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  • FIRST POST
    • nxdmsandkaskdjaqd
    • By nxdmsandkaskdjaqd 4th Sep 17, 10:18 AM
    • 467Posts
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    nxdmsandkaskdjaqd
    Landis+Gyr Smart Meters - Which Enery Providers
    • #1
    • 4th Sep 17, 10:18 AM
    Landis+Gyr Smart Meters - Which Enery Providers 4th Sep 17 at 10:18 AM
    I have just found out that my newly installed Smart Meters installed by British Gas may become Dumb when I switch energy providers.

    I have Landis+Gyr E470 electricity, Landis+Gyr G470 gas and a Trilliant SEAP-2001 Communication box. From my reading so far I understand that 1st generation meters may not always work with the national communication network (DCC).

    I suppose my first question is, are these boxes 1st or 2nd generation meters.

    2nd question, I need to switch energy suppliers and would like to maintain the functionality (particularly the energy display meter installed within the property), therefore can you tell me which energy suppliers theses smart meters work with?

    Many thanks.
Page 1
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 4th Sep 17, 10:36 AM
    • 2,979 Posts
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    matelodave
    • #2
    • 4th Sep 17, 10:36 AM
    • #2
    • 4th Sep 17, 10:36 AM
    It's not neccessarily the make of smart meter it's the communications protocol that the various suppliers use and how they gather the data so even if they used the same meter it still probably wouldn't communicate.

    There's no reason why the In Home Device shouldn't keep working if you change suppliers but you won't get info sent abck and forth to the supplier, so you still need to read the meter.

    AFAIK the BG meters will work with Sainsbury's Energy (as it's supplied by BG anyway) but that's all.

    Others may know different
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 4th Sep 17, 12:01 PM
    • 453 Posts
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    House Martin
    • #3
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:01 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:01 PM
    The E470 should be SMETS2 compliant and work OK when the DCC go s live.
    The G470 gas meter is the second generation L and G smart meters and will probably need a module change.
    The 3 rd generation L and G smart gas meter is the G370 smart ultrasonic zigbee which will work fine in SMETS2 as will the Trilliant hub.
    Look on the back of the IHD ecometer to see if there is a sticker saying "Zigbee certified product ", which will make it fine with SMETS2
    Last edited by House Martin; 04-09-2017 at 3:02 PM.
    • nxdmsandkaskdjaqd
    • By nxdmsandkaskdjaqd 4th Sep 17, 12:14 PM
    • 467 Posts
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    nxdmsandkaskdjaqd
    • #4
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:14 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:14 PM
    Look on the back of the IHD ecometer to see if there is a sticker saying "Zigbee certified product ", which will make it fine with SMETS2
    Originally posted by House Martin
    Unable to see if there any Zigbee markings, and have now contacted (Green Energy Options Ltd) them asking the question.

    Geeen Energy Options responded in a few minutes and confirm Zigbee IHD
    Last edited by nxdmsandkaskdjaqd; 04-09-2017 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Updated more info
    • nxdmsandkaskdjaqd
    • By nxdmsandkaskdjaqd 4th Sep 17, 12:26 PM
    • 467 Posts
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    nxdmsandkaskdjaqd
    • #5
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:26 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:26 PM
    There's no reason why the In Home Device shouldn't keep working if you change suppliers but you won't get info sent abck and forth to the supplier, so you still need to read the meter.
    t
    Originally posted by matelodave
    I,m ok with taking reading the meter, but as stated need the functionality to remain on the In Home Device.
    • nxdmsandkaskdjaqd
    • By nxdmsandkaskdjaqd 4th Sep 17, 12:34 PM
    • 467 Posts
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    nxdmsandkaskdjaqd
    • #6
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:34 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Sep 17, 12:34 PM
    This leads to another question as to how these Smart Meters work.

    1. Meter gatters usage data and passes this via a Wide Area Mobile Network to energy provider.
    2. Smart meters passes usage data to In House Device (IHD) via Local Area Network.

    If the above is right, how does the IHD know the actual suppliers specific cost of energy to display the correct £ cost on the IHD?
    • trickytree1963
    • By trickytree1963 4th Sep 17, 1:26 PM
    • 117 Posts
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    trickytree1963
    • #7
    • 4th Sep 17, 1:26 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Sep 17, 1:26 PM
    This leads to another question as to how these Smart Meters work.

    1. Meter gatters usage data and passes this via a Wide Area Mobile Network to energy provider.
    2. Smart meters passes usage data to In House Device (IHD) via Local Area Network.

    If the above is right, how does the IHD know the actual suppliers specific cost of energy to display the correct £ cost on the IHD?
    Originally posted by nxdmsandkaskdjaqd
    As far as I am aware the supplier has to upload tariff info via the Meter to the IHD and when tariffs change, change them on their Smart Metering systems.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 4th Sep 17, 1:27 PM
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    matelodave
    • #8
    • 4th Sep 17, 1:27 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Sep 17, 1:27 PM
    I think there's a comm channel back to the meter from the supplier otherwise a lot of the functionality wont be available.

    Mine has the unit rate which I can see but can't change and tells me how much I owe at the moment which accords pretty well with my own figures.

    We've only got leccy and the meter is an Elster A300P which communicates with the IHD on Zigbee channel 12.

    Dunno if it's going to be SMETS 2 compatible but I suspect that wil be a function of the communications module which may or may not be replaceable or re-programmable.

    I'm not bothered really. It works as a smart meter and it won't inconvenience me much if it reverts to a dumb one as I read it myself weekly anyway.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • jmnathan
    • By jmnathan 6th Sep 17, 8:43 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    jmnathan
    • #9
    • 6th Sep 17, 8:43 AM
    • #9
    • 6th Sep 17, 8:43 AM
    There's no reason why the In Home Device shouldn't keep working if you change suppliers but you won't get info sent abck and forth to the supplier, so you still need to read the meter.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    But presumably it wouldn't know your new unit rate so would either:

    (a) continue monitoring at the old rate with BG or
    (b) monitor usage only and not provide a cost, simply the rates consumed

    Unless there's some way of over riding the unit to amend the unit rates.
    • WayneB
    • By WayneB 6th Sep 17, 10:16 AM
    • 3 Posts
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    WayneB
    Switching and Translating MPAN numbers
    Interesting thread and I never realised that the smart meters/comms weren't standardised across all suppliers. I despair at this kind of stuff!

    I have recently installed British Gas smart meters (Gas E6S.. and Elec Z17...) and now wish to switch to Ovo via MSE energy club. However the form ask for the MPAN number and provides a 13 digit standardised field for you to enter it into. Obviously my new gas smart meter number does not fit that format so I can't complete the switch form.

    Can anyone offer advice on this?
    • trickytree1963
    • By trickytree1963 6th Sep 17, 10:31 AM
    • 117 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    trickytree1963
    Interesting thread and I never realised that the smart meters/comms weren't standardised across all suppliers. I despair at this kind of stuff!

    I have recently installed British Gas smart meters (Gas E6S.. and Elec Z17...) and now wish to switch to Ovo via MSE energy club. However the form ask for the MPAN number and provides a 13 digit standardised field for you to enter it into. Obviously my new gas smart meter number does not fit that format so I can't complete the switch form.

    Can anyone offer advice on this?
    Originally posted by WayneB
    Your MPAN doesn't change when you have a Smart Meter installed. If you are unsure of your MPAN contact your current supplier, they should confirm it for you.
    • WayneB
    • By WayneB 6th Sep 17, 10:56 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    WayneB
    Thanks Trickytree1963,

    If that's the case then that raises an interesting issue, as the original MPAN and MPRN numbers are no longer printed on the bill or on the new meters. They have been replaced with new smart meter numbers, so I would have to dig out an old bill or contact the supplier. It also means anyone taking over the property will have a lot of hassle finding those original numbers.
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 6th Sep 17, 11:17 AM
    • 10,249 Posts
    • 9,309 Thanks
    C_Mababejive
    Make sure the instaler is competent , fits it to the right standard and doesnt leave you with a roaring gas leak or dangerous electrics. Also do not sign any labels saying you have witnessed him/her doing x/y/z. It isnt your job to witness anything ,it is for him/her to do their work competently. This is another con going around.
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
    • trickytree1963
    • By trickytree1963 6th Sep 17, 1:22 PM
    • 117 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    trickytree1963
    Thanks Trickytree1963,

    If that's the case then that raises an interesting issue, as the original MPAN and MPRN numbers are no longer printed on the bill or on the new meters. They have been replaced with new smart meter numbers, so I would have to dig out an old bill or contact the supplier. It also means anyone taking over the property will have a lot of hassle finding those original numbers.
    Originally posted by WayneB
    They should be the Meter Serial Number ( MSN). The supplier can locate it on the National databases just from the MSN as well as by MPAN/MPRN
    • WayneB
    • By WayneB 6th Sep 17, 4:22 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    WayneB
    OK, well that's useful to know. However it does bring me back to the original problem that the MSE switch form has a fixed 13 digit format for MPAN numbers. I'll dig out an old bill or call BG for the MPAN number and go down that road. I guess it's not a show stopper just unecessary time and hassle.
    • keletkezes
    • By keletkezes 8th Sep 17, 4:36 PM
    • 22 Posts
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    keletkezes
    Semi-hijacking this thread to avoid starting another.

    I had a smart meter installed by my small energy supplier (Robin Hood) and I'm moving to a small energy supplier who don't use smart meters (they're not jumping on the first-wave wagon), Green Network Energy.

    Now I don't give a stuff about the 'your energy is costing you' part, because it is what it is. What I care about is being able to read the kWh amount for my almost-inaccessible gas meter (it's on the side of the wall almost under the kitchen sink, facing said sink). I used to do this with a little camera, but the flash will render the digital display unreadable.

    So will my In House Display continue to show me the kWh readout I need to give my new supplier?

    Also, in response to the MPAN stuff, I found it under the (i) key on my Display.
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 8th Sep 17, 6:57 PM
    • 453 Posts
    • 424 Thanks
    House Martin
    What make of smart meter have RH installed ?
    Use a mirror to read the meter, far better than any camera , if its too dark shine a torch on the face of the meter.
    • gsmlnx
    • By gsmlnx 8th Sep 17, 7:11 PM
    • 679 Posts
    • 545 Thanks
    gsmlnx
    Gas readings are never given in kWh but are measured by volume.
    The house display only gives an approximate kWh value for gas and that is only for the householder to have a rough idea of what they have used.
    But all energy companies need the volume used from the meter which is normally in m3 for modern meters.
    • keletkezes
    • By keletkezes 9th Sep 17, 11:26 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    keletkezes
    What make of smart meter have RH installed ?
    Use a mirror to read the meter, far better than any camera , if its too dark shine a torch on the face of the meter.
    Originally posted by House Martin
    No idea for the gas one. Electricity one says 'Secure' towards the top of the front, I think. But also relatively inaccessible. And I could use a mirror, yes, but I'm not sure my arms are long enough to reach in to do it, or press the button to show me, and I don't fit (with enough space to manipulate things) in the gap between the meter and the sink! Looks like I need a mirror on a stick or a persicope XD
    Gas readings are never given in kWh but are measured by volume.
    The house display only gives an approximate kWh value for gas and that is only for the householder to have a rough idea of what they have used.
    But all energy companies need the volume used from the meter which is normally in m3 for modern meters.
    Originally posted by gsmlnx
    That makes more sense: the kWh readout is miles out from what my Robin Hood account says I've used (by about a factor of 10) having investigated. I've used the reading on my Robin Hood account and given that to the new supplier.
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 9th Sep 17, 12:23 PM
    • 453 Posts
    • 424 Thanks
    House Martin
    Looks like you have the dreadful Liberty Secure electric meter, pushing button 9 gets the meter scrolling through too fast.If I remember right the Kwh read is on the 6 th page.I would video the whole lot if you can reach the horrible little keyboard.. This is how user unfriendly this meter is.
    I ve always used a cheap Ebay £1 Rolson extending mirror which extends around 18 inch, or the best one is f £5 from Clas Ohlson shop. I can reach every meter , and even press the button 9 with it..Its button 6 by the way for Eco 7 reads.
    The Secure gas meter gives the reading in both KWh and M3. The first screen can show either and a button can be pressed to toggle between the two first screen displays, not sure which one, otherwise its a press of button 9 to scroll through to see an 8 digit reading with M3 on it.. First five digits is the reading
    Last edited by House Martin; 10-09-2017 at 11:54 AM.
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