Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • BenStanley
    • By BenStanley 3rd Sep 17, 8:43 PM
    • 15Posts
    • 9Thanks
    BenStanley
    Parking Fine Court Summons
    • #1
    • 3rd Sep 17, 8:43 PM
    Parking Fine Court Summons 3rd Sep 17 at 8:43 PM
    Hey guys,

    I have just received a court notice from a car parking company and this is the first I have heard about it. I sold the car a long time ago and it was registered to my parents house (we haven't spoken in years) and post they get for me they write "not at this address" and send it back.

    My dad accidentally opened a letter thinking it was for him and it seems it is a court summons for a car I no longer own but it seems I may have been the driver. He forwarded it on this time with an accompanying note. The orginal charge is about £60 but now they are trying to claim £400+ can some one advise me on if I now have to pay this amount or can I get it reduced?

    It was actually for parking outside of my flat when our electric gates were broken for a few days, according the the summons the have photos of my car being there for longer than the allotted time :

    Any help would be welcome don this please
Page 2
    • BenStanley
    • By BenStanley 3rd Sep 17, 11:37 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    BenStanley
    As far as I am aware they have no proof but as I haven't received any of the previous correspondence I am unsure.
    • BenStanley
    • By BenStanley 3rd Sep 17, 11:40 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    BenStanley
    This was just before Christmas so do you know what the issue was? Overstaying maybe, how long?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Overstaying but not sure by how long I am afraid as my dad returned all letters to sender
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Sep 17, 12:01 AM
    • 50,150 Posts
    • 63,524 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    As a visitor to the residential flats beyond the barrier, or to Tesco or restaurants/shops?

    Issued by post only (ANPR cameras)? Or were there two windscreen PCNs in December?

    I was trying to find the Planning Permission agreement on the 'max stay' parking time and spotted that there are also flats there, and staff spaces, and that there are two possible entrances mentioned (could be useful - PCM would have to be sure the car didn't exit and then return via the other entrance mentioned):

    http://publicaccess.tewkesbury.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=J MPCSGQD0AJ00

    http://publicaccess.tewkesbury.gov.uk/online-applications/files/2A168A0E60C2B07A9FDC5D9CA78FF4E2/pdf/07_01145_FUL--_HIGHWAYS_STATEMENT-158030.pdf

    Assuming that's the right place, it might be worth you reading all the documents there, to see if the time limit on PCM's signs is actually what the Planning Permission imposed.

    Point 2.57 and 2.58 in the second link say the max stay ''will be'' 2 hours. Does that match?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 04-09-2017 at 6:13 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • BenStanley
    • By BenStanley 4th Sep 17, 12:13 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    BenStanley
    I live in the flats above and I'm pretty sure on those days our electric gates weren't working which is why I parked outside.

    I'm fairly sure one was 2 hours but the other wasn't, and yes photos and postal only I've never had a physical ticket.

    I will read through the links first thing in the morning! Thank you so much! Your knowledge is amazing!
    • BenStanley
    • By BenStanley 4th Sep 17, 12:14 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    BenStanley
    There is also only 1 way in and out of the car park and as far as I'm aware there aren't in and out camera's
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Sep 17, 6:46 PM
    • 50,150 Posts
    • 63,524 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I live in the flats above and I'm pretty sure on those days our electric gates weren't working which is why I parked outside.

    I'm fairly sure one was 2 hours but the other wasn't,
    There will be ANPR cameras, or a hapless goon who takes random pics on a camera phone.

    I'd go with defending this as the driver (not saying 'I am the registered keeper and the driver will not be named') because you have a defence here. You are a resident with an unfettered right to access the flats via the Tesco car park (it is even mentioned as a bit of an issue in that link, I seem to recall from when I skim-read it last night).

    I'd be saying, early on in your defence (which you write in the third person and include all the usual stuff you see in Johnersh's own space/residential defence example in #2 of the NEWBIES thread) that:



    1.1 At all times, the Defendant was a resident of xxxxxx xxxx (flats) and was not a customer parking at Tesco, or any other residential/commercial units, nor was the Defendant in any way abusing the retail park facility.

    1.2 Flat residents at this location have an unfettered right to use a single entrance that takes them past any camera/through the retail car park. On more than one occasion, the electric gates have not been working and residents have been stranded whilst waiting for them to be fixed, in order to access the secure part of the site.

    1.3 The Defendant avers that the undetailed events vaguely referred to in the Claimant's particulars must relate to two such occasions. As such, the Defendant cannot be liable to pay any parking charge which arose due to a failure of a gate on site leading to their space; a matter causing a delay in parking which was completely out of the driver's control.

    1.4 The Defendant would have had no reason whatsoever to park by choice, outside of the allocated secure area for tenants, since the Defendant lives there and has a right to a space which is not restricted to any 2 hour time limit.

    1.5 The Claimant is put to strict proof that the car was parked in the same space for more than 2 hours. Even if they are able to evidence this, there was no relevant obligation nor relevant contract that the Defendant could have agreed to, or could have been considered to have breached.

    1.6 It is argued that it would be unconscionable for these charges to be pursued and upheld in the courts, under the circumstances described. Each parking charge case turns on its own facts, and this matter can be fully distinguished from ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 where the penalty rule was found to be undisputably engaged, yet that Claimant's charge in a 'unique' and complex case, escaped being held to be an unrecoverable penalty.

    1.7 In all cases, it remains the Claimant's burden to demonstrate a 'legitimate interest' in recovering any sum higher than the landholder could claim for damages and the Claimant is put to strict proof of their alleged commercial justification/legitimate interest in pursuing residents disadvantaged and delayed by an electronic gate failure.

    1.8 Any failure of the gates leading to the secure area is fully within the control of the site landowner, who must be the same party with whom this Claimant contracts. There can be no lawful reason to use the excuse of stranding residents outside of the secure area, to then impose charges upon them for this misfortune.

    1.9 This is surely a matter of frustration of contract, and/or derogation from grant, neither of which can lead to a liability for the innocent party of a driver unable to move their car until the gates were opened. There is no question that Residents are entitled to use the car park in question to reach/leave the residents' secure parking area. This right is proven to be the case, as recorded in the Planning documents, where concerns were raised at Local authority discussions regarding the fact that residents would have to use the retail park to access and egress their spaces.

    1.10 Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, ''a term or notice is unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract, to the consumer’s detriment''. Fairness must be considered by any court considering a consumer 'contract' matter and 'unfairness' is determined taking into account:

    (a) the nature of the subject matter of the contract or notice
    (b) all the circumstances existing when the term was agreed to, and
    (c) all of the other terms of the contract or any other contract on which it depends

    ''Significant imbalance'' is concerned with the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract. The requirement is met if a term is so weighted in favour of a business that it tilts the rights and obligations under the contract significantly in its favour, for instance, granting the trader undue discretion or imposing a disadvantageous burden on the consumer. It is confidently argued that this must be the case here, where the Claimant's principal - the landowner - is the same party responsible for the upkeep of the site, gates, etc., and neither that party nor their agents can lawfully profit or gain from the delay caused to residents having to wait, on some occasions, for the gate mechanism to be released.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 04-09-2017 at 7:06 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 4th Sep 17, 9:07 PM
    • 418 Posts
    • 753 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Overstaying but not sure by how long I am afraid as my dad returned all letters to sender
    If this is correct the PPC were on notice that they were pursuing you at the wrong address, yet resolved to issue proceedings?

    FFS, I'd be arguing that (a) it's not good service (unless you have acknowledged already) and (b) that they are not entitled to pursue you for any amount other than the original charge on the basis that they were corresponding in willful blindness as an exercise in costs building. That is inappropriate and a misuse of court resources and disregard for the protocol re pre-action conduct.
    • BenStanley
    • By BenStanley 5th Sep 17, 1:27 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    BenStanley
    If this is correct the PPC were on notice that they were pursuing you at the wrong address, yet resolved to issue proceedings?

    FFS, I'd be arguing that (a) it's not good service (unless you have acknowledged already) and (b) that they are not entitled to pursue you for any amount other than the original charge on the basis that they were corresponding in willful blindness as an exercise in costs building. That is inappropriate and a misuse of court resources and disregard for the protocol re pre-action conduct.
    Originally posted by Johnersh
    I have already acknowledged already sadly
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Sep 17, 6:07 PM
    • 50,150 Posts
    • 63,524 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Right, so proceed as per Plan A and look at the defence style already mentioned to copy from, and add in the part I wrote. Show us the resulting draft defence, with headings as shown in the example.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • BenStanley
    • By BenStanley 12th Sep 17, 11:52 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    BenStanley
    How will I know if my Acknowledgment was in time or not?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Sep 17, 11:53 AM
    • 14,622 Posts
    • 23,004 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    How will I know if my Acknowledgment was in time or not?
    Originally posted by BenStanley
    Phone the CCBC and ask.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,863Posts Today

9,140Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • In or near York? This Wed the @itvmlshow Roadshow" will be at the York Food & Drink Festival - do come and say hi; St Sampsons Square 11-4.

  • It's the subtle poetry and lyricism of tweets like this that I find so endearing https://t.co/XhSKBCGyXe

  • Interesting well argued take on the Uber situation from a black cab driver... https://t.co/c1I5ta0jde

  • Follow Martin