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  • FIRST POST
    • stator
    • By stator 2nd Sep 17, 11:16 AM
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    stator
    new 3 port valve actuator - odd results
    • #1
    • 2nd Sep 17, 11:16 AM
    new 3 port valve actuator - odd results 2nd Sep 17 at 11:16 AM
    I've replaced my own three port valve actuator because a heating engineer let me down. I did a like for like replacement of just the actuator.

    Now the hot water works fine, but the heating only comes on if the hot water is off. The HW and CH are both supposed to come on in the morning, and then the HW goes off at 9:10am and the CH stays on. So what's happening is that the CH is off when it should be on but comes on at 9:10am.

    The 3 port valve without the actuator seems to turn ok.

    Do you think I have a duff actuator and need to get another one?

    The old one was broken and was stuck on hot water only. So I'm a little confused why the CH is working but only when the HW is off. It must be moving the valve, but won't stop in the middle?

    It's a Drayton MA1
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Page 1
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 2nd Sep 17, 11:32 AM
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    Alex1983
    • #2
    • 2nd Sep 17, 11:32 AM
    • #2
    • 2nd Sep 17, 11:32 AM
    Have you got a multi meter? What voltage do you have on grey, white and orange when you have heating and hot water on?
    • stator
    • By stator 5th Sep 17, 10:38 PM
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    stator
    • #3
    • 5th Sep 17, 10:38 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Sep 17, 10:38 PM
    So the results are as follows:
    Water only: Orange : 230v / White: 23v (not a typo) / Grey: 0v
    CH Only: Orange 230v / White 230v / Grey: 230v
    Both: Orange 230v / White 23v (not a typo) / Grey: 0v

    I've double checked all the wiring is correct as per the Drayton installation manual.
    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by stator; 06-09-2017 at 12:40 AM.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 5th Sep 17, 10:56 PM
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    Alex1983
    • #4
    • 5th Sep 17, 10:56 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Sep 17, 10:56 PM
    The 23v is the issue.

    You should have

    HW Only - 230v orange only
    CH Only - 230v on all 3
    Both - 230v orange and white

    The 23v on white is strange, the white cable on the valve will trace back to the room stat. Would probably be worth linking the room stat out to start with, if your confident to do that.
    • stator
    • By stator 8th Sep 17, 4:22 PM
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    stator
    • #5
    • 8th Sep 17, 4:22 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Sep 17, 4:22 PM
    The room thermostat is a wireless system, but it's Drayton so I was thinking of just replacing it with a wired Drayton unit which you can get for about £15 and it looks like they use the same backplate, so no wiring required.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • dggar
    • By dggar 8th Sep 17, 4:33 PM
    • 554 Posts
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    dggar
    • #6
    • 8th Sep 17, 4:33 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Sep 17, 4:33 PM
    The room thermostat is a wireless system, but it's Drayton so I was thinking of just replacing it with a wired Drayton unit which you can get for about £15 and it looks like they use the same backplate, so no wiring required.
    Originally posted by stator


    I can't quite see how you replace a wireless thermostat with a wired thermostat and not have to wire it to the boiler.
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 8th Sep 17, 4:48 PM
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    Alex1983
    • #7
    • 8th Sep 17, 4:48 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Sep 17, 4:48 PM
    I would guess he's thinking of swapping it with the wireless receiver, it will be the same back plate so won't need to alter anything.

    I would link the reciever out first to prove your fault, just take the receiver of the back plate and join the cables in 1 and 3 together, leave the receiver of the back plate, be care as it will be live, and then test your 3 port to see if it cures it.
    • stator
    • By stator 8th Sep 17, 5:01 PM
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    stator
    • #8
    • 8th Sep 17, 5:01 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Sep 17, 5:01 PM
    I can't quite see how you replace a wireless thermostat with a wired thermostat and not have to wire it to the boiler.
    Originally posted by dggar
    Just temporarily to prove where the fault is.
    I know having a room thermostat in my airing cupboard isn't much use
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • stator
    • By stator 8th Sep 17, 6:27 PM
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    stator
    • #9
    • 8th Sep 17, 6:27 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Sep 17, 6:27 PM
    I would guess he's thinking of swapping it with the wireless receiver, it will be the same back plate so won't need to alter anything.

    I would link the reciever out first to prove your fault, just take the receiver of the back plate and join the cables in 1 and 3 together, leave the receiver of the back plate, be care as it will be live, and then test your 3 port to see if it cures it.
    Originally posted by Alex1983
    I tried as you suggested but it behaved exactly the same. Water or Heating, the actuator moved the valve to one or the other, never stopping in between
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 8th Sep 17, 7:07 PM
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    Alex1983
    It's strange.

    Can you try putting both on and testing what voltage you have on connection 1 at the receiver back plate. It should be 230v. If its 23v I guess it could only be the programmer. If it's 230v then the next thing you could try is to put the receiver back and split the cables at the white of the diverter valve and make sure you have 230v coming from the receiver.
    • stator
    • By stator 8th Sep 17, 7:23 PM
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    stator
    Thanks I'll give that a try.
    I was thinking I might just buy the Drayton set. Then I can replace the Programmer and the 3 port valve motor and even the two thermostats and it would probably still work out cheaper than calling someone in. It would all be like for like replacements so should be simple
    http://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-pbbe58-biflo-central-heating-control-pack/1344g
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • stator
    • By stator 9th Sep 17, 4:05 PM
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    stator
    With the thermostat removed the programmer doesn't output anything on pin 1. But you get 23v on pin 3, which I have trippled checked is definitely connected to the MPV white and nothing else, so I guess that's where it is coming from.

    I've ordered the multi pack so I can replace the MPV motor and the programmer
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 9th Sep 17, 4:28 PM
    • 30,267 Posts
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    getmore4less
    So the results are as follows:
    Water only: Orange : 230v / White: 23v (not a typo) / Grey: 0v
    CH Only: Orange 230v / White 230v / Grey: 230v
    Both: Orange 230v / White 23v (not a typo) / Grey: 0v

    I've double checked all the wiring is correct as per the Drayton installation manual.
    Any thoughts?
    Originally posted by stator
    Thought

    Why is the call for water(grey 240v>0v) turning off the call for heating(White 240v>0v?23v)?

    with both off there should still be 240v on grey.
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 9th Sep 17, 4:52 PM
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    • 340 Thanks
    Alex1983
    It seems if you have 23v at pin 3 of receiver then the back voltage has to be coming from the mid pos valve head, but you should have 239v on the receiver pin 1 when your calling for CH.

    How many cables are in the programmer, do you have a CH ON, HW OFF and HW ON?

    Get more, I don't quite understand what your trying to say, with both off you will have 230v on grey.
    • stator
    • By stator 9th Sep 17, 5:22 PM
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    stator
    Apart from L and N there are three wires connected according to the Drayton diagram. HW Off / HW On / CH On. The CH off connection has nothing in it, which I guess is correct looking at the schematics in the various installation instructions I can see.
    I checked the jumper on the back of the unit and it is set to P for pumped instead of G for gravity, which is also correct.
    So I suppose it must be a faulty unit.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 9th Sep 17, 5:40 PM
    • 30,267 Posts
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    getmore4less
    It seems if you have 23v at pin 3 of receiver then the back voltage has to be coming from the mid pos valve head, but you should have 239v on the receiver pin 1 when your calling for CH.

    How many cables are in the programmer, do you have a CH ON, HW OFF and HW ON?

    Get more, I don't quite understand what your trying to say, with both off you will have 230v on grey.
    Originally posted by Alex1983
    standard Y plan with water off OR on but up to temp, grey should be live on the actuator
    • stator
    • By stator 9th Sep 17, 5:57 PM
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    • 3,874 Thanks
    stator
    I've discovered that the voltages on the wires when both CH and HW are on depend on the last setting. So if you go HWo->Both->CHo then the voltages match what I posted above for HWo->HWo->CHo and if you go CHo->Both->HWo it goes CHo->CHo->HWo.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • stator
    • By stator 10th Sep 17, 3:39 PM
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    stator
    I've replaced the programmer and the MPV (again) and now my system is working, both HW and CH at the same time.
    Not very money saving I know to replace them both, but I didn't want to risk a faulty one damaging the other. And now I've got a spare valve body and two thermostats if I ever need them.

    Thanks to everyone who helped
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 11th Sep 17, 5:10 PM
    • 603 Posts
    • 340 Thanks
    Alex1983
    Good, got abit confused towards the end but at least it's sorted
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