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  • FIRST POST
    • Rachel71
    • By Rachel71 5th Sep 17, 8:14 PM
    • 31Posts
    • 22Thanks
    Rachel71
    Sash windows
    • #1
    • 5th Sep 17, 8:14 PM
    Sash windows 5th Sep 17 at 8:14 PM
    Hello I'd appreciate some advice with sash windows please. We have recently moved into a Victorian house with sash windows (not listed, not conservation area). Most sashes are painted shut and are cold. Have got some quotes: £4k to refurbish and draft proof; £9k to refurbish and replace sashes with new wooden sashes with dg (but keep box frames); £14k to replace with v good quality upvc. Not sure what to do, has anyone had the same issue - and any experiences of doing any of these?
    Thanks v much.
    Rachel71
Page 1
    • Apodemus
    • By Apodemus 5th Sep 17, 9:25 PM
    • 831 Posts
    • 619 Thanks
    Apodemus
    • #2
    • 5th Sep 17, 9:25 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Sep 17, 9:25 PM
    I'd go with the £4K option, then DIY some acrylic sheet secondary glazing.
    • phil24_7
    • By phil24_7 5th Sep 17, 10:06 PM
    • 1,520 Posts
    • 661 Thanks
    phil24_7
    • #3
    • 5th Sep 17, 10:06 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Sep 17, 10:06 PM
    I'd be going the 9K (get other quotes though from reputable local companies) option using good quality materials to get the u value down as low as possible.
    • gmgmgm
    • By gmgmgm 6th Sep 17, 6:27 AM
    • 506 Posts
    • 213 Thanks
    gmgmgm
    • #4
    • 6th Sep 17, 6:27 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Sep 17, 6:27 AM
    How about re-paint the sashes so they work properly (not painted shut!), add some draught-proofing (easy) and then turn the heating up a little? Much less than £4k.
    • DaftyDuck
    • By DaftyDuck 6th Sep 17, 7:00 AM
    • 3,708 Posts
    • 7,467 Thanks
    DaftyDuck
    • #5
    • 6th Sep 17, 7:00 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Sep 17, 7:00 AM
    I'm refurbishing my own sash windows at the moment. Some are fine, others rotted at the base, broken panes and little putty. uPVC replacement is not worth it in almost all cases. They are not maintenance free at all - they may fail after only ten or so years. Some of my Windows are well over 200 years old.

    The "savings" in heat loss for installing double glazing are vastly exaggerated. To make it cost effective they would need to last hundreds of years, and they won't. Some have reasonable profiles, but they are pricey. Most have thick glazing bars and look hideous.

    Well repaired sash windows will last a lifetime, look lovely, and suit the house. First or second option only.... But savings from second option would be minimal.

    For me, first option.
    • Apodemus
    • By Apodemus 6th Sep 17, 7:40 AM
    • 831 Posts
    • 619 Thanks
    Apodemus
    • #6
    • 6th Sep 17, 7:40 AM
    • #6
    • 6th Sep 17, 7:40 AM
    Well repaired sash windows will last a lifetime, look lovely, and suit the house. First or second option only.... But savings from second option would be minimal.

    For me, first option.
    Originally posted by DaftyDuck
    I agree with all you say, but second option also puts the OP onto the short life-cycle treadmill. The dg units will have a finite life - probably ten to fifteen years depending on size and quality. The wood will almost certainly be poorer quality than the originals and there is virtually no way to ensure that condensation doesn't form along the bottom edge of the dg unit where it sits on the wood, so it will start to rot.

    Stopping draughts is the key, you will never repay installation costs for dg through reduced heating bills.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 6th Sep 17, 8:55 AM
    • 113 Posts
    • 41 Thanks
    Tom99
    • #7
    • 6th Sep 17, 8:55 AM
    • #7
    • 6th Sep 17, 8:55 AM
    I had a new box sash made to my specification by a local carpenter, then had the frames double glazed and installed it myself with lead weights and chains rather than rope.
    • Rachel71
    • By Rachel71 6th Sep 17, 1:36 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Rachel71
    • #8
    • 6th Sep 17, 1:36 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Sep 17, 1:36 PM
    Thanks very much everyone. I'm really undecided! Option 1 probably looks the best then. I don't want to replace and then find in 10-15 years that we have to replace again (the original windows have been there for more than 130 years and apparently are still in decent nick, just not very warm). Thanks.
    • rach_k
    • By rach_k 6th Sep 17, 1:52 PM
    • 1,005 Posts
    • 1,705 Thanks
    rach_k
    • #9
    • 6th Sep 17, 1:52 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Sep 17, 1:52 PM
    I would go with the first option too. Our Victorian house has had the sash windows replaced with plastic. Although I think the style is nice enough and doesn't look too 'wrong', I'd love to rip them out and get original-style wooden ones put back. I don't think the OH will go for it though, not after I made him do that with the front door and he nearly had to sell a kidney!!!
    • Icecannon
    • By Icecannon 6th Sep 17, 1:53 PM
    • 57 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Icecannon
    Option 1.

    Looks better and will also must likely keep out more noise than upvc, the daft exclusion should be enough, but if it's not the £5k saving will buy you some very nice heavy curtains.
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 6th Sep 17, 3:12 PM
    • 3,207 Posts
    • 1,694 Thanks
    lstar337
    Option 1 with secondary glazing inside.
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 6th Sep 17, 4:03 PM
    • 3,056 Posts
    • 3,739 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    The "savings" in heat loss for installing double glazing are vastly exaggerated. To make it cost effective they would need to last hundreds of years, and they won't. Some have reasonable profiles, but they are pricey. Most have thick glazing bars and look hideous.
    Originally posted by DaftyDuck
    Standard single pane glass is 4.8W/(m^2)K
    Standard double glazing (20mm argon) is 1.1W/(m^2)k

    a winter living room at 18 degrees against an outside temp of freezing is an 18K difference.

    A Victorian bay window may have 4m2 of glazing

    Difference in heat loss is (4.8-1.1)*18*4 = 266w = 917BTU

    so the difference is having this radiator running all the time (to keep the same temp difference)

    extra rad needed
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 13th Sep 17, 3:45 PM
    • 3,207 Posts
    • 1,694 Thanks
    lstar337
    A good idea would be a bay window radiator.
    This is still the most cost effective way of heating a house.
    We can supply and form and shape radiator for bay windows

    Google <snip> - they are based in London but supply radiators for this.

    Hope that helps,
    Elliot
    Originally posted by Angellwelding&fabrication
    You are not allowed to tout for business on this forum.
    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 13th Sep 17, 5:10 PM
    • 243 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    zoothornrollo
    OP doesn't say anywhere how many windows that quote is for - I'd say it depends to a large degree on that. i.e., how good value the quote is.

    Also, option 1 sounds expensive compared to 2. - ie., I would have thought new wood replacements would be much more than twice as much as refurb + soundproofing...?

    We got double-glazed wood replacement sashes and it was some of the best money we spent - largely because of the amount of noise it cut out rather than heat (got acoustic laminate on outer pane, though hard to tell specific impact of that).

    Just don't EVER go UPVC....
    • Private Church
    • By Private Church 14th Sep 17, 5:42 PM
    • 308 Posts
    • 765 Thanks
    Private Church
    I agree with Zoothornrollo. Unless we know how many windows are to be replaced how can we give an accurate opinion.

    As an example if you were replacing one boxframe sash window ( 6 pane sash above a 6 pane sash) constructed from Sapele hardwood,Primed,double glazed,weather/draught stripped ,brass ironmongery ,fitted you should expect to pay around £1800+vat .

    For £14k (equal to"good quality Upvc") I would expect to replace around 7 double glazed windows............. Finishing the decorating would an be extra..

    My advice would be overhaul if you plan to stay 3-5yrs but if you plan to stay there for 10yrs or more then replace the entire sash windows. They will add value to the property .
    Last edited by Private Church; 14-09-2017 at 5:55 PM.
    "If we in Parliament cannot gain personally then there is very little point in us being here"

    : Lord Manchester addressing Parliament around 1649.......
    ......
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