have to but I do
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