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  • FIRST POST
    • 89y32ry987
    • By 89y32ry987 3rd Sep 17, 12:27 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 2Thanks
    89y32ry987
    Pay & display PLUS permit
    • #1
    • 3rd Sep 17, 12:27 PM
    Pay & display PLUS permit 3rd Sep 17 at 12:27 PM
    I parked in a car park and bought a pay and display ticket.

    I didn't realise it was a car park for permit holders only. Before you are entitled to buy a ticket, you need to have a permit / register your registration with the car park operator.

    The pay and display machine looked exactly the same, and the Pay By Phone app allowed me to buy a ticket and confirmed on my screen that "parking had started". Admittedly I did not seek out the sign and read it thoroughly to discover that I needed a permit as well, but the process for buying a ticket was exactly the same, and payment was accepted.

    The app could easily have (1) highlighted that this was a permit holders only car park or (2) rejected my payment as it knows my registration, and could determine that my vehicle was not registered.

    I was surprised to get a ticket, but there is no phone number to call, so I started the appeal process believing it had been a mistake, and parked in the same place the next day.

    Obviously I got a second ticket.

    I appreciate;

    1. There were signs
    2. I didn't have a permit

    ..but really?
Page 1
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 3rd Sep 17, 12:44 PM
    • 2,412 Posts
    • 3,636 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #2
    • 3rd Sep 17, 12:44 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Sep 17, 12:44 PM
    Welcome to scammers land of private parking.
    Read the newbies thread at the top of this forum.
    Which ppc is it?
    I don't know why you repeated the same mistake again.
    I don't know why you think a third part app would be that sophisticated .
    Last edited by fisherjim; 03-09-2017 at 12:48 PM.
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 3rd Sep 17, 3:42 PM
    • 26,007 Posts
    • 32,888 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    • #3
    • 3rd Sep 17, 3:42 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Sep 17, 3:42 PM
    This could get confusing. To buy the ticket you needed to have a permit therefore you were effectively trespassing and could not be given an invoice(fine). However you got a ticket to park using their system which should have stopped you before you started parking.
    What was the ticket(fine) for?
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Sep 17, 3:44 PM
    • 50,024 Posts
    • 63,418 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 3rd Sep 17, 3:44 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Sep 17, 3:44 PM
    This is one case where the app undoubtedly breaches consumer law on distance contracts, not that POPLA understand that (if this was a BPA AOS member).

    Which PPC?

    Have you appealed both of these and blabbed about who parked/was driving in BOTH appeals?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • 89y32ry987
    • By 89y32ry987 6th Sep 17, 11:17 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    89y32ry987
    • #5
    • 6th Sep 17, 11:17 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Sep 17, 11:17 AM
    The PPC is SIP.

    I repeated the mistake because I didn't realise I'd made a mistake. I assume the parking chap hadn't seen the ticket on my dashboard or something.

    I write apps for a living, so I expect them to be that sophisticated :-)

    I'm not sure if I still have the original fine - I think the description was vague. I'll see if it's in the pile of papers on my desk when i get home.

    Yes, I appealed both, and revealed my identity (believing I had nothing to hide).
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 6th Sep 17, 11:46 AM
    • 5,955 Posts
    • 7,672 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #6
    • 6th Sep 17, 11:46 AM
    • #6
    • 6th Sep 17, 11:46 AM
    The PPC is SIP.

    I repeated the mistake because I didn't realise I'd made a mistake. I assume the parking chap hadn't seen the ticket on my dashboard or something.

    I write apps for a living, so I expect them to be that sophisticated :-)

    I'm not sure if I still have the original fine - I think the description was vague. I'll see if it's in the pile of papers on my desk when i get home.

    Yes, I appealed both, and revealed my identity (believing I had nothing to hide).
    Originally posted by 89y32ry987
    SIP get up to all sorts of scamming tricks ?

    As said above, how did the app allow you to buy a ticket if
    a permit was required first
    A flawed system and the courts don't like flaws.

    Surely as you paid by the app, you did so by card so
    you will have proof
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • 89y32ry987
    • By 89y32ry987 6th Sep 17, 11:59 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    89y32ry987
    • #7
    • 6th Sep 17, 11:59 AM
    • #7
    • 6th Sep 17, 11:59 AM
    Yes, paid by card.

    And the app screenshot below that shows I still had 4 hours left when I got back to the car.

    flic.kr/p/Yt37kr
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 6th Sep 17, 12:03 PM
    • 5,955 Posts
    • 7,672 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #8
    • 6th Sep 17, 12:03 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Sep 17, 12:03 PM
    Yes, paid by card.

    And the app screenshot below that shows I still had 4 hours left when I got back to the car.

    flic.kr/p/Yt37kr
    Originally posted by 89y32ry987
    So, you have the proof you paid.
    Next job is to take pics from all angles to show the signs
    are not clear

    Other question is .... you paid by app so the PPC will have your money
    Is there anything on their signs that says you have to pay for
    parking twice ???
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 6th Sep 17, 1:29 PM
    • 2,412 Posts
    • 3,636 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #9
    • 6th Sep 17, 1:29 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Sep 17, 1:29 PM
    If the App is generic like Ringo and Pay by Phone etc they are just middle men that take the charge against a reference number for the site, and log the timings no more than that.

    They take the commission fee charged and laugh all the way to the bank, of course the permit clause is the PPC scam,

    SIP are members of the IPC so you are at the wait and see stage, if they try a claim you need to base your appeal on signage which must be awful or you would have known what to do, this really does seem like a honey trap.

    You should redact that image immediately it has too much info on it.
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • 89y32ry987
    • By 89y32ry987 6th Sep 17, 1:48 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    89y32ry987
    ** From their perspective **
    The sign does say you need a permit (or to be electronically registered)

    * My perspective **
    Honest mistake
    The 'system' let me proceed
    Given they allow electronic registration (none of the other cars actually display a permit), they should be able to tell me that I can't park here.
    They app confirmed parking had started and gave me a count down
    They took my money (and still have it)


    Good point about the photo, I've deleted it and put this here for other users reference
    flic.kr/p/YtaA6T
    • 89y32ry987
    • By 89y32ry987 6th Sep 17, 1:50 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    89y32ry987
    Oh, the Independent Appeals Service has already ruled in their favour.

    "Signage says you need a permit, and you didn't have one"
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 6th Sep 17, 2:18 PM
    • 5,955 Posts
    • 7,672 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Oh, the Independent Appeals Service has already ruled in their favour.

    "Signage says you need a permit, and you didn't have one"
    Originally posted by 89y32ry987
    The IAS is the biggest load of rubbish, invented by Gladstones
    solicitors to scam and extort money.

    They are a kangaroo court that even skippy would be ashamed of

    You just ignore them
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • 89y32ry987
    • By 89y32ry987 6th Sep 17, 2:29 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    89y32ry987
    The fine currently stands at £140 per ticket. Final warning. Next step lawyers.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Sep 17, 12:46 AM
    • 50,024 Posts
    • 63,418 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The fine currently stands at £140 per ticket. Final warning. Next step lawyers.
    Originally posted by 89y32ry987
    Well no, it's not a fine and Gladstones are...hmmmm...not difficult to beat if a claim arrives.

    IAS was not a step that should have been taken. A mistake, there was no appeal and this just handed the advantage to the other side. We wish you had come here earlier. Please stick around and get advice to get the next steps right. You do not need a solicitor.

    We help people win these v SIP/Gladstones all the time, with no risk of a CCJ (one person lost in the past year, after full forum hand-holding for their claim stages). He just paid about £200, nothing bad, no CCJ, nowt. Al the rest won, or had the claim discontinued with no hearing.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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