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  • FIRST POST
    • Ahmsbelkz
    • By Ahmsbelkz 1st Sep 17, 1:25 AM
    • 40Posts
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    Ahmsbelkz
    Urgent help needed (bank accounts)
    • #1
    • 1st Sep 17, 1:25 AM
    Urgent help needed (bank accounts) 1st Sep 17 at 1:25 AM
    I would be over the moon if i found a solution to this huge problem i have...so last year october i opened an account with nationwide and i ended up losing my debit card one evening and had not realized this until next morning, once i called them to get it blocked i had got the news that my account had been closed down. Days went on and they told me that it was for fraud and that someone had attempted to deposit £1300 into my account. Even though I had no clue of this happening I agreed and didnt mind that they closed the account until I had realized that I believe they put a blacklist on my name with all UK banks. The bank account was fairly new and I have no criminal activity history anything and in this case i was the victim of fraud and ended up being the fraudster. Nationwide denied that they had banned my name from any other banks or so but ever since this happened I have been too TSB, Lloyds, Santander and they have all opened me basic current accounts and closed them without reason after a week or so. I am highly frustrated and depressed as I have had no bank account for nearly a year and struggle to get paid from work and other things such as bills. What do you think is the cause of this and can anyone give me a solution please...i am lost and have tried everything possible to find out how can i get a normal bank account like a normal person. Thanks
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    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 8th Sep 17, 12:15 PM
    • 2,115 Posts
    • 3,092 Thanks
    EachPenny
    Agreed, but your timescale and the OPs story of losing his card on a night out and the whole scam having been perpetrated and his account already closed by the time he called the bank the following morning are different scenarios.
    Originally posted by d123
    As I said, hypothetical example.

    But the timescales are the same. The account could be blocked (blocked/closed, means the same thing to some people) as soon as the bank's computer spots that money has been paid into the account from a source which is flagged as high risk.

    What you'd expect the bank to do is to ask the customer about the payment and give them an opportunity to explain they were an innocent victim of someone mistakenly paying money into their account. But if there were other unusual activity on the account, for example attempts to withdraw large amounts of cash after the deposit was made, then it would be a bit difficult to prove innocence.

    You might also expect an innocent victim with only one bank account to complain vigorously at the time about having their banking facilities withdrawn, not 'agree' to it. But that obviously depends on the victim as some may not have the knowledge or capability needed to make use of the complaints process.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • d123
    • By d123 8th Sep 17, 12:33 PM
    • 6,574 Posts
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    d123
    As I said, hypothetical example.

    But the timescales are the same. The account could be blocked (blocked/closed, means the same thing to some people) as soon as the bank's computer spots that money has been paid into the account from a source which is flagged as high risk.

    What you'd expect the bank to do is to ask the customer about the payment and give them an opportunity to explain they were an innocent victim of someone mistakenly paying money into their account. But if there were other unusual activity on the account, for example attempts to withdraw large amounts of cash after the deposit was made, then it would be a bit difficult to prove innocence.

    You might also expect an innocent victim with only one bank account to complain vigorously at the time about having their banking facilities withdrawn, not 'agree' to it. But that obviously depends on the victim as some may not have the knowledge or capability needed to make use of the complaints process.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    What bank do you know of that has fraud staff working at night with the authority to close bank accounts within hours of an alleged fraud attempt?
    ====
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 8th Sep 17, 12:45 PM
    • 1,650 Posts
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    Robin9
    I would hope that my bank has automatic systems in place to block the account for unauthorised use.

    The OP may mean Block rather than Close - still a wild story
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 8th Sep 17, 1:01 PM
    • 2,115 Posts
    • 3,092 Thanks
    EachPenny
    What bank do you know of that has fraud staff working at night with the authority to close bank accounts within hours of an alleged fraud attempt?
    Originally posted by d123
    As I said:
    (blocked/closed, means the same thing to some people)
    If you are referring to the OP's case then whilst we are all giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they are an innocent victim, there are key parts of the story which are currently missing/unexplained.

    The most significant of which is how anyone but the most incompetent fraudster would see any way of gaining by paying £1300 into someone's account without the ability to take more than the daily cash withdrawal limit back out (even assuming they had also obtained the PIN for the card).

    Even taking the most optimistic approach that the victim has no overdraft, a £500 daily cash withdrawal limit, and is able to use that full limit either side of midnight at most the fraudster would get back £1000. The alternative is to make purchases (not involving home delivery ) to that value before the card owner realises the card is lost and gets it blocked.

    There has to be an easier and less risky way to launder £1300 than to steal a stranger's debit card.

    The other unexplained point is why any bank would close someone's account because they simply had some money they knew nothing about paid into their account and reported their lost debit card as soon as they realised it was missing.

    People get money wrongly paid into their accounts every day - they don't all have their accounts closed.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Ahmsbelkz
    • By Ahmsbelkz 8th Sep 17, 2:28 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Ahmsbelkz
    Some of you talk like you are experts. There are ways fraudsters do things that you and I may not know. The story is what happened, sounds bizzare but if it wasnt bizzare i wouldnt be on these forums getting a solution. So please if you have no advice to give rather than act as a judge please dont comment.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 8th Sep 17, 3:07 PM
    • 2,115 Posts
    • 3,092 Thanks
    EachPenny
    Some of you talk like you are experts. There are ways fraudsters do things that you and I may not know. The story is what happened, sounds bizzare but if it wasnt bizzare i wouldnt be on these forums getting a solution. So please if you have no advice to give rather than act as a judge please dont comment.
    Originally posted by Ahmsbelkz
    It surprises me that you don't seem even remotely interested in how a fraudster was attempting to use your account. If you want to go down the route suggested by forum members of making complaints and trying to get the marker lifted then you need to understand exactly what happened.

    If it was Nationwide that reported you, as well as closing your account, then they must have felt there was a good reason for their actions (even if it was in error). The marker won't be removed just because you say 'pretty please'. If there were transactions on your account which suggest fraudulent/illegal activity - and nearly 12 months later you are saying it was nothing to do with you - then you will need to have some kind of plausible argument to put forward to counter Nationwide's claims.

    That isn't being 'judge', it is practical advice which you need to take on board.

    Fraudsters do have all kinds of tricks, but there are some aspects of the banking system which are like the laws of physics... as much as you'd like to change them it is impossible. So for example trying to withdraw more money from a cash machine than your daily limit will never work. Making more than about 10 sucessive contactless payments on a debit card won't work. Making a totally out of character purchase for £1300 on a debit card will almost certainly trip further checks. You don't have to be an 'expert' to know any of this, you just need to follow this forum regularly.

    This is an open public forum and people are entitled to speculate and respond to questions on how this fraud might have worked. We all have an interest in this kind of thing - the idea that your bank account could be closed down due to no fault of your own is something we all feel uneasy about. So nobody is trying to be 'judge', we're just trying to figure out how this could have happened - whether you are interested in the answer or not.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • d123
    • By d123 8th Sep 17, 4:25 PM
    • 6,574 Posts
    • 4,216 Thanks
    d123
    I would hope that my bank has automatic systems in place to block the account for unauthorised use.

    The OP may mean Block rather than Close - still a wild story
    Originally posted by Robin9
    As I said:
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    I would suggest the huge majority of people would not superimpose ‘block’ for ‘close’, they might use block for suspend, but it would make no sense to use it instead of close.

    Also, the OP specifically says the account had been closed when they phoned the bank in the morning.
    ====
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 8th Sep 17, 4:40 PM
    • 2,115 Posts
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    EachPenny
    I would suggest the huge majority of people would not superimpose ‘block’ for ‘close’, they might use block for suspend, but it would make no sense to use it instead of close.

    Also, the OP specifically says the account had been closed when they phoned the bank in the morning.
    Originally posted by d123
    With respect to you, and with no offence to the OP intended, the 'huge majority' of people would also scream blue murder if their bank falsely accused them of fraud and closed their account down.

    There are lots of gaps in the information we have about this intriguing event. What exactly happened, when and how remain uncertain. Even the OP - who was personally involved - appears only to have the vaguest of ideas what happened.

    I guess you could turn your question around:
    What bank do you know of that has fraud staff working at night with the authority to close bank accounts within hours of an alleged fraud attempt?
    ...do you know which banks don't have fraud staff working at night with the authority to close accounts? Or fraud staff who start work at 9am?

    It is all a bit academic though. Something happened which resulted in the OP's account being closed.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 8th Sep 17, 4:49 PM
    • 1,650 Posts
    • 1,074 Thanks
    Robin9
    Block/close/suspend - we are never going to know.

    If we take OP's "Close" then there's more to this than we or the OP are being told.
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • Ahmsbelkz
    • By Ahmsbelkz 8th Sep 17, 5:15 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Ahmsbelkz
    UPDATE:

    Nationwide have finally confirmed placing a marker on my name after I went through to the correct department. (SID) They said they are not confident I am innocent but are going to review removing the marker (not guarenteed). They said the best case scenario is we remove the marker but you will never be able to bank with us again. Worst case scenario everything will remain how it is. (In which case i will contact the financial ombudsman.)

    Thanks for the advice and help you guys have allowed to me to pin down the problem and now its a matter of when it gets solved. Fingers crossed
    • wizzywig27
    • By wizzywig27 8th Sep 17, 6:35 PM
    • 975 Posts
    • 688 Thanks
    wizzywig27
    Nationwide do you see as being accountable for potential fraud on your account, and the fact they will never let you bank with them again suggests that they feel strongly enough you were involved.

    Personally, even if they removed the marker I'd be arguing my case, if I was innocent of course. Your problem is you seem vague on details on here, and I understand we are all random strangers, but if you struggle to provide accurate details to the bank they will not budge.

    I don't see this ending happily for you I am afraid
    • Ahmsbelkz
    • By Ahmsbelkz 8th Sep 17, 11:19 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Ahmsbelkz
    Nope im confident it will end good. Because i did nothiny wrong and have seen similar cases which people got cleared. I am innocent and i dont care if i dont bank with nationwide again, as long as i can get a bank account elsewhere and build up my credit score. Nationwide said i wont be able to bank with them again solely because the account was closed for fraud. Not because I did anything.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 9th Sep 17, 9:31 AM
    • 2,115 Posts
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    EachPenny
    Nope im confident it will end good. Because i did nothiny wrong and have seen similar cases which people got cleared. I am innocent and i dont care if i dont bank with nationwide again....
    Originally posted by Ahmsbelkz
    It is really great that you've had such a massive improvement in your positivity since you posted these comments the other day...
    I am severly depressed
    [...]
    I feel like im drowning in a dark hole.
    [...]
    I am depressed and frustrated and feel like I have no meaning anymore.
    Originally posted by Ahmsbelkz
    I am only 20 and feel like my life has ended, i cant even get paid from work, sometimes i feel like i dont want to wake up anymore.
    Originally posted by Ahmsbelkz
    ...hopefully with hindsight you'll feel getting yourself so upset did not make sense, and seeking advice on how to deal with the issue was the best approach.

    For people who come across this thread in the future it is important to realise that having access to banking facilities in the modern world is essential, and something to be protected at all costs. Not protecting your cards and security information can lead to all kinds of problems, not just having a little bit of money taken from your account. It is also important to realise that things are not as simple as asking your bank to remove a Cifas marker and them just doing it. There are long-lasting consequences if you make yourself vulnerable to this kind of crime.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Ahmsbelkz
    • By Ahmsbelkz 10th Sep 17, 5:24 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Ahmsbelkz
    I agree with EachPenny!

    Very true, i was depressed and frustrated because I had no lead to where I was going to pin point my problem but thanks to this thread it has helped me alot. So its just a matter of getting it solved as I know where the problem exactly is.

    It has been a pain and still is, hopefully this teaches a lesson to some of you who are lucky enough to never be in these kind of situations. Always protect yourself and identity.
    • le loup
    • By le loup 10th Sep 17, 8:14 PM
    • 3,573 Posts
    • 3,403 Thanks
    le loup
    What a wonderful ride we have all been taken on - so much fun.
    • Candyapple
    • By Candyapple 11th Sep 17, 10:12 AM
    • 2,272 Posts
    • 1,735 Thanks
    Candyapple
    UPDATE:

    Nationwide have finally confirmed placing a marker on my name after I went through to the correct department. (SID) They said they are not confident I am innocent but are going to review removing the marker (not guarenteed). They said the best case scenario is we remove the marker but you will never be able to bank with us again. Worst case scenario everything will remain how it is. (In which case i will contact the financial ombudsman.)

    Thanks for the advice and help you guys have allowed to me to pin down the problem and now its a matter of when it gets solved. Fingers crossed
    Originally posted by Ahmsbelkz

    Did Nationwide give you a time frame of when they will make a decision? Are they going to send you a letter?

    I have a feeling that the marker will remain and your next battle will be with the FO trying to get them to side with you against a high street bank.

    Personally, if I were in your shoes, at this point knowing that a CIFAS had been registered against me and I was innocent, I would be speaking to a solicitor to get this resolved ASAP. A CIFAS marker is no joke. It remains for 6 years and essentially you won't be able to open a bank account or have any form of credit for the next 6 years, or no car insurance either.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Credit Cards, Loans, Credit Files & Ratings boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com
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