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    • evoke
    • By evoke 4th Sep 17, 10:10 AM
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    evoke
    Paying more on meter than neighbour with no meter
    • #1
    • 4th Sep 17, 10:10 AM
    Paying more on meter than neighbour with no meter 4th Sep 17 at 10:10 AM
    I live in a 3-bed semi and have a water meter. My water bill is significantly higher than my neighbour's water bill. I have a meter but they don't have a meter.

    I live alone and the neighbour has a family of five. My water meter was installed back in 2004, before I purchased my property.

    How can this be fair? I have to conserve water whilst they have inflatable paddling pools in the garden during the summer and can use as much water as they like! Is there anything that I can do do redress this unfairness?

    My water company just tell me that everyone will be on a water meter over the 'next 5 years or so'.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion!
Page 1
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 4th Sep 17, 11:33 AM
    • 27,022 Posts
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    Cardew
    • #2
    • 4th Sep 17, 11:33 AM
    • #2
    • 4th Sep 17, 11:33 AM
    Water bills are not fair - period!

    Why should someone living in the South West of UK pay over 3 times as much as - metered or unmetered - as some other parts of UK?

    The root of the unfairness* of those without meters paying charges based on the Rateable Value(RV) goes back to the Water Act that introduced privatisation of the Water companies in 1990.

    The aim of the Bill was that all properties would be metered, but allowed existing customers to choose initially between metered or unmetered charging.

    However, the bill enabled water companies to enforce fitment of a meter when the property was sold; or the account holder changed in the case of tenants.

    The problem was that the financing of the water companies means that there is no financial incentive for the companies to fit meters, or penalty if they failed to enforce that provision. Hence lots of companies simply didn't bother to fit meters and change of occupant did not mean a meter was fitted.

    * Bear in mind that for many people having a meter is much cheaper than charges based on the RV. I would pay over £1,000 more if my charges were based on the old RV.

    It is also pertinent to add that compulsory metering will not necessarily mean a reduction in water charges. For every household like your neighbour who will pay more, there are households that will pay less when a meter is compulsorily fitted.
    • evoke
    • By evoke 4th Sep 17, 3:08 PM
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    evoke
    • #3
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:08 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:08 PM
    Thanks for the informative reply.

    I had a long conversation with my water company this morning about this. Apparently there is a plan to move everyone in my street to metered water. However, it's a very, very long-term plan and they didn't want to tell me a time-frame.

    I then asked whether I could go back to an RV-based system for my bills. They said no. In fact, they looked up typical costs for my street and I'd end up paying more on an RV-based billing system, so I'm slightly better off with a meter.

    So, from a billing system perspective I'm happy with things.

    My main gripe is that the majority of residents down my street enjoy unlimited water consumption all year round and pay less than I do, where I have to carefully watch how much water I use.
    Last edited by evoke; 04-09-2017 at 3:10 PM.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion!
    • Swipe
    • By Swipe 4th Sep 17, 9:01 PM
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    Swipe
    • #4
    • 4th Sep 17, 9:01 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Sep 17, 9:01 PM
    My main gripe is that the majority of residents down my street enjoy unlimited water consumption all year round and pay less than I do, where I have to carefully watch how much water I use.
    Originally posted by evoke
    How much are you paying on your metered supply?
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 4th Sep 17, 11:30 PM
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    Cardew
    • #5
    • 4th Sep 17, 11:30 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Sep 17, 11:30 PM
    Thanks for the informative reply.

    I had a long conversation with my water company this morning about this. Apparently there is a plan to move everyone in my street to metered water. However, it's a very, very long-term plan and they didn't want to tell me a time-frame.

    I then asked whether I could go back to an RV-based system for my bills. They said no. In fact, they looked up typical costs for my street and I'd end up paying more on an RV-based billing system, so I'm slightly better off with a meter.

    So, from a billing system perspective I'm happy with things.

    My main gripe is that the majority of residents down my street enjoy unlimited water consumption all year round and pay less than I do, where I have to carefully watch how much water I use.
    Originally posted by evoke
    IMO the fair system is for everyone to be metered where possible. The loophole allowing new account holders(after April 1990) to retain RV charging should have been closed by the water companies and by now the vast majority of properties would be metered.

    However there are many other issues of unfairness in our water/sewerage system of charging.
    • evoke
    • By evoke 8th Sep 17, 8:51 AM
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    evoke
    • #6
    • 8th Sep 17, 8:51 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Sep 17, 8:51 AM
    How much are you paying on your metered supply?
    Originally posted by Swipe
    I get billed every 6 months and my last two bills have totalled £390 for the year.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion!
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 8th Sep 17, 9:19 AM
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    matelodave
    • #7
    • 8th Sep 17, 9:19 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Sep 17, 9:19 AM
    W pay around £350 a year on a meter. We use around 70cu.m a year so it works out at about £5 per cu.m for water & sewerage combined.

    It would be costing us around £600 if we'd stayed on the RV regime.

    Thats with Anglian Water - the unmetered standing charge for water and sewerage on their own is £519 without adding the RV poundage.
    Last edited by matelodave; 08-09-2017 at 10:13 AM.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 8th Sep 17, 9:22 AM
    • 27,022 Posts
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    Cardew
    • #8
    • 8th Sep 17, 9:22 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Sep 17, 9:22 AM
    I get billed every 6 months and my last two bills have totalled £390 for the year.
    Originally posted by evoke
    What company? and do you pay for Surface Water Drainage?
    • brewerdave
    • By brewerdave 10th Sep 17, 9:30 AM
    • 4,562 Posts
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    brewerdave
    • #9
    • 10th Sep 17, 9:30 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Sep 17, 9:30 AM
    Thanks for the informative reply.

    I had a long conversation with my water company this morning about this. Apparently there is a plan to move everyone in my street to metered water. However, it's a very, very long-term plan and they didn't want to tell me a time-frame.

    I then asked whether I could go back to an RV-based system for my bills. They said no. In fact, they looked up typical costs for my street and I'd end up paying more on an RV-based billing system, so I'm slightly better off with a meter.

    So, from a billing system perspective I'm happy with things.
    Originally posted by evoke
    ...So how are your neighbours paying significantly less than you if they are (presumably) paying on RV?? Have you actually seen their water bill?
    I've had a water meter for 5 years and I've "saved" ~ £2k vs what I would have paid on the old RV method.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 10th Sep 17, 7:53 PM
    • 27,022 Posts
    • 13,142 Thanks
    Cardew
    ...So how are your neighbours paying significantly less than you if they are (presumably) paying on RV?? Have you actually seen their water bill?
    I've had a water meter for 5 years and I've "saved" ~ £2k vs what I would have paid on the old RV method.
    Originally posted by brewerdave
    It is perfectly possible for properties to have very low Rateable Value(RV) and thus pay very low water charges.

    Bear in mind that the majority of properties in England had their RV assessment in 1973, or between 1973 and 1990 if their properties were built in this period. That RV assessment was based on the notional rent the property would command.

    As I have posted before I know of large mansions that were almost derelict in 1973. They had a 'peppercorn' RV then because nobody would want to rent such a property. However they have since been modernised and are Band H for Council tax but have a lower RV than a Band A flat on an estate.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 5th Oct 17, 2:20 PM
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    teddysmum
    ...So how are your neighbours paying significantly less than you if they are (presumably) paying on RV?? Have you actually seen their water bill?
    I've had a water meter for 5 years and I've "saved" ~ £2k vs what I would have paid on the old RV method.
    Originally posted by brewerdave
    We have just had our first metered bill and going on this we (just a couple in 3 bedroomed semi) will have saved around £1600 in the same time.
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 5th Oct 17, 3:17 PM
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    jack_pott
    I switched to a meter 20 years ago, and my 2017 bill is still only two thirds of what it was in 1997.
    I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.
    Friedrich Nietzsche
    • akwexavante
    • By akwexavante 24th Oct 17, 1:24 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    akwexavante
    I live alone and I'm with Yorkshire Water and I get upset if my quarterly Water / Sewage bill is more than £24! That's a tad under £200 a year in total.


    Are you wasting water in some way or do you have a leak?


    I recently had a new boiler fitted (A combi boiler) and my water usage went up significantly because the time it took for hot water to reach the taps was greatly increased. My gas bill went down too but did even better when I fitted restrictors on each hot water tap to reduce water flow. My water bill is now a lot less and so is my gas bill.


    Reducing hot water flow at the taps increases the amount of time the cold water remains within the boiler being heated up before it travels along pipework to the open tap. Reducing water and gas wastage.
    • tealady
    • By tealady 4th Nov 17, 7:46 AM
    • 2,725 Posts
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    tealady
    I live alone and I'm with Yorkshire Water and I get upset if my quarterly Water / Sewage bill is more than £24! That's a tad under £200 a year in total.


    Are you wasting water in some way or do you have a leak?


    I recently had a new boiler fitted (A combi boiler) and my water usage went up significantly because the time it took for hot water to reach the taps was greatly increased. My gas bill went down too but did even better when I fitted restrictors on each hot water tap to reduce water flow. My water bill is now a lot less and so is my gas bill.


    Reducing hot water flow at the taps increases the amount of time the cold water remains within the boiler being heated up before it travels along pipework to the open tap. Reducing water and gas wastage.
    Originally posted by akwexavante
    Thanks for that. Ihad been saving the cold water and using it to flush the loo (for yellows, browns get a "proper" flush IYSWIM)
    Proud to be an MSE nerd
    Judge people by their achievements, not by their mistakes
    • ariba10
    • By ariba10 4th Nov 17, 9:10 AM
    • 5,174 Posts
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    ariba10
    Our water bill doubled two years ago due to an underground leak after the meter.
    I used to be indecisive but now I am not sure.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 4th Nov 17, 9:23 AM
    • 60,705 Posts
    • 354,876 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    I get billed every 6 months and my last two bills have totalled £390 for the year.
    Originally posted by evoke
    I live alone, I have two separate bills (two companies, twice a year, four bills in total). I pay about £120/year in total from memory.

    You either have a leak, or have a lifestyle using more water than you're aware of.

    Try not washing so often
    It works for me.
    Last edited by PasturesNew; 04-11-2017 at 9:25 AM.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 4th Nov 17, 11:35 AM
    • 3,082 Posts
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    matelodave
    Our water bill doubled two years ago due to an underground leak after the meter.
    Originally posted by ariba10
    If you've got a meter it's worthwhile to take your own readings as it can help you reduce your consumption and find problems before they get out of hand.

    I read mine monthly and couple of years ago noticed a big increase in consumption over six times the normal) which indicated that there was a leak. We got it sorted out before it damaged the drived or undermined the house foundations and wewere credited for the lost water by AW.

    Waiting six month to a year for a bill to come in or even not noticing it at all had we been on RV could have ended up with the house subsiding and a bill for £1000's.

    Not only that our bill is at least £250 a year less by having a meter than it would be on RV. We could save even more but we choose to have an automatic garden watering system switched on in the summer to keep the flowers happy.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 4th Nov 17, 12:52 PM
    • 3,825 Posts
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    footyguy
    What company? and do you pay for Surface Water Drainage?
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Almost 2 months later, have we had an answer to these two simple questions?
    I see the OP has been online this morning, but didn't post in this thread.

    I would also have asked how much water the OP used just to make it simpler for us, but we could always find out if these two simple questions were answered, I suspect.

    Like PN's post today, I would have thought a single occupant, who I would anticipate to use about 50-60 units per year, would pay about 1/3rd what the OP pays (although the exact cost will depend on supplier)
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