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  • FIRST POST
    • barnakles
    • By barnakles 1st Sep 17, 11:30 AM
    • 15Posts
    • 12Thanks
    barnakles
    POPLA Appeal Help: Premier Park The Salthouse, Clevedon
    • #1
    • 1st Sep 17, 11:30 AM
    POPLA Appeal Help: Premier Park The Salthouse, Clevedon 1st Sep 17 at 11:30 AM
    Hi MSE'ers, I'm looking for some help formulating my POPLA Appeal for the reason: Failure to Pay for the duration of Stay. Please note my appeal deadline is 5 September so I don't have much time! It's an interesting one, as a sufficient amount was paid to cover the duration albeit in 2 instalments. I have not found another similar case as yet on the boards. (I still have the parking receipts which show the correct reg was entered in both cases). Therefore my main appeal defence point is as follows:

    1. No breach of the terms of contract. £5 was paid on 17 July in two separate instalments, which allows for 5 hours of parking as per the table of charges displayed. Vehicle was recorded as entering at 11:02 and leaving at 15:27 (4 hours 30 minutes in total). I therefore contend that the contravention did not occur and there was no breach of contract.

    I am reading the stickies and other relevant threads to formulate a defence on other grounds. My NTK states "Within 29 days.." so it looks like my other main point will be

    2) The Notice to Keeper is not compliant with The Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012

    but I am yet to find the best template that best illustrates why it is non-compliant. (The 'Issued Date' and the PCN is 24/07/2017):

    This doesn't conform with the wording required in Paragraph 9(2)(f) of the POFA 2012

    9 (1) A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
    (2) The notice must (f) warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with
    the day after that on which the notice is given.

    I am the registered keeper and I have not identified the driver at the time in my communications with the Operator or Landowner . I have also (so far unsuccessfully) appealed directly to The Salthouse. It seems their position is that the second ticket purchased cannot be viewed as a top-up to my previous payment and is a separate ticket with a different expiry time. That is not my experience with pretty much any other ANPR car park I have used.

    Other defence points:
    - No Planning permission for signs and ANPR Camera hardware
    - Lack of standing/authority from landowner
    - Genuine customer (I have a receipt for a purchase from the pub)
    - The charge of £100 plus £1.80 for card payment exceeds the appropriate amount specified in law (Arbitrary extra charges are banned under the POFA 2012)
    - Not a genuine pre estimate of loss - case can be distinguished from Parking Eye v Beavis ??

    Links to winning text or templates would be much appreciated, any advice on the grounds of appeal I should pursue.
    Last edited by barnakles; 01-09-2017 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Typo corrections
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Oct 17, 5:45 PM
    • 51,855 Posts
    • 65,486 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    She even starts her decision:

    The terms and conditions of the site state: “Please pay for your stay. What are the charges? Up to 5 hours…£5.00.
    and you paid £5.

    then she concludes, wrongly:
    As the appellant did not make sufficient payment for the duration of his parking session, he has failed to adhere to the site’s terms and conditions.
    Write that in words of one syllable to the complaints email at POPLA (see their FAQs). Address it 'dear Mr Gallagher' and make it SHORT and SNAPPY.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • barnakles
    • By barnakles 6th Oct 17, 10:46 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    barnakles
    Reponse to POPLA compaint
    Got a response from Sopie Taylor of POPLA complaints today, unfortunately they have simply re-iterated what the assessor siad in the first place:

    Having reviewed the decision made, I can see the assessor states in the decision that:

    “The operator has provided images from the ANPR system, which show that the appellant’s vehicle entered the car park at 11:02 and exited at 15:30 on the day in question, staying for a total of four hours and 28 minutes. A screenshot of its payment system has also been provided, showing that the appellant only made payment to entitle his vehicle to remain at the site for four hours.”

    As such, it is clear the assessor has considered the payment made by yourself, however as the payments covered you to stay for four hours, and not five the assessor has refused your appeal, as you did not make sufficient payment.

    Following my investigation of your complaint, I do not consider that there have been shortfalls in our service and I am satisfied that we dealt with your complaint in line with our processes and procedures.

    I am sorry you feel that your experience of using our service has not been a positive one, however, my letter now concludes our complaints procedure and there will be no further review of your complaint. We will not engage in any further correspondence with you in this matter.
    So much for POPLA being independent. They have completely failed here IMHO. I guess it's too much to hope for anything else seeing as it's paid for by the parking companies. Basically, it seems unless you can get off on a legal technicality, you don't stand a chance.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 6th Oct 17, 11:07 AM
    • 33,605 Posts
    • 17,504 Thanks
    Quentin

    So much for POPLA being independent. They have completely failed here IMHO. I guess it's too much to hope for anything else seeing as it's paid for by the parking companies. Basically, it seems unless you can get off on a legal technicality, you don't stand a chance.
    Originally posted by barnakles
    Of course it didn't help your cause by lying to popla about not being the driver (when you had already admitted you were to the ppc!)


    But a failed popla appeal doesn't mean you end up paying!


    That only happens if they win in court.


    If it gets that far don't lie in your defence!
    • barnakles
    • By barnakles 6th Oct 17, 11:21 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    barnakles
    Thanks for your input Quentin, for the record I didn't actually lie, my partner drove there and I drove back. I bought the ticket and I wanted to associate myself to the appeal so I selected Driver in the operator's appeal web form. I didn't want my wife being pursued, we have a newborn and a toddler so she has enough on her plate.

    I had actually forgotten in the meantime that I selected this on the form - in my naivety never getting one of these tickets before I did not realise the significance. I simply thought that if I pointed straight out to the operator that I had in fact made sufficient payment they would realise the mistake and cancel the ticket straight away. That was back when I thought these parking operators and POPLA would operate reasonably and with common sense. As I said before - lesson learnt, I won't make this mistake again.

    Thanks though, I will leave the POFA compliance part out if gets to a court defence, quite clearly I burnt my bridges there thinking the operator would listen to reason initially.
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