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    • andys56
    • By andys56 4th Sep 17, 12:40 PM
    • 6Posts
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    andys56
    Funding a complex move...
    • #1
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:40 PM
    Funding a complex move... 4th Sep 17 at 12:40 PM
    Hi
    I am asking for help with my situation. Basically my wife and i have found a house we wish to purchase in an area we know. Our family home is mortgage free, we have a second home in the same area mortgage free. The house we have offered on needs some work to enable my elderly mother in law to live with us, along with some updating, which means we would not be able to move in for however long those works take.
    We are both retired.My mother in law has a house to sell too which is mortgage free.
    She has early onset Alzheimer and we need her living with us to look after her, so we plan to retire permanently to this house we have found.
    Its a complex move, but before I can go further I need to get finance. The collateral we have is nearly twice as much as the new house will cost. I have a healthy monthly 'wage' from my pension.
    Any ideas on next steps??
Page 1
    • G_M
    • By G_M 4th Sep 17, 12:46 PM
    • 42,352 Posts
    • 49,208 Thanks
    G_M
    • #2
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:46 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:46 PM
    A mortgage may be possible, but with limited providers and depending on your age. There are a few (smaller) building societies that lend up to age 70ish (subject to income & shorter term ie 10 - 15 years).

    But the easiest option is surely to liquify some assets. Who lives in your 2nd property? Is itt empty or let out? Why not sell that?

    Woul that generate enough for an outright purchase perhaps supplemented with savings?

    Could you then afford the renovations, all move in, and then sell the other 2 properties (or let them out)?

    Bear in mind you'll pay the additonal 3% SDLT on the new property.

    If you need to sell 2 of the houses to finance the purchase, could you all live temporarily in eithr your current home or your MIL's home while renovations are done?

    Without knowing full financial figures it's hard to say what's best!
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 4th Sep 17, 12:55 PM
    • 8,635 Posts
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    teddysmum
    • #3
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:55 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:55 PM
    There could be complications over co-owning with mother-in-law.


    She has Alzheimers which you may find that you cannot manage (Lot's of people who are determined to do the caring themselves have to give up, because it is so demanding ) after a while, so will have to resort to residential care.


    She would be self funding if she has over £23,250 in property and other assets, so if she owns a third of your house how would she pay ? It could mean selling the house to release her money, buying her share or paying for her care, as she will be considered to still have her portion of the houses value, even if it's partly someone else's .


    Especially as she already has a disease which is known to need a lot of care, putting her money into a communal house could be sen as a deliberate case of Deprivation of Assets.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 4th Sep 17, 1:00 PM
    • 42,352 Posts
    • 49,208 Thanks
    G_M
    • #4
    • 4th Sep 17, 1:00 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Sep 17, 1:00 PM
    Given that she owns a property outright at present, it seems likely that any care costs would have to be self-funded.

    The shared property might just protect against that and/or against forced sale of her property (though as teddysmum says 'Deprivation of Assets'), but if not, the question would be could she (or you) afford the care costs and retain the new property?
    • andys56
    • By andys56 4th Sep 17, 1:41 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    andys56
    • #5
    • 4th Sep 17, 1:41 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Sep 17, 1:41 PM
    Hi,
    Mother in laws house is owned by my wife, the other properties by my wife and I.
    MIL is not too bad but we want to have her with us when we move. We are aged 59 and 60 so able to care for her.
    Property to be bought £320k plus renovation of say £70k
    Three properties valued at £425k , £150k and £150k (MIL owned by my wife)
    The new property would just be in my wife and I name
    We would aim to move as soon as property is ready, so within a year and then pay back the finance
    Thanks
    Last edited by andys56; 04-09-2017 at 1:42 PM. Reason: left info out
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 4th Sep 17, 1:45 PM
    • 5,587 Posts
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    00ec25
    • #6
    • 4th Sep 17, 1:45 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Sep 17, 1:45 PM
    as one of you is aged 60 or over the rule about forced sale does not apply if the property in question is occupied by both a carer over 60 and MIL as your main residence. Ie you will not be forced to sell the home you live in if MIL is a co-owner of it and resides with you at the point she goes into care. The council will instead put a charge on the property for MIL's share of its value.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 4th Sep 17, 1:48 PM
    • 23,688 Posts
    • 13,808 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #7
    • 4th Sep 17, 1:48 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Sep 17, 1:48 PM
    Do you or your wife have PoA for your MIL?

    If not, as the AD is at an early stage, does she have sufficient capacity to grant it?

    You say that you have offered for a property - you did this without any clear idea of how you would fund the purchase?

    If you sold your current residence, would the purchase price cover the cost of the new property?

    If so, you might sell it,

    buy the new property,

    sell MIL's property,

    all live together in your second property while the renovations are done on the new property, ((I think it would be permissible for MIL to pay for such elements of these as directly contributed to her personal needs - keep a careful note of costings and receipts)

    deposit/invest MIL's sale proceeds in her own name so that she can pay you "rent" as your lodger and have funds available should she need to self-fund in a care home.

    You can then either sell or keep the second property as required.
    • andys56
    • By andys56 4th Sep 17, 3:34 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    andys56
    • #8
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:34 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:34 PM
    Thanks for your replies, though the issue is not really my MIL health as we are dealing with that.
    It's more the juggling of finances.
    Realistically, we want to sell a house (ours) and move to a different part of the country where we have a small second home. My MIL lives on her own a couple of miles away from where we live now in a house owned by my wife.
    I don't wish to put MIL through two upheavals by selling the house she lives in to move in with us, and then move again in 6-12 months time.
    The house my wife and I have will more than pay for the new one, and then we have two further properties to provide income later.
    My problem is to bridge that time gap and minimise upheaval
    Thanks
    I am thinking bridging loans, short term mortgages etc
    Last edited by andys56; 04-09-2017 at 3:50 PM. Reason: clarification
    • scottishblondie
    • By scottishblondie 4th Sep 17, 4:01 PM
    • 1,978 Posts
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    scottishblondie
    • #9
    • 4th Sep 17, 4:01 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Sep 17, 4:01 PM
    So none of the properties actually belong to MIL at the moment, and she will not be a joint owner of the new property, she'll just be living there? Has the house MIL currently lives in always been owned by your wife, or is this a recent thing?

    At any rate, the simplest solution to me seems to be that you sell your current main residence to fund the purchase of the new house in its entirety. Put your stuff into storage and live in the small second home while renovations are underway. You wife could either come with you or live with her mother depending on the level of care she currently requires. Then when the new house is done sell MIL's house and all move into the new place together. Then you can decide what to do with the second home.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 4th Sep 17, 5:51 PM
    • 23,688 Posts
    • 13,808 Thanks
    xylophone
    I posted my last before I saw the post in which you added the information that your wife owns your MIL's house.

    Is this because she bought it/inherited it/was given it by her mother?

    If it was a gift, then it may be that if she should need means tested care, questions will be asked by the council.

    That aside, as the poster above says, if the sale of your residence will cover the cost of the new home, then you buy it with the proceeds, live in your second property, do the renovations, move in, move MIL in and then keep MIL's house or sell as required.
    • andys56
    • By andys56 5th Sep 17, 9:50 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    andys56
    Problem is MIL home and our second property are 21/2 hours apart, and the second home is a small cottage..so cannot live away from MIL and second property is far too small for us to live in.
    • scottishblondie
    • By scottishblondie 5th Sep 17, 10:53 AM
    • 1,978 Posts
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    scottishblondie
    Problem is MIL home and our second property are 21/2 hours apart, and the second home is a small cottage..so cannot live away from MIL and second property is far too small for us to live in.
    Originally posted by andys56
    No chance of one or both of you living with MIL then?

    What if you sold your home and rented somewhere in your current area to live and be close to MIL while the other property is renovated? You just need to work out if a 6 month rental is cheaper than a bridging loan or the ERCs on a mortgage.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 5th Sep 17, 1:29 PM
    • 23,688 Posts
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    xylophone
    Your wife lives with MIL while you live in the cottage and supervise the renovations?

    Or you employ a carer for MIL on a temporary basis while you both live in the cottage and supervise the renovations?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 5th Sep 17, 2:08 PM
    • 30,857 Posts
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    getmore4less
    Sell the £425k place to fund the purchase.

    Finding a temp place to live should be easy.

    Funding 4 houses 3 of them empty once the renovation are complete would not be ideal.
    • andys56
    • By andys56 13th Nov 17, 2:47 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    andys56
    Thanks everyone, some really good points all taken on board
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 13th Nov 17, 3:19 PM
    • 3,302 Posts
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    Cakeguts
    My neighbour has dementia. He got out of the house in the middle of the night the other day. His wife now has to hide the keys so that he doesn't go out and get lost.

    I hope one of you doesn't mind staying up all night to look after your MIL because that is probably what you will need to do in a few years time.

    My grandfather also had dementia. My grandmother dressed him one morning but when he went to use the toilet a few hours later he took all his clothes off again. I hope you are happy to provide 24 hour care? One of you will sleep during the day and the other at night?

    In 10 years time when your MIL cannot do anything for herself and you are aged 69 and 70 and you can't go out ever and leave her will you still be happy to be doing this?
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 13th Nov 17, 3:49 PM
    • 9,845 Posts
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    hazyjo
    My neighbour has dementia. He got out of the house in the middle of the night the other day. His wife now has to hide the keys so that he doesn't go out and get lost.

    I hope one of you doesn't mind staying up all night to look after your MIL because that is probably what you will need to do in a few years time.

    My grandfather also had dementia. My grandmother dressed him one morning but when he went to use the toilet a few hours later he took all his clothes off again. I hope you are happy to provide 24 hour care? One of you will sleep during the day and the other at night?

    In 10 years time when your MIL cannot do anything for herself and you are aged 69 and 70 and you can't go out ever and leave her will you still be happy to be doing this?
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    Sadly seconded. Am sure you're already aware of how this disease progresses and what the future holds, but it's really not a case of saying you want to care for them and not put them in a home. It really is a very idealistic view and rarely able to happen in the middle-latter stages of the disease.


    I have close friends with parents going through the same thing. No way could they look after them any more.
    2017 wins: Opera tickets; film preview; lipstick; Ideal Home Show tickets + afternoon tea & bottle of Champagne; 2 cases of NKD; notebook; bath rack; books; film Premiere; Broadchurch DVDs; lipbalms; hamper (food/wine/Echo Dot/Jo Malone goodies); Avon lippies; cowhide rug; Windsor luxury break, foundation; Flybe flight
    • chappers
    • By chappers 13th Nov 17, 4:52 PM
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    chappers
    just sell your main residence, buy new house, rent somewhere temp. until works are finished, sell all other property if you want and then move into new house.
    • phoebe1989seb
    • By phoebe1989seb 13th Nov 17, 5:07 PM
    • 3,154 Posts
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    phoebe1989seb
    I'm afraid I agree with Cakeguts and Hazyjo. I'm sure you've looked into what the future may hold for your MIL and yourselves as full time carers, but it really isn't a decision to be made lightly.

    Five years ago DH and I had three parents between us who were all in various stages of Alzheimer's/Vascular Dementia. We were then aged in our mid-forties and did consider having one or both of my parents live with us. Like yourselves, it was a complicated scenario as we had just purchased a large period restoration project and my Dad, who had been Mum's sole carer, suddenly developed Vasc Dementia, rapidly becoming far worse than Mum who was in the mid stage of Alz.

    We realised that even with one of us moving in with my parents whilst our building work was done, then moving them into a bespoke annex within our house, we just wouldn't be able to cope long term.

    Obviously that was with two parents plus we also had DH's Dad in a care home an hour away. Coping with one will be less stressful, but every case is different and - having also had a Grandma with dementia who regularly went AWOL from the house she shared with my Grandad (and who was also incredibly violent ) - I wouldn't want to take on the role of carer.....even with DH's support.

    It's an unenviable position to be in, but only you know if you'll be able to cope on a day to day basis. Having additional carers come in to share the load and give you both a break is something you'll need to consider.

    GL with whatever you decide......
    Paid off mortgage early - mortgage-free since age 40 (2007)

    Over £40,000 mis-sold PPI reclaimed
    • andys56
    • By andys56 30th Nov 17, 11:16 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    andys56
    Thank you to all, especially for sharing your experiences of living with a parent with Alzheimers...I just feel this is the best thing to do for her and my wife, and the right thing too. Life is for living and that takes up many guises..
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