Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • abby1234519
    • By abby1234519 6th Sep 17, 10:42 AM
    • 1,897Posts
    • 3,024Thanks
    abby1234519
    14 days
    • #1
    • 6th Sep 17, 10:42 AM
    14 days 6th Sep 17 at 10:42 AM
    If an "offence" (parking for 19 minutes without paying) happened on the 6th August, and the ANPR "invoice" from HighView wasn't posted until the 23rd, does this basically mean it's invalid?

    My understanding is that the below applies, my maths makes it 16/17 days from "offence" to posting the letter.

    "The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended."

    Asking for a friend who's got yet another parking ticket, this is the first time I think she can not pay one.

    Edit: Charge notice admits they don't know who the driver was so was going to defend on keeper liability and the fact that they have timed out on that
    Last edited by abby1234519; 06-09-2017 at 10:55 AM.
    Money money money.

    Debt
    Dec 2016: £25,158.71 £21,999.99

    #28 Pay off debt in 2017 £3803.55
Page 1
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 6th Sep 17, 10:58 AM
    • 3,161 Posts
    • 3,196 Thanks
    DoaM
    • #2
    • 6th Sep 17, 10:58 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Sep 17, 10:58 AM
    A notice to keeper needs to arrive within 15 calendar days of the date of "offence" for POFA 2012 to be relied upon to transfer liability from driver to keeper. (i.e. 14 calendar days after the offence, where day 1 is the day after the offence).

    This will only be one appeal point though ... it won't make the PPC simply go away. See the NEWBIES thread.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • abby1234519
    • By abby1234519 6th Sep 17, 11:22 AM
    • 1,897 Posts
    • 3,024 Thanks
    abby1234519
    • #3
    • 6th Sep 17, 11:22 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Sep 17, 11:22 AM
    Hi thank you for your response,

    I have read the newbies thread hence my question based on that thread.

    I am assuming the ticket is indicating keeper liability because they state "you were the registered keeper at the time of parking" and on the back state that they have "reasonable cause to apply to the DVLA for details of the registered keeper".

    The NTK arrived late whether it's 14 working days or 15 calendar days, I know it doesn't make it void but that means there is no keeper liability?

    The newbie thread says "the a postal PCN has to arrive by day 14 if there was no windscreen ticket"

    I don't quite understand:

    "Some firms (e.g. Civil Enforcement, Highview, CP Plus, Smart Parking and some small PPCs) don't even bother with POFA 2012 wording so the keeper is not liable if you point that out to POPLA. So you can see why the keeper is the person identified in your appeal."

    What does this mean? Does it mean because they don't use that wording, the keeper just isn't liable?


    Thanks
    Money money money.

    Debt
    Dec 2016: £25,158.71 £21,999.99

    #28 Pay off debt in 2017 £3803.55
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 6th Sep 17, 11:42 AM
    • 10,176 Posts
    • 9,302 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #4
    • 6th Sep 17, 11:42 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Sep 17, 11:42 AM
    It means that they can't transfer liability to the keeper.

    My appeal would simply say -
    1. I am the keeper, not the driver at the time and I reserve my right not to name the driver.

    2. You have failed to follow the strict timescale laid down in POFA 2012 and taken longer than the 15 days to get the NtK to me. You have, therefore, lost the right to pass liability on to me as registered keeper.

    3. I invite you to cancel the charge or send me a POPLA code where I will take delight in costing you £27 using this and other appeal points with my appeal to POPLA.

    The above applies to PPCs who are NOT in the IPC. The IAS tend to play fast and loose and make the altogether biased view that if it's your car and you don't name the driver it's because you were driving.
    • abby1234519
    • By abby1234519 6th Sep 17, 2:28 PM
    • 1,897 Posts
    • 3,024 Thanks
    abby1234519
    • #5
    • 6th Sep 17, 2:28 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Sep 17, 2:28 PM
    It means that they can't transfer liability to the keeper.

    My appeal would simply say -
    1. I am the keeper, not the driver at the time and I reserve my right not to name the driver.

    2. You have failed to follow the strict timescale laid down in POFA 2012 and taken longer than the 15 days to get the NtK to me. You have, therefore, lost the right to pass liability on to me as registered keeper.

    3. I invite you to cancel the charge or send me a POPLA code where I will take delight in costing you £27 using this and other appeal points with my appeal to POPLA.

    The above applies to PPCs who are NOT in the IPC. The IAS tend to play fast and loose and make the altogether biased view that if it's your car and you don't name the driver it's because you were driving.
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    They are park of the BPA but I guess thats neither here nor there!

    My letter does cover your points, thanks for confirming. I say my letter, I've written it for my friend and we've submitted it online. Now just got to wait, I fully expect to escalate it to POPLA
    Money money money.

    Debt
    Dec 2016: £25,158.71 £21,999.99

    #28 Pay off debt in 2017 £3803.55
    • Redx
    • By Redx 6th Sep 17, 3:24 PM
    • 15,486 Posts
    • 19,571 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 6th Sep 17, 3:24 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Sep 17, 3:24 PM
    it isnt a case of being "invalid"

    its a valid ticket to a driver, but issued to a keeper despite failing POFA2012

    so as they failed POFA2012 , the keeper can and does say FRO and contact the driver (who shall not be named) - catch 22 , they dont know who was driving and nobody will tell them

    so its the failure to comply with POFA2012 that makes it irrelevant to holding a keeper liable for a drivers actions

    once the game is up they usually cancel, OR you use legal arguments at popla , such as failing the POFA test , to get popla to cancel it

    at the moment , its see who blinks first, but they are hoping the keeper will fall for their tricks and wont know their rights

    as the keeper has appealed and shown up their failings , they are likely to cancel it as a non-starter

    you are not looking for it being "invalid" , you are looking for , and found , a technicality to get it cancelled , hence the appeal that was eventually made
    Last edited by Redx; 06-09-2017 at 3:26 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 6th Sep 17, 4:44 PM
    • 2,407 Posts
    • 3,621 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #7
    • 6th Sep 17, 4:44 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Sep 17, 4:44 PM
    Highview usually give up at the first hurdle!
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Sep 17, 1:03 AM
    • 49,919 Posts
    • 63,336 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 7th Sep 17, 1:03 AM
    • #8
    • 7th Sep 17, 1:03 AM
    Just search the forum for Highview...

    ...beat the 2 hour challenge tomorrow!

    Surely you read other Highview threads as a first step - this is one of the easiest ones.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • abby1234519
    • By abby1234519 7th Sep 17, 9:16 AM
    • 1,897 Posts
    • 3,024 Thanks
    abby1234519
    • #9
    • 7th Sep 17, 9:16 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Sep 17, 9:16 AM
    Just search the forum for Highview...

    ...beat the 2 hour challenge tomorrow!

    Surely you read other Highview threads as a first step - this is one of the easiest ones.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Yes of course I have read the forum, nothing wrong with asking for clarification! Wouldn't want to submit something wrong and shoot myself in the foot. Which is something I do frequently

    The irony is, I can't check with my friend to see if she's had a response from Highview as she's currently on a speed awareness course......
    Money money money.

    Debt
    Dec 2016: £25,158.71 £21,999.99

    #28 Pay off debt in 2017 £3803.55
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Sep 17, 2:50 PM
    • 49,919 Posts
    • 63,336 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ooh the irony!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,932Posts Today

8,580Users online

Martin's Twitter