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    • UKSBD
    • By UKSBD 4th Sep 17, 7:23 PM
    • 447Posts
    • 140Thanks
    UKSBD
    Care, savings, homeowners, couple
    • #1
    • 4th Sep 17, 7:23 PM
    Care, savings, homeowners, couple 4th Sep 17 at 7:23 PM
    My father, who has mild Alzheimer's, has recently had a stroke and has been in a rehab hospital for 4 weeks.


    He, and my mother, live in their own home and have approx. £30,000 in savings.


    He is going to need care when he comes out which he will have to pay for.


    As they are a couple is all the savings counted or just half of it.


    As the property is mortgage free, will they have to sell it to pay for care.


    What happens if he is bad enough he has to go in to residential care, if they have to sell the house to pay for this where does my mother live.


    As you can tell by the questions I have no idea how these things work, could someone point me to the best place to research.
Page 1
    • HB58
    • By HB58 4th Sep 17, 7:28 PM
    • 1,750 Posts
    • 1,622 Thanks
    HB58
    • #2
    • 4th Sep 17, 7:28 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Sep 17, 7:28 PM
    The house that your parents live in will be disregarded (because your mother is living there) and, unless they can show otherwise, money in joint accounts will be counted as belonging 50:50 between your parents.

    If there are less than £23,000 savings, the Local Authority will pay, at least in part, for any residential care (and, I believe, for any home care).

    The Alzheimer's Society website has lots of useful info about this, and about other subjects relating to dementia/people with dementia.

    Sorry - I have assumed that your parents are both pensioners! If not, the house might not be disregarded . . .
    Last edited by HB58; 04-09-2017 at 7:32 PM.
    • Torry Quine
    • By Torry Quine 4th Sep 17, 7:28 PM
    • 16,943 Posts
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    Torry Quine
    • #3
    • 4th Sep 17, 7:28 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Sep 17, 7:28 PM
    All savings in his name and half of any in joint names will be taken into account.

    If he goes into care the house would not be sold and if she is a pensioner would be disregarded.
    Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance you must keep moving . Albert Einstein.

    I can bear pain myself, he said softly, but I couldna bear yours. That would take more strength than I have -
    Diana Gabaldon, Outlander
    • UKSBD
    • By UKSBD 4th Sep 17, 7:35 PM
    • 447 Posts
    • 140 Thanks
    UKSBD
    • #4
    • 4th Sep 17, 7:35 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Sep 17, 7:35 PM
    Thanks both


    They are both old fashioned and although it would probably be classed as joint money for most people, I suspect (don't know for sure) that the account would just be in my fathers name.


    Would they see it as all being his even though it obviously isn't?
    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 4th Sep 17, 7:54 PM
    • 1,297 Posts
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    Cheeky_Monkey
    • #5
    • 4th Sep 17, 7:54 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Sep 17, 7:54 PM
    Thanks both


    They are both old fashioned and although it would probably be classed as joint money for most people, I suspect (don't know for sure) that the account would just be in my fathers name.


    Would they see it as all being his even though it obviously isn't?
    Originally posted by UKSBD
    If it is indeed in his sole name then yes, I would say so
    • Torry Quine
    • By Torry Quine 4th Sep 17, 7:57 PM
    • 16,943 Posts
    • 25,836 Thanks
    Torry Quine
    • #6
    • 4th Sep 17, 7:57 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Sep 17, 7:57 PM
    Thanks both


    They are both old fashioned and although it would probably be classed as joint money for most people, I suspect (don't know for sure) that the account would just be in my fathers name.


    Would they see it as all being his even though it obviously isn't?
    Originally posted by UKSBD
    Sadly yes it would be seen as his.

    If he did go into care she would be able to get help in her own right
    Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance you must keep moving . Albert Einstein.

    I can bear pain myself, he said softly, but I couldna bear yours. That would take more strength than I have -
    Diana Gabaldon, Outlander
    • SandraScarlett
    • By SandraScarlett 4th Sep 17, 8:12 PM
    • 3,893 Posts
    • 28,650 Thanks
    SandraScarlett
    • #7
    • 4th Sep 17, 8:12 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Sep 17, 8:12 PM
    My father, who has mild Alzheimer's, has recently had a stroke and has been in a rehab hospital for 4 weeks.


    He, and my mother, live in their own home and have approx. £30,000 in savings.


    He is going to need care when he comes out which he will have to pay for.


    As they are a couple is all the savings counted or just half of it.


    As the property is mortgage free, will they have to sell it to pay for care.


    What happens if he is bad enough he has to go in to residential care, if they have to sell the house to pay for this where does my mother live.


    As you can tell by the questions I have no idea how these things work, could someone point me to the best place to research.
    Originally posted by UKSBD

    First of all, I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position, and it's so confusing when you have no idea how these things work.


    As others have said, don't worry about the house. My late husband had Alzheimer's, and when he finally went into a Care Home, we had a financial assessment carried out by the Local Authority, as to what we needed to pay.


    At that time (3 years ago), because I had looked after him for many years, and he then deteriorated and our Local Authority said he needed to go into a Care Home, he paid his State Retirement Pension, and half of his net Private Pension, less about £25 for "pocket money". He had less than £23.500 in his name.


    If I had been left with insufficient income, I could have claimed Pension Credit. There were also other things that can be deducted from the total you have to pay, and if the £30,000 you mention are solely in your Dad's name, then once the figure drops below £23,500 then you get Local Authority help.


    I hope this helps and I wish you and your family well.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 4th Sep 17, 9:12 PM
    • 1,362 Posts
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    Alice Holt
    • #8
    • 4th Sep 17, 9:12 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Sep 17, 9:12 PM
    Slightly off tangent but would he be eligible for AA?
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/attendance-allowance/

    Other sources of help might be Carers UK; Age UK - http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/social-care-funding-changes/care-cap-and-means-test-changes/
    • UKSBD
    • By UKSBD 4th Sep 17, 9:13 PM
    • 447 Posts
    • 140 Thanks
    UKSBD
    • #9
    • 4th Sep 17, 9:13 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Sep 17, 9:13 PM
    Thanks again,


    I don't really know the circumstances yet, will have to have a chat with mother soon to ensure she knows what to do (she is daunted by all the forms).


    She mentioned today that they will have to pay for homecare as they are £6k over the threshold which is why I assume they (or he) has £30k


    I guess If the money is just his, I need to make her aware how important that everything is paid from his savings rather than her paying with her money.


    Does it make any difference if the house is just in his name?
    They have been married 55 years but I wouldn't be surprised if it was just in his.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 4th Sep 17, 9:17 PM
    • 28,197 Posts
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    Mojisola
    All savings in his name and half of any in joint names will be taken into account.

    If he goes into care the house would not be sold and if she is a pensioner would be disregarded.
    Originally posted by Torry Quine
    If a spouse, partner or civil partner will still live in the house (plus some other categories of people), the age of the person going into care is irrelevant.
    • UKSBD
    • By UKSBD 4th Sep 17, 9:22 PM
    • 447 Posts
    • 140 Thanks
    UKSBD

    Thanks


    neither of them are concerned about having to pay for the care, my worry was that all their money would be spent on my fathers care and my mother could end up penniless and in a similar position in a few years.


    From what I have read since, it doesn't work like that though.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 4th Sep 17, 9:30 PM
    • 22,851 Posts
    • 13,207 Thanks
    xylophone
    http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS10_Paying_for_permanent_residential_care_fcs.pdf ?dtrk=true

    http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS46_Paying_for_care_and_support_at_home_fcs.pdf?d trk=true

    http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS34_Attendance_Allowance_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

    You should check whether your parents' home is owned solely by your father or by your parents as joint tenants/tenants in common.

    http://www.longmores-solicitors.co.uk/site/blog/residential-conveyancing/coowners-joint-tenants-or-tenants-in-common

    You can check the Land Registry.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/land-registry

    If the property is not owned as joint tenants, has your father/your mother made a will?
    • UKSBD
    • By UKSBD 4th Sep 17, 10:11 PM
    • 447 Posts
    • 140 Thanks
    UKSBD

    You can check the Land Registry.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/land-registry

    If the property is not owned as joint tenants, has your father/your mother made a will?
    Originally posted by xylophone

    Thanks,
    I was trying to look on the AgeUK site earlier but it wasn't working for me.


    I've just checked the Property Title and my Mother is listed as a registered owner, so one less thing to worry about.


    Hopefully the savings are in a joint account, will probably find out more tomorrow.


    If they are, and Fathers share is less than £14k should his homecare be supplied for free or does it vary from council to council?
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 4th Sep 17, 11:08 PM
    • 22,851 Posts
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    xylophone
    I was trying to look on the AgeUK site earlier but it wasn't working for me.
    Try typing

    age uk paying for care fact sheet

    into Google - it should then come up with the fact sheet 10 "Paying for Permanent Residential Care".

    This is very detailed and should clarify.

    If your father is to be cared for at home, have you looked into AA?

    Again, type

    Age UK Attendance Allowance factsheet

    into Google it should come up with Fact Sheet 34

    Type

    Age UK
    Paying for care and support at home


    and it should come up with Factsheet 46
    • SandraScarlett
    • By SandraScarlett 5th Sep 17, 12:29 AM
    • 3,893 Posts
    • 28,650 Thanks
    SandraScarlett
    Thanks,
    I was trying to look on the AgeUK site earlier but it wasn't working for me.


    I've just checked the Property Title and my Mother is listed as a registered owner, so one less thing to worry about.


    Hopefully the savings are in a joint account, will probably find out more tomorrow.


    If they are, and Fathers share is less than £14k should his homecare be supplied for free or does it vary from council to council?
    Originally posted by UKSBD

    My late husband had less than this, but he still had to pay for his attendance at a Day Centre (prior to going into the Care Home), and though that cost £9 an hour, it was half the price of the hourly rate for Home Care.


    It is however, a postcode lottery, and your Local Authority may have a different way of charging.
    • Carrieanne
    • By Carrieanne 5th Sep 17, 8:09 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    Carrieanne
    Thanks

    neither of them are concerned about having to pay for the care, my worry was that all their money would be spent on my fathers care and my mother could end up penniless and in a similar position in a few years.

    From what I have read since, it doesn't work like that though.
    Originally posted by UKSBD
    As you affirmed that neither of them are concerned about having to pay for the care (and with it effectively gifting the state a minimum of £6K) then what follows will be academic but it may be of interest to others' who might find themselves in a similar situation.

    I believe that a great many people, by sheer coincidence of course, would find this an opportune moment to spend £6K on any number of things - such as those essential (or not so) home repairs or improvements and/or replacing those faulty or tired white goods along with some furniture. They would ensure those expenses were paid from the bank account with the excess money.

    I daresay that some scallywags would purchase and have delivered to their own home items such as TVs, etc, that they're not going to replace but instead give to friends and family. After all, DWP agents are not going to pop around to inspect the goods.
    • SandraScarlett
    • By SandraScarlett 6th Sep 17, 10:54 AM
    • 3,893 Posts
    • 28,650 Thanks
    SandraScarlett
    As you affirmed that neither of them are concerned about having to pay for the care (and with it effectively gifting the state a minimum of £6K) then what follows will be academic but it may be of interest to others' who might find themselves in a similar situation.

    I believe that a great many people, by sheer coincidence of course, would find this an opportune moment to spend £6K on any number of things - such as those essential (or not so) home repairs or improvements and/or replacing those faulty or tired white goods along with some furniture. They would ensure those expenses were paid from the bank account with the excess money.

    I daresay that some scallywags would purchase and have delivered to their own home items such as TVs, etc, that they're not going to replace but instead give to friends and family. After all, DWP agents are not going to pop around to inspect the goods.
    Originally posted by Carrieanne

    If, as I was, a spouse is asked about their savings, it's important to stress that you're not the one who is needing care and I never gave an amount. When I had (yet another) visit from our LA, to ascertain how much DH had to pay for Day Care, I was asked if I had purchased any large items in the previous year "or so".


    I'd bought my DH a recliner/relaxer chair, a new bed, replaced the washing machine and produced receipts for all these and also added that, due to his condition, I was doing as much washing as if I had several toddlers.


    At that point, I was told they would deduct from DH's weekly income an amount, which I think was £12, to cover the excess washing. Whether this just applied to our LA, or to all, I don't know.


    Whether you're applying for help with Day Care, or Residential, it is bewildering, and as this task falls to the carer, who is usually exhausted, it's so hard.
    • UKSBD
    • By UKSBD 6th Sep 17, 4:49 PM
    • 447 Posts
    • 140 Thanks
    UKSBD
    I believe that a great many people, by sheer coincidence of course, would find this an opportune moment to spend £6K on any number of things.
    Originally posted by Carrieanne

    I Think that is fair enough to a degree.


    For example, my mother is having to have grab rails fitted for him, having to buy a wheelchair ramp, will probably have to buy him a reclining chair, if he can't cope with stairs she will have to buy him a bed and furniture to set up a downstairs bedroom.


    I've told her to use his money not theirs for these things as that seems fair as she may need her money for similar things in the future.


    She has had a lot more help now from Age Concern, so isn't as daunted as she was initially.
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