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  • FIRST POST
    • Scarloc99
    • By Scarloc99 7th Sep 17, 8:45 AM
    • 5Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Scarloc99
    EE and Apple refuse to accept liability under Sales of Goods and Services Act
    • #1
    • 7th Sep 17, 8:45 AM
    EE and Apple refuse to accept liability under Sales of Goods and Services Act 7th Sep 17 at 8:45 AM
    Last June (2016) I had an Iphone 5S on an EE contract. In November/December time the Phone developed a fault (kept turning on and off by itself). I reported the phone to EE who put me in contact with Apple who confirmed it was a hardware fault and replaced the phone.

    4 weeks ago this replacement phone developed the same fault, again I spoke to EE they directed me to Apple who confirmed it was again a hardware issue but because the 1yrs Warranty had now expired I would have to pay £230 for a new handset. I then spoke to EE who instrucetd me to send the phone to there own repair centre. This week I had an email from EE confirming the issue is a Hardware problem and that it will cost me £230 for a replacement.

    I did some research spoke to Citizens advice to confirm what I had read and armed with that called EE back insisting that as the fault has been confirmed to be a hardware issue, it is the same fault as I had previously and the replacement handset is only 8 months old I felt I had a valid claim under the sale of goods act. EE bounced me from person to person and finally I was told that I needed to contact Apple as they supplied the replacement phone.

    I promptly called Apple and to be fair I got through to someone to discuss the issue very quickly. He confirmed that yes I definatly have a valid claim, but he advised me that even though Apple suppllied the replacement my claim is still against EE as the retailer. He sent me a load of information I already had about my rights etc and has given me his own contact details and work schedule so i can contact him direct if I need to.

    I contacted EE back and stated I was making a claim under the Act for my faulty phone. 24 hours later they contacted me to tell me that my claim was with Apple as they replaced the original handset.

    Brian, the Apple contact is not back in until tomorrow so i just wanted to see if anyone else had run into similair issues or knew what the legal position is here. Is it Apple or EE I need to take this up with and if this deadlock continues who do I make the claim against. Also can I claim for the time and inconveniance this has caused me, currently I have been 4 weeks without a phone now meaning I am paying for a phone Contract I can't use.

    Richard
Page 1
    • d123
    • By d123 7th Sep 17, 11:00 AM
    • 6,693 Posts
    • 4,268 Thanks
    d123
    • #2
    • 7th Sep 17, 11:00 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Sep 17, 11:00 AM
    Apple have no obligation to you once their warranty has expired, your consumer rights are with your retailer, if you bought the phone from EE then that is who you need to be speaking to.

    You may have a problem if you went direct to Apple for the last replacement.
    ====
    • Jon 01
    • By Jon 01 7th Sep 17, 11:04 AM
    • 4,945 Posts
    • 1,566 Thanks
    Jon 01
    • #3
    • 7th Sep 17, 11:04 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Sep 17, 11:04 AM
    I'd say it was Apple. You no longer have the phone that EE supplied to you, so I doubt you have redress there.

    The problem with Apple will be, you don't get a new warranty when you change the phone, it runs from the date you had the first handset (or people could just keep taking 'stuff' back and have an endless warranty.

    Apple will only honor 12 months if the iPhone was bought through a network, it's 24 months if bought from them direct.
    I think you're going to have to try to get some 'goodwill' from Apple and keep everything crossed. . .
    • Scarloc99
    • By Scarloc99 7th Sep 17, 11:53 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Scarloc99
    • #4
    • 7th Sep 17, 11:53 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Sep 17, 11:53 AM
    Have spoken to citezans Advice and they have confirmed that my claim is with EE as the original retailer.

    Just tried EE again. They have stated that I have no claim with them under the consumer rights act as I must prove the fault was present from the first day i had the phone. My understanding was that I was in my rights to expect the Phone should last more then 8 months (the time since I had the replacement) without developing a fault.

    There own repair centre has confirmed that the phone has not been dropped and has not got wet and therefore it is a fault. However wont confirm the fault is inherent.

    Any advice as to my next steps?
    Last edited by Scarloc99; 07-09-2017 at 11:56 AM.
    • Jon 01
    • By Jon 01 7th Sep 17, 12:32 PM
    • 4,945 Posts
    • 1,566 Thanks
    Jon 01
    • #5
    • 7th Sep 17, 12:32 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Sep 17, 12:32 PM
    I'd check with somewhere like Trading Standards, some the 'advice' you get from Citizens Advice is just plain wrong (been there and found they don't have a clue sometimes).
    • d123
    • By d123 7th Sep 17, 12:40 PM
    • 6,693 Posts
    • 4,268 Thanks
    d123
    • #6
    • 7th Sep 17, 12:40 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Sep 17, 12:40 PM
    Have spoken to citezans Advice and they have confirmed that my claim is with EE as the original retailer.

    Just tried EE again. They have stated that I have no claim with them under the consumer rights act as I must prove the fault was present from the first day i had the phone. My understanding was that I was in my rights to expect the Phone should last more then 8 months (the time since I had the replacement) without developing a fault.

    There own repair centre has confirmed that the phone has not been dropped and has not got wet and therefore it is a fault. However wont confirm the fault is inherent.

    Any advice as to my next steps?
    Originally posted by Scarloc99
    After 6 months the onus is on you to prove the fault is inherent. Your next steps, should you so choose, would be to commission an independent expert’s report and then consider taking EE to court to claim the repair cost.
    ====
    • Scarloc99
    • By Scarloc99 7th Sep 17, 12:52 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Scarloc99
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 17, 12:52 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 17, 12:52 PM
    @d123

    With an Apple device could I get Apple to complete that independant review? Not sure who else would be able to do that?

    The below is the latest response from EE.

    I am contacting you in relation to our recent conversation. I acknowledge your iPhone 5s has developed a fault and you have requested that EE replace this for you.

    I am sorry you feel unhappy with the situation however your iPhone 5s was supplied with a 12 month manufacturer’s warranty which expired back on 7 June 2017. As your current phone developed a fault after this date, any repair or replacement would be chargeable.

    I understand you received a replacement phone from Apple in December 2016 which was during your warranty period. Any replacement part or product or a repaired Apple Product assumes the remaining warranty of the original Apple Product or ninety days from the date of replacement or repair, whichever provides longer coverage for you. This means that your 12 month manufacturer’s warranty still expired on 7 June 2017 so any repair or replacement option would be chargeable.

    Only if the fault is inherent will we replace the device ourselves outside of the first 30 days. As your phone is over 12 months, it is your responsibility to prove to EE that the fault was inherent from point of manufacturer.

    If you remain unhappy with the situation and wish to take your complaint further, please refer to our Codes Of Practice on our website This explains our escalation procedure and the next steps you can take.

    Please accept my apologies for any confusion which may have been caused, I trust the above information has confirmed our position on the matter.
    Last edited by Scarloc99; 07-09-2017 at 1:08 PM.
    • d123
    • By d123 7th Sep 17, 1:14 PM
    • 6,693 Posts
    • 4,268 Thanks
    d123
    • #8
    • 7th Sep 17, 1:14 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Sep 17, 1:14 PM
    @d123

    With an Apple device could I get Apple to complete that independant review? Not sure who else would be able to do that?

    The below is the latest response from EE.

    I am contacting you in relation to our recent conversation. I acknowledge your iPhone 5s has developed a fault and you have requested that EE replace this for you.

    I am sorry you feel unhappy with the situation however your iPhone 5s was supplied with a 12 month manufacturer’s warranty which expired back on 7 June 2017. As your current phone developed a fault after this date, any repair or replacement would be chargeable.

    I understand you received a replacement phone from Apple in December 2016 which was during your warranty period. Any replacement part or product or a repaired Apple Product assumes the remaining warranty of the original Apple Product or ninety days from the date of replacement or repair, whichever provides longer coverage for you. This means that your 12 month manufacturer’s warranty still expired on 7 June 2017 so any repair or replacement option would be chargeable.

    Only if the fault is inherent will we replace the device ourselves outside of the first 30 days. As your phone is over 12 months, it is your responsibility to prove to EE that the fault was inherent from point of manufacturer.

    If you remain unhappy with the situation and wish to take your complaint further, please refer to our Codes Of Practice on our website This explains our escalation procedure and the next steps you can take.

    Please accept my apologies for any confusion which may have been caused Mr Cariven, I trust the above information has confirmed our position on the matter.
    Originally posted by Scarloc99
    That text is in line with the law.

    You could ask Apple, whether they would give you a report and be prepared to attend court if required, I would be surprised if they would agree to do so though...
    ====
    • 20aday
    • By 20aday 7th Sep 17, 3:59 PM
    • 2,061 Posts
    • 867 Thanks
    20aday
    • #9
    • 7th Sep 17, 3:59 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Sep 17, 3:59 PM
    You could try getting a report from an authorised Apple reseller if you have one nearby?

    My three year old mid-2011 iMac 21.5” developed a problem with the LCD panel despite me looking after it. Paid KRCS in Derby £29.99 to diagnose the issue and was quoted £480 to get it replaced; based on the report I quoted the then SoGA and Apple repaired it free of charge.

    Might help OP, it might not.
    It's not your credit score that counts, it's your credit history. Any replies are my own personal opinion and not a representation of my employer.
    • simax
    • By simax 7th Sep 17, 6:46 PM
    • 1,763 Posts
    • 604 Thanks
    simax
    The fact is also that as Apple replaced the phone, it’s not the same phone as EE supplied so SOGA does not apply as the inherent fault rule cannot be tested as the phone is different.
    I say it as it is - you may not like that but what would you prefer? A string of false platitudes that are no help whatsoever just to make you feel better? If my advice has helped, please press the Thanks button over here ----------------V. Cheers
    • phillw
    • By phillw 8th Sep 17, 7:07 PM
    • 937 Posts
    • 555 Thanks
    phillw
    The fact is also that as Apple replaced the phone, it’s not the same phone as EE supplied so SOGA does not apply as the inherent fault rule cannot be tested as the phone is different.
    Originally posted by simax
    The rights of the SOGA transfer to the replacement, but only from the original date. Otherwise they could just send you someone elses phone that has failed and say to go whistle as it's now not the same phone that you bought.

    Although SOGA is outdated, in 2015 it became "Consumer Rights Act"

    Which says:

    "If the attempt at a repair or replacement is unsuccessful, you can then claim a refund, or a price reduction if you wish to keep the product."

    EE can't duck their responsibility just because they choose to send customers to get replacements from Apple. The legal responsibility always lies with the retailer.

    It would seem to me that the attempt at a replacement is unsuccessful. However if you're outside the warranty date then you may not be able to get anywhere.

    If you are still in contract then you could argue that the phone wasn't fit for purpose as it is reasonable to expect that a phone should be free from any manufacturing defects that would prevent it from working within the contract period. If you can get Apple to put in writing what the fault is and that it's the same problem, or find people with the same problem then it may help you. You could try saying you are cancelling and are refusing to pay any cancellation charges and will take them to the ombudsman. But that is pretty risky.

    You can try complaining to http://www.consumer-ombudsman.org/

    You don't say what the fault is, but googling for it and finding lots of other people with the same fault would be an indication that it was inherent.
    Last edited by phillw; 08-09-2017 at 7:27 PM.
    • gycraig
    • By gycraig 12th Sep 17, 11:43 AM
    • 404 Posts
    • 289 Thanks
    gycraig
    Bit of a hard one as you no longer own the phone that ee could possibly of had to replace.

    Problem is apple change on the day and a lot of customers would rather that than send it away for 2 weeks.

    Not sure a manufacturer changing the product themselves has been legislated for so rightly or wrongly these cases seem to slip through the gaps.
    Legislation quoted above is for if the retailer has exchanged or repaired the product.
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