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  • FIRST POST
    • iNeedHoney
    • By iNeedHoney 4th Sep 17, 11:29 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 0Thanks
    iNeedHoney
    Can I Get My Money?
    • #1
    • 4th Sep 17, 11:29 PM
    Can I Get My Money? 4th Sep 17 at 11:29 PM
    Hey there guys new here, basically I started doing door supervisor work for an agency long story short the agency was very unprofessional things such as being called last minute and expected to travel across London and not being compensated, having to chase up with the owner for my pay every time etc

    I am new to door work so this guy obviously took the biscuit a bit and I knew of this but being new I thought let me rack up some experience, but few weeks ago I spoke with more door men and they directed me to better places the problem however is I'm owed £198, the owner is not picking up his phone or answering any of my texts, it's been 2 weeks since I was meant to be paid but since I told him I'm not working anymore he has lost contact with me...we didn't really finish on bad terms I didn't explain anything to him as I'm self employed and he never gave me a fixed rota so the time I left it wasn't as if I cancelled so many shifts and left him in a pickle

    so the main problem is I didn't sign any contract, it was pretty much all word of mouth, the only "proof" I have is text messages and also the sheets we sign in a beginning of a shift which I believe are for the council however I don't have access to that it's something he controls usually, so is there anything I can do to get my money?

    Thank you!
Page 2
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 6th Sep 17, 12:48 PM
    • 15,143 Posts
    • 14,757 Thanks
    Guest101
    I see, how soon after will I have to go to court lets say if he doesn't respond to the email? Also I technically do have proof but it's on his end (the sign in sheets we use before work and I guess also with the owners of the sites they can check that I was there)

    I should know where the sheets are for two of the places as they are kept in the places of work
    Originally posted by iNeedHoney
    Unfortunately those will likely be missing, or simply not provided.


    As soon as the deadline is passed you can make a claim online, court would be 6 weeks or more afterwards
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 6th Sep 17, 1:12 PM
    • 1,688 Posts
    • 1,617 Thanks
    steampowered
    I would get on with issuing a 'letter before action' ASAP and then 14 days later a claim on 'moneyclaimonline'. The longer you leave it the lower your chances of success will be.

    Your claim does not need to be any more complicated than stating you are owed £xxx for xxxx hours worked at the agreed rate of £xxx per hour between date xx.xx.2017 and xx.xx.2017.

    You don't need to provide any supporting documents. The court does not care about NI numbers or UTR numbers or cash in hand, or any of that stuff.

    After proceedings have been issued, an order for disclosure will be made requiring each party to disclose documents to each other for example 14 days before the hearing. At that stage you would ask him for a copy of the time sheets. If he fails to provide them you would invite the judge to draw his own conclusions.
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 7th Sep 17, 12:12 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    Yes, but it's not 100%.


    A judge could believe you if you come across eloquently and confidently.


    If you lose, the costs are typically limited to the £35 fee and approx. £100 in costs to the other side (for a simple hearing)
    Originally posted by Guest101
    I think the OP is being given false hope here.

    He (assuming he) has worked cash in hand as not given employer any NI or Tax details..has no proof of working hours and is owed roughly £200.

    If he loses then he is out of pocket by £135 ish...still owes tax man and owes for his National insurance contributions.

    Up to the OP but seems an awful gamble for £200.


    OP the chap/company you was working for..was he employed directly for the Club/Premises you was working at or was he a subby.

    What company was you working for.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 7th Sep 17, 1:35 PM
    • 1,688 Posts
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    steampowered
    If Op issues a claim, there are three possibilities:

    1) The employer does not file a defence. The Op wins by default.

    2) The employer admits that the Op worked those hours. The Op wins.

    3) The employer denies that the Op worked those hours. The judge will then look at the available evidence. This would include looking at the text messages Op has, looking at the timesheets (if provided by the employer) and hearing from the Op and the Defendant. The judge would then reach a decision.

    It certainly sounds worth going ahead to me.

    Of course the Op could be liable to HMRC for any tax he owes. But that is not something the court would consider. HMRC would not be a party to the proceedings.
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 7th Sep 17, 1:43 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    If Op issues a claim, there are three possibilities:

    1) The employer does not file a defence. The Op wins by default.

    2) The employer admits that the Op worked those hours. The Op wins.

    3) The employer denies that the Op worked those hours. The judge will then look at the available evidence. This would include looking at the text messages Op has, looking at the timesheets (if provided by the employer) and hearing from the Op and the Defendant. The judge would then reach a decision.

    It certainly sounds worth going ahead to me.

    Of course the Op could be liable to HMRC for any tax he owes. But that is not something the court would consider. HMRC would not be a party to the proceedings.
    Originally posted by steampowered
    If it was for a larger amount id agree..however risking £135 plus to get £200 which should be declared...seems a risk.

    Lets not forget were assuming he was working for an employer,if he was subbing of a sub then what chance has he really got.

    Lots of door work gets subbed...cash in hand or fake self employed.

    Id say turn up on a door your employer works on or visit his office and ask for money face to face.
    • iNeedHoney
    • By iNeedHoney 15th Sep 17, 12:38 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    iNeedHoney
    Thank you for so many replies, I still haven't sent the letter as I'm very hesitant and confused as to what my chances are but some of the replies on this 2nd page have made it clear a bit more!

    @Guest101 the documents such as time sheets are usually kept at the place of work i.e the club and he told me it is actually for the council not something he printed up so he can't exactly get rid of them I assume?

    @steampowered & @Samsung_Note2 Thank you both so much for the replies! from what steampowered said it sounds promising but on the other hand Samsung_Note2 I can see your point, but how would I be losing £135 by the end of it?

    also the Samsung the guy I was working for is an agency who supplies door supervisors to different site the company name was AK Security based in north west London...Also Samsung lets say this goes to court what exactly would make the judge turn the decision in his favor? I know it's meant to be declared but can't I still declare it?

    For example my sister sells items online on ebay at a large scale and she declares her taxes once every year, so wouldn't that be the same case for me?

    Thank you!
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 15th Sep 17, 10:02 AM
    • 15,143 Posts
    • 14,757 Thanks
    Guest101
    Thank you for so many replies, I still haven't sent the letter as I'm very hesitant and confused as to what my chances are but some of the replies on this 2nd page have made it clear a bit more! - Your chances are the best towards the start. IE a letter which scares them into paying a smaller amount than they would if it went to court.

    @Guest101 the documents such as time sheets are usually kept at the place of work i.e the club and he told me it is actually for the council not something he printed up so he can't exactly get rid of them I assume? - If something is lost, it's lost, doesn't matter if the queen signed it. Mistakes happen.

    @steampowered & @Samsung_Note2 Thank you both so much for the replies! from what steampowered said it sounds promising but on the other hand Samsung_Note2 I can see your point, but how would I be losing £135 by the end of it?

    also the Samsung the guy I was working for is an agency who supplies door supervisors to different site the company name was AK Security based in north west London...Also Samsung lets say this goes to court what exactly would make the judge turn the decision in his favor? - Lack of proof. IE I already paid him your honour. the longer you wait the worse it looks. I know it's meant to be declared but can't I still declare it? - declaring tax is not the issue in this case, it's not s0omething a judge would consider.

    For example my sister sells items online on ebay at a large scale and she declares her taxes once every year, so wouldn't that be the same case for me? - Possibly, but that is true self employed. Whereas the issue here is that you may be, and I would suggest were, employed.

    Thank you!
    Originally posted by iNeedHoney
    A letter wont cost you anything beyond ink and a stamp.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 15th Sep 17, 11:23 AM
    • 1,688 Posts
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    steampowered
    @steampowered & @Samsung_Note2 Thank you both so much for the replies! from what steampowered said it sounds promising but on the other hand Samsung_Note2 I can see your point, but how would I be losing £135 by the end of it?
    Originally posted by iNeedHoney
    For a £200 claim, the fee payable when issuing the claim is £25. If the case is defended and proceeds to a hearing the hearing fee is £25. The fees are set out here: https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/ex50-eng.pdf. I'm not sure where this £135 comes from.

    The fees can be recovered from the Defendant if you are successful.

    In reality, many Defendants pay up when a formal letter before action is received. The majority pay up when a claim has been issued.

    lets say this goes to court what exactly would make the judge turn the decision in his favor? I know it's meant to be declared but can't I still declare it?
    It sounds like a very simple case to me. You said you did work and haven't been paid. That is what you would need to tell the judge.
    Last edited by steampowered; 15-09-2017 at 11:25 AM.
    • iNeedHoney
    • By iNeedHoney 15th Sep 17, 2:16 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    iNeedHoney
    Thank you both for the replies once again, this has cleared up a lot more...!

    Is sending this letter by email a viable option or does it need to be a paper ?
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 15th Sep 17, 2:51 PM
    • 15,143 Posts
    • 14,757 Thanks
    Guest101
    Thank you both for the replies once again, this has cleared up a lot more...!

    Is sending this letter by email a viable option or does it need to be a paper ?
    Originally posted by iNeedHoney


    Letter, first class ( NOT sitgned for) get proof of posting.
    • iNeedHoney
    • By iNeedHoney 15th Sep 17, 4:35 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    iNeedHoney
    Thank you again, any reason why it shouldn't be signed for? Can you get proof of postage without it being signed for?
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 15th Sep 17, 4:39 PM
    • 15,143 Posts
    • 14,757 Thanks
    Guest101
    Thank you again, any reason why it shouldn't be signed for? Can you get proof of postage without it being signed for?
    Originally posted by iNeedHoney


    Because he can refuse to sign?
    And yes, just ask for it over the counter at the post office
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 15th Sep 17, 5:04 PM
    • 1,688 Posts
    • 1,617 Thanks
    steampowered
    An email is adequate for a 'letter before action' provided that you are sure he'll get it (try to get a read receipt) and keep it very formal.

    I do think a letter has more impact though.
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 15th Sep 17, 5:04 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    For a £200 claim, the fee payable when issuing the claim is £25. If the case is defended and proceeds to a hearing the hearing fee is £25. The fees are set out here: https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/ex50-eng.pdf. I'm not sure where this £135 comes from.

    The fees can be recovered from the Defendant if you are successful.

    In reality, many Defendants pay up when a formal letter before action is received. The majority pay up when a claim has been issued.


    It sounds like a very simple case to me. You said you did work and haven't been paid. That is what you would need to tell the judge.
    Originally posted by steampowered
    The £135 is post 19.

    Judge would need proof...i could say ive worked for you,you have no proof i haven't...neither does he for his boss.
    iNeedmoney...go with the LBA its not difficult and you have nothing to loose.

    For those who suggest he was employed..id look at how the security industry works,esp doors and festivals...lots of it is subby work or cash in hand as people refuse to declare it.

    Sounds to me he was employed loosely on a Assumed self employed basis...ie Cash.
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