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  • FIRST POST
    • A. deeley
    • By A. deeley 6th Sep 17, 11:50 AM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    A. deeley
    PCN by Premier Parking Logistics
    • #1
    • 6th Sep 17, 11:50 AM
    PCN by Premier Parking Logistics 6th Sep 17 at 11:50 AM
    Hi
    I was issued a PCN on 2 Sept by Premier Parking Logistics for failure to pay for a parking ticket in a Birmingham car park area ( essentially a ground floor of a knocked down and cleared building ). I have parked there before.

    Unfortunately I was not aware of these issues until I read MSE today so I am asking advice on how to proceed. The details of my case are below.

    Parked on 2 Sept 17. I used via my iPhone the telephone payment system to pay for 3 hours parking at a cost of £1.90. Unfortunately for some unknown reason the the payment did not go through and I was unaware of this. Upon return I found a PCN issued. The PCN charge is for £100.00 reduced to £60.00 if paid within 14 days.

    Due to naivety I emailed an appeal with my name and address on 2 September. I included a screen shot of my call history as proof that I made the call and text that the company texted me my car Registration number as Indetification.

    Also on 4 September I telephone the company to explain and I also company to offer £5.00 as payment without prejudice.

    Both my appeal to PPL and my offer have been rejected.

    My issue is that PPL does not offer a confirmation text for proof of payment. A friend who parked at the same time as me on 2 Sept used the telephone system and he did not hear anything about receiving a confirmation text either.

    So my appeal defence was that without an automatic confirmation text you don't know if you have paid or not. PPL insist that the confirmation text is an option given on the telephone payment method. On my previous visits I did NOT receive a confirmation text either.

    On 6 Sept I received a letter from PPL confirming my appeal was unsuccessful and offering me the optio of appealing to the IAS. This costs £15.00.

    My limited understanding is that that the company ( PPL) can only claim earnings lost through non payment. In my case £1.90.

    I have read through the various threads and standard guidance posts but nothing seems to be suitable if you HAVE already appealed and given PPL or other like companies your details.

    Advice on how to proceed would be most welcome.
    AD
    PS my naivety defence is based on th fact I recently had to sort out for my aging parents parking tickets issued by Birmingham CC and the PPL PCN looked exactly the same. 😇
Page 2
    • A.deeley
    • By A.deeley 7th Sep 17, 5:13 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    A.deeley
    Hi
    Whilst I agree with you about wasted money. Here's why I paid

    1. Technically I didn't pay for a ticket. So my bad for not paying attention better.
    2. Advice on here showed the argument for my defence of no payment was poor so little chance
    of winning in court.
    3. As the company can take up to 6 years to take to court. It means I have to keep all the
    paperwork for 6 years just in case they do a late claim. Not hard but a pain and that works
    out to 10.00 per year.

    Sometimes you have to choose the right battles to fight. For me at this moment this was not one of them.
    In the past I've fought when my argument / chance of winning was better and had refunds of £1000.00 + for a ruined holiday plus other stances too as I will fight for my rights.

    As before I thank everyone for the advice it was very helpful.
    A
    • A.deeley
    • By A.deeley 7th Sep 17, 10:13 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    A.deeley
    Uhhh. Where did all the advice replies go?

    To anyone who does a search on PCN's and this thread comes up please read the below.

    The advice given on the MSE HOME page is out of date 7 September 2017 inaccurate and misleading on the subject of challenging Parking Charge Notices (PNC). Check date main site advice updated before following the MAiN page advice.

    The FORUM advice IS correct and Up to date with the advice given very good and helpful. You should follow this advice.

    It's not completely clear when visiting but the MSE main home page and Forums are separate and are run by different people/ organisations.

    This is not to challenge any other info on the MSE main page but avoid confusion.

    Andrew
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 7th Sep 17, 10:32 AM
    • 7,291 Posts
    • 7,445 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Uhhh. Where did all the advice replies go?

    To anyone who does a search on PCN's and this thread comes up please read the below.

    The advice given on the MSE HOME page is out of date 7 September 2017 inaccurate and misleading on the subject of challenging Parking Charge Notices (PNC). Check date main site advice updated before following the MAiN page advice.

    The FORUM advice IS correct and Up to date with the advice given very good and helpful. You should follow this advice.

    It's not completely clear when visiting but the MSE main home page and Forums are separate and are run by different people/ organisations.

    This is not to challenge any other info on the MSE main page but avoid confusion.

    Andrew
    Originally posted by A.deeley
    selected reading and answering ?

    please answer the question

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=73088555&postcount=18
    • A.deeley
    • By A.deeley 7th Sep 17, 10:59 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    A.deeley
    Yes agree my mistake but the other posts were relevant. I've read worse threads that have not been edited.

    The most important information was that the MSE MAIN page info on PCNs is out of date.

    Why not just remove the whole post then?
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 7th Sep 17, 11:18 AM
    • 7,291 Posts
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    pappa golf
    Yes agree my mistake but the other posts were relevant. I've read worse threads that have not been edited.

    The most important information was that the MSE MAIN page info on PCNs is out of date.

    Why not just remove the whole post then?
    Originally posted by A.deeley
    where you ONLY offered an appeal @ £15 or NOT
    • A.deeley
    • By A.deeley 7th Sep 17, 11:44 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    A.deeley
    Hi
    Having returned to the IAS web site and re read their terms. They offer TWO appeals. The Standard one is free and the other the Non-Standard one costs £15.00.

    I could use the free appeal so I was offered a free appeal.

    This was a case of me mis reading as apposed to deliberate selective mis reading and quoting. As you can see by my original post I do try and be as accurate and clear as possible when giving information.

    As before I found the advice I was given here very helpful and thanked people for that.
    Andrew
    • A.deeley
    • By A.deeley 7th Sep 17, 11:50 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    A.deeley
    Maybe the slight dyslexia I have plays a part too as on the IAS web site the free and £15.00 box are next to each other.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 7th Sep 17, 11:56 AM
    • 7,291 Posts
    • 7,445 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Maybe the slight dyslexia I have plays a part too as on the IAS web site the free and £15.00 box are next to each other.
    Originally posted by A.deeley
    ahh , so false info in your origional post , however you made it sound like Me watkins was only offering a £15 appeal
    • A.deeley
    • By A.deeley 7th Sep 17, 12:36 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    A.deeley
    Hi
    At no time did I say PPL charged for an appeal. Here's my original paragraph

    "On 6 Sept I received a letter from PPL confirming my appeal was unsuccessful and offering me the optio of appealing to the IAS. This costs £15.00."

    The £15.00 refers to IAS and I have corrected the information in my reply above.

    Not sure where you going with the pickiness on a slight error that actually has no effect on my question. I've seen threads on here where it's taken a few days to get all the correct information from a poster and saw no such tardiness.

    As I stated. I read the MSE main page and Forum and the information gave conflicting advice. Therefore I posted my question. If the main page had been current and current I would not have posted.

    Maybe get MSE to update their information would be a better solution than nit picking me.

    That I chose to pay the PCN was based on my circumstances at this time not the right or wrong of the case. My defence on thecPCN was weak and not worth the hassle/risk of losing and paying a larger fine. Sometimes one has to take ownership of ones mistakes rather than blame others.

    I do have past experience of taking non payers of commercial invoices to court so have an idea how things can go. I've seen strong cases lose and weak cases win.

    Again I'll state. On the Forum I was given good, helpful advice and I'm grateful.

    Andrew
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 7th Sep 17, 12:54 PM
    • 7,291 Posts
    • 7,445 Thanks
    pappa golf
    My " pickiness " was in the fact that had your statement been true , as in the COMPANY only offering a £15 appeal , one twist of your pens pointed end could not only has stopped this "gentleman" dead in his tracks , it would have also lost him DVLA access
    • A.deeley
    • By A.deeley 7th Sep 17, 1:16 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    A.deeley
    Hi
    Yes, but I never said PPL charged me £15.00. So when being picky it pays to be correct.

    Maybe getting pickie with MSE on their main page advice would be better way to spend time.

    I'll state again thecPPL appeal was free.

    Andrew
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 7th Sep 17, 1:40 PM
    • 7,291 Posts
    • 7,445 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Hi
    Yes, but I never said PPL charged me £15.00. So when being picky it pays to be correct.

    Maybe getting pickie with MSE on their main page advice would be better way to spend time.

    I'll state again thecPPL appeal was free.

    Andrew
    Originally posted by A.deeley
    On 6 Sept I received a letter from PPL confirming my appeal was unsuccessful and offering me the option of appealing to the IAS. This costs £15.00.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 7th Sep 17, 1:48 PM
    • 2,018 Posts
    • 2,437 Thanks
    waamo
    An accurate clarification would have been really helpful. In saying that having paid it is now game over. Sadly you appear to have had a pretty strong case but you live and learn.
    This space for hire.
    • A.deeley
    • By A.deeley 7th Sep 17, 2:05 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    A.deeley
    Think you need to read the sentence in full and in context .Not just highlight a few words.

    In the sentence I state
    1 I had appealed to PPL and it was refused
    2. PPL offered me the option of appealing to IAS
    3. The £15.00 refers to IAS.

    Nowhere do I state PPL charged for an appeal.

    I'm going to leave it here. If your a moderator your doing a pretty poor job as your basically trolling by posting passive/ aggressive one line replies with a sarcastic style.

    I've stated I made a small error and have corrected it.

    So maybe go after the big fish and get MSE to update their info would be a better use of your time than getting all pickie over my small error and then trying to be smart with a sentence YOU have misread.

    Wish you a good day.
    A
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Sep 17, 2:12 PM
    • 50,082 Posts
    • 63,470 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hi
    Yes, but I never said PPL charged me £15.00. So when being picky it pays to be correct.

    Maybe getting pickie with MSE on their main page advice would be better way to spend time.
    Originally posted by A.deeley
    I have emailed and exchanged pm's several times with the forum team (lots of times!) and minor changes were made to the wording but it is still a bugbear of ours! You are right, the MSE 'official' advice just isn't correct.

    Even worse, Martin Lewis went on TV and advised people to 'pay then appeal' (which you can't do with most PPCs) and if you've paid, where's the incentive for them to properly consider an appeal?!

    Even when people get court claims we win 99% of the time - one lost in a year and no risk, no CCJ.

    So there was never a reason for Martin to tell people to pay. But he did. Grrrr...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • A.deeley
    • By A.deeley 7th Sep 17, 2:45 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    A.deeley
    Great excellent news. I'm glad 99% of cases are successful in their appeal against the bad PCNs and I applaud the help of this Forum.

    Maybe stating in the Newbies section ( for PCN ) on the Forum that the MSE page info is incorrect would help clarify things. Having the MS main page say one thing and the Forum guide another certainly confused me. Hence why I posted my question after researching for two days.

    It's also not really clear the the Forum and MSE web site are separate entities and just 'linked' together.

    The circumstances of my PCN were that my defence was not the strongest. As stated on here by a forum poster. A poor telephone system by PPL but also maybe a slight lack of attention on my part meant I failed to buy a parking ticket. As the law has now changed on what a 'fair' charge is. I took the view that I was not prepared to take a 1% risk for a £60.00 charge. Which could have gone on for a potential 6 years and may result in a higher cost if I lost.

    Should I have had a stronger case and fully believed I was in ' the right' then I would of fought this to the bitter end.

    Sometime we have to be honest with ourselves and ask' was this my fault or making? ' In this case I was 'possibly ' to blame therefore I have to accept the consequences of my actions. After working with the public for over over 35 years I've learnt they majority of people prefer to blame others first before they will accept they made a mistake.

    What I was disappointed in is that the informative answers to my original post were deleted. Anyone Googling and coming across my post will now be none the wiser.

    Again I applaud the help and advice given on the Forums here.

    Regards
    A
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 7th Sep 17, 3:59 PM
    • 32,807 Posts
    • 16,839 Thanks
    Quentin
    Yes. Your initial appeal defence stood no chance. Which you were told. As well as the fact that any appeal would be futile anyway

    But you were advised to read the newbies FAQ thread. That explains the stages these things go through.

    There you would have seen how to set about constructing a sound defence in the unlikely event that court action would be taken against you
    • A.deeley
    • By A.deeley 7th Sep 17, 4:26 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    A.deeley
    Hi
    Yes Quentin your help was excellent.

    As I said, I did read the FAQs etc. The fact was IF they had of taken me to court my defence which I was basing off the Main page was useless. I was not prepared to take the risk of being that 1% who lost when I was probably 50% to blame anyway. Hanging on to the paper work for 6 years with a poor defence made no sense.

    As I stated, one has to be honest and take responsibility for ones own actions. If I was at fault I had no grounds for a defence. My question was also on 'fair' charge but searching found 'fair' charge is open for interpretation by the courts.

    I once took a letting company that owed me money to court. It was 51/2 years after the event but within the 6 years allowed. I won by default because they couldn't find their original paperwork. I was not prepared to take this risk.

    I'll repeat what I've said before. I asked my question because the main page and the forum gave conflicting advice. I now know because I was informed in a reply that it's the Forum which gives the better advice.

    Again I thank you and others for the advice given
    A
    • A.deeley
    • By A.deeley 7th Sep 17, 4:37 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    A.deeley
    Hi waano

    Actually Quinton advised the opposite. He said my case was poor.

    I gave an accurate and clear account. The only minor inaccuracy was the £15.00 IAS charge which did not affect my case.

    The payment of the PCN was only made after reading the answers to my post. I've stated quite clearly why I paid the PCN.
    A
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 7th Sep 17, 4:38 PM
    • 7,291 Posts
    • 7,445 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Mr wilkins says "thank you very much" as well

    https://uk.linkedin.com/in/walton-wilkins-8a546857
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