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    • TwoPence
    • By TwoPence 5th Sep 17, 11:01 AM
    • 6Posts
    • 3Thanks
    TwoPence
    IPC Appeal Dilemma
    • #1
    • 5th Sep 17, 11:01 AM
    IPC Appeal Dilemma 5th Sep 17 at 11:01 AM
    Hi,

    I received a PCN from a private parking company (IPC member) a number of months ago. At present, I believe there are two potential reasons for appeal available, hence I decided to create this thread in the hope to gain some advice as to which option provides the strongest appeal, if any at all.

    Unfortunatly, as suggested by the ‘Newbies! Need help with a private parking ticket? Read this before posting!!’ thread, I have already eliminated the option to appeal as the ‘Registered Keeper’ as my wording in the initial appeal suggests I am in fact the driver. Regrettably, I had not discovered the thread at the time of my initial appeal.

    PCN Details
    The reason that the PPC issued the PCN is the following:
    ‘Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space’
    In an attempt to keep this thread relatively short, the circumstances of my case are virtually identical to the following case:
    ht tp://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5629259

    It is worth mentioning that I submitted my appeal within 21 days following the PCN as requested (via Royal Mail Signed For), although the PCN rejected my appeal 148 days later. This is significant as the IPC Code of Practice Section 6.1 (d) states that the PPC must:
    Consider such representations and should respond appropriately within 28 days.
    Proposed Action
    1. Continue to uphold my initial argument regarding ambiguous signage and inconsistent ‘no parking zone’ markings.
    2. Argue that the PPC did not comply with the KADOE contract as it did not seek recovery in accordance with the ATA’s Code of Practice (to reply within 28 days).

    Information regarding the KADOE was extracted from:
    ht tp://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5585388

    If there is any important information in relation to the case not included in this post, please don’t hesitate to request further information.

    I would be grateful of any advice.

    Thanks in advance!
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Sep 17, 11:25 AM
    • 14,528 Posts
    • 22,857 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 5th Sep 17, 11:25 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Sep 17, 11:25 AM
    Fewer than 20% of appeals are upheld by the IAS. It is reported that they promised their membership that they would reject at least 80% of all appeals. That's a fair testimony as to a) their independence, and b) your prospects of success.

    We've only seen appeals won where there is absolute and irrefutable evidence like they saying you were in car park X when you have flight tickets showing you were mid-Atlantic on your way to Florida.

    Turning to your case, if you can irrefutably prove the PPC to be wrong, then you might have half a chance with an appeal, but you will need physical evidence to (more than) prove your case.

    In relation to the delay in responding to your appeal, I rather suspect (but can't guarantee) that the IAS drone will regard it as trivial.

    But David Dunford of the DVLA (who are the guardians of the KADOE contract) should be interested and shouldn't regard it as trivial, so, whatever you do in regard to appealing to the IAS, you should definitely complain to him that no one should be kept waiting almost 5 months for the outcome of an appeal, especially when they (the PPC) have signed a legally binding contract with him (DVLA) to abide fully by the IPC's Code of Practice. Personally, I think this may give you a better chance of having the charge kicked into the long grass than any IAS appeal.

    Which PPC are you dealing with here?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • TwoPence
    • By TwoPence 5th Sep 17, 12:46 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    TwoPence
    • #3
    • 5th Sep 17, 12:46 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Sep 17, 12:46 PM
    Thanks greatly for your response Umkomaas.

    It is disappointing to hear so few appeals are upheld by the IAS, although I can't say I am shocked having read extensively about the IAS.

    The PPC is Euro Parking Services Ltd, not to be confused with Euro Car Parks Ltd or similar.

    I have obtained photographic evidence of the site at the location where my PCN was issued. I could provide this here for review so long as it does not prove detrimental to my case or contravene forum rules?

    It appears that in the case of the thread listed in my first post, an appeal to the IAS was rejected (no surprise there).

    There are possible complications in regards to the delayed response to my appeal. My most recent correspondence brings attention to my initial appeal, but does not contain the specifics of my appeal. They seem to have taken the most recent correspondence as my initial appeal and responded accordingly.

    The appeals process itself has been handled extremely poorly. The PPC has sent a 'Notice to keeper' and LBCCC with no acknowledgement of my initial appeal, yet their most recent correspondence is a rejection of my appeal.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 5th Sep 17, 1:08 PM
    • 497 Posts
    • 590 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #4
    • 5th Sep 17, 1:08 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Sep 17, 1:08 PM
    We are totally shocked that this scum bag company of parasites hasn't managed a proper appeals process. Completely baffled.

    If you're at lbc stage, just respond to that, showing us your draft.
    • TwoPence
    • By TwoPence 5th Sep 17, 4:13 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    TwoPence
    • #5
    • 5th Sep 17, 4:13 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Sep 17, 4:13 PM
    Indeed nosferatu1001, it is simply unacceptable.

    Unfortunately, I am unsure as to which stage of the appeal I am currently at. Having received a LBC letter, one would assume that the PPC is seeking to commence legal proceedings. However, their most recent correspondence is in relation to my initial appeal.

    Is this the first case ever to receive a LBCCC before a decision on the initial appeal I wonder?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Sep 17, 4:30 PM
    • 14,528 Posts
    • 22,857 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 5th Sep 17, 4:30 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Sep 17, 4:30 PM
    Respond robustly to the LBCCC and copy everything to David Dunford and ask that he investigate urgently as this now looks to you that a court case could be imminent, even though the PPC has not followed due process with the appeals procedure.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 5th Sep 17, 5:47 PM
    • 497 Posts
    • 590 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #7
    • 5th Sep 17, 5:47 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Sep 17, 5:47 PM
    You of course respond to the lbc. As that's the last stage before court action. You of course highlight the confusion, as at worst case they're behaving unreasonably

    You missed my sarcasm as well. No one is shocked.
    • TwoPence
    • By TwoPence 5th Sep 17, 6:18 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    TwoPence
    • #8
    • 5th Sep 17, 6:18 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Sep 17, 6:18 PM
    Thanks both for your advice, I will draft a response to the LBCCC with the aid of the FAQ thread and post it here.

    It does indeed seem I missed your sarcasm nosferatu1001, my apologies .
    • TwoPence
    • By TwoPence 6th Sep 17, 3:11 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    TwoPence
    • #9
    • 6th Sep 17, 3:11 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Sep 17, 3:11 PM
    Here is the draft response to the LBCCC:

    ===========================================
    Draft letter temporarily withdrawn
    ===========================================
    Any feedback welcome. Also, if you can suggest any further points in law (e.g. CPR Part 3.4) to include on the response, I would be grateful of your advice.

    Thanks to:
    Timothea
    ht tp://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5585388
    and
    Coupon-mad
    ht tp://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5673397#post72786361
    Last edited by TwoPence; 12-09-2017 at 3:10 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Sep 17, 12:57 AM
    • 49,992 Posts
    • 63,391 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Any feedback welcome. Also, if you can suggest any further points in law (e.g. CPR Part 3.4) to include on the response, I would be grateful of your advice.
    I'd say the end needs to be clearer about what you mean by 'overturn this matter'? Say exactly what you want them to do, and when you expect them to respond by (e.g. you could say: 'within 14 days of the date of this letter').
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • TwoPence
    • By TwoPence 7th Sep 17, 5:09 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    TwoPence
    Thanks Coupon-mad,

    I have amended this by requesting them to cease and desist from processing my personal data and when to respond by.

    I'll keep the thread updated. I'm likely to temporarily remove my LBCCC response until the PPC has provided a response, if they do at all respond, so to avoid the possibility of any further complications.
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