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  • FIRST POST
    • TitledTItan
    • By TitledTItan 31st Aug 17, 3:25 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 16Thanks
    TitledTItan
    Unique situation - Gladstone Final Threat in the Post
    • #1
    • 31st Aug 17, 3:25 PM
    Unique situation - Gladstone Final Threat in the Post 31st Aug 17 at 3:25 PM
    Dear All,

    I've read through a number of cases regarding Gladstone but I think my case is slightly different from the norm so would love to hear what your thoughts are on how I should proceed.

    I received a PCN from a company called PCM (Parking Control Management) this was a result of parking in my allocated numbered residential bay which I've been parking in for over 3 years. the Estate where I live recently changed over parking companies and they provided around a month notice to all residence about this change over occurring.

    I received 2 permits in the post, 1 visitors permit and 1 numbered parking permit to use on my car when parked in my numbered parking spot. I placed this permit on the dash and ordered a permit holder from amazon to fix it to the windscreen and avoid any issues, unfortunately one fine day before I had the chance to fix the permit it had blown over on its back and I received a PCN the next morning.

    I tried to contest this fine explaining the situation but it fell on deaf ears and I was threatened with court and additional fees for delayed payment, the fine was originally for £100, I responded to the original claim as follows.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Dear PCM,

    Please accept this message as an official notification that I WILL NOT be paying the Penalty Charge notice handed to me on the xxx

    As a Resident of xxx (since 2014) I am within my full legal right to park in my allocated and reserved parking spot labelled XX, I accept that your company objective is to issue fines to drivers who are parking at XXX without permission and to make this easier for you, you require that drivers display a permit. In this specific situation my permit was situated on my car dash and through an act of nature (wind) had turned over without me noticing. I have since fixed the permit to the windscreen so this confusion does not repeat itself.

    Please proceed to take any legal action you deem necessary, please also consider that due to contract obligations at my workplace I have been advised I am well within my right to raise claim on any working hours spent settling this matter.

    Any further correspondence requesting payment of this PCN will be treated as personal harassment and used to strengthen my case.

    Thank you
    Kind Regards
    -----------------------------------------

    A similarly structured message has worked before with other parking issues, they usually just stop all correspondence and forget about the claim.

    Unfortunately A week ago I received my final reminder from Gladstone Solicitors representing PCM and they have itimised the various charges that will be added to the claim in court which now totals up to roughly £320. I know it will never get to me having to pay that but the money isn't the issue here to be honest. I don't mind paying when I am in the wrong I just don't want to pay 1 penny to these Extortionists, I don't want them to win the case either.

    Yes I am a resident,
    Yes that was an allocated parking spot so nobody else is allowed to park there anyway.
    They've continued to send me threats of legal action moving from PCM, to Debt collectors and now to Gladstone so I doubt Gladstone will even know the details of this case

    I must reiterate here this is a purely residential zone so no pay & dsplay is in affect on the entire premises, its just that its accessible to the public so a parking control company prevents trespassers form taking up the resident bays.

    They (PCM) actually sent me a photo (which I've kept as evidence) of my windscreen with my parking permit turned over on the dashboard.

    The signage clearly states that all permits must be clearly displayed on the dashboard at all times when parked at the estate, I have not responded to Gladstone within the 7 day deadline as I actually don't mind going to court.

    Another concern is I might not be around for much longer as I'm moving to Spain with our new baby to be closer to my wife's family in about 3 weeks time, so I expect my court hearing will be set to after I have emigrated from the UK, I'll obviously still have active accounts in the UK so I'm just wondering what the best case and worst case scenario will be here considering I cant attend the court date and what can I do to protect myself except pay these ar**holes money. I don't mind spending £400 on lawyers to represent me in court instead but I've read that's not an option in small claims either.

    Please help me fight this and hopefully get this thrown out before it even reaches the court date, I haven't received anything from the courts yet obviously but I have a feeling its only a matter of time as Gladstone have that reputation.
    Last edited by TitledTItan; 01-09-2017 at 8:36 AM.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Aug 17, 3:32 PM
    • 51,502 Posts
    • 65,112 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 31st Aug 17, 3:32 PM
    • #2
    • 31st Aug 17, 3:32 PM
    I have not responded to Gladstone within the 7 day deadline as I actually don't mind going to court.
    Good....but now is the time to respond urgently!

    Another concern is I might not be around for much longer as I'm moving to Spain with our new baby to be closer to my wife's family in about 3 weeks time, so I expect my court hearing will be set to after I have emigrated from the UK,
    Even better, but that's a reason why you MUST respond now and tell them you have just emigrated (PAST TENSE) and your permanent address for service is:

    xxxx
    xxxx
    Spain


    I don't mind spending £400 on lawyers to represent me in court instead
    Nope, no point, and you need to make it clear you are permanently domiciled in Spain, which puts you outside of the jurisdiction of the English courts and means Gladstones cannot use MCOL (for their online court robo-claims).

    YOU MUST email this to them today, and post it too. Keep proof of the email and the posted letter.

    Give the Spanish address and say you have emigrated and are just in the UK briefly (show proof of the new address somehow, wife's name and family address, even a utility bill in that surname from Spain to show them you haven't made it up).

    MUST BE TODAY, YOU MUST STOP THEM USING MCOL TO YOUR UK ADDRESS.

    And then warn whoever is at home at that address, to email you if anything else arrives, urgently.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 31-08-2017 at 3:34 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • TitledTItan
    • By TitledTItan 31st Aug 17, 3:37 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    TitledTItan
    • #3
    • 31st Aug 17, 3:37 PM
    • #3
    • 31st Aug 17, 3:37 PM
    Good....but now is the time to respond urgently!



    Even better, but that's a reason why you MUST respond now and tell them you have just emigrated (PAST TENSE) and your permanent address for service is:

    xxxx
    xxxx
    Spain



    Nope, no point, and you need to make it clear you are permanently domiciled in Spain, which puts you outside of the jurisdiction of the English courts and means Gladstones cannot use MCOL (for their online court robo-claims).

    YOU MUST email this to them today, and post it too. Keep proof of the email and the posted letter.

    Give the Spanish address and say you have emigrated and are just in the UK briefly (show proof of the new address somehow, wife's name and family address, even a utility bill in that surname from Spain to show them you haven't made it up).

    MUST BE TODAY, YOU MUST STOP THEM USING MCOL TO YOUR UK ADDRESS.

    And then warn whoever is at home at that address, to email you if anything else arrives, urgently.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thank you Coupon-mad, I will email Gladstone today, unfortunately as I moved to Spain trying to get any proof that I have moved there will be difficult.

    would it suffice to show that I have a 1 way fairy ticket booked from Portsmouth to Santander, I can give them the address where we will be staying but it will take a few weeks at least before I can get any bills to my name.

    What do you suggest?
    Last edited by TitledTItan; 01-09-2017 at 1:53 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Aug 17, 3:57 PM
    • 51,502 Posts
    • 65,112 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 31st Aug 17, 3:57 PM
    • #4
    • 31st Aug 17, 3:57 PM
    would it suffice to show that I have a 1 way fairy ticket booked from Portsmouth to Santander,
    A fairy ticket might not be believed.

    A ferry ticket, on the other hand...!

    No, give them the permanent address, the one her family live at. I was talking about THEIR utility bill as proof, to show your wife (of the same name) and yourself, are domiciled there from September.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • TitledTItan
    • By TitledTItan 31st Aug 17, 4:05 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    TitledTItan
    • #5
    • 31st Aug 17, 4:05 PM
    • #5
    • 31st Aug 17, 4:05 PM
    A ferry ticket, on the other hand...
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Oh Dam!!! been washing dishes too long!!!! lol

    So in all seriousness, my note will be as follows:
    ---------------------------------
    Dear Gladstone

    Claim Number:
    Car Registration:
    I'm writing to inform you that I no longer reside in the UK, I have moved to Spain several months ago and have come back to the UK for a few days to collect mail and move the rest of my assets over to Spain.

    My new Address is as follows
    xxxxx
    xxxxx
    xxxxx
    Spain

    Please feel free to forward all future correspondence to my new address.
    I have attached proof of my Ferry ticket back to Spain on the 29th September and proof of new address in the form of an electric bill under my wifes name.

    Thank you for your understanding

    Kind Regards
    ---------------------

    How does that sound?
    • TitledTItan
    • By TitledTItan 31st Aug 17, 4:23 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    TitledTItan
    • #6
    • 31st Aug 17, 4:23 PM
    • #6
    • 31st Aug 17, 4:23 PM
    MUST BE TODAY, YOU MUST STOP THEM USING MCOL TO YOUR UK ADDRESS.

    And then warn whoever is at home at that address, to email you if anything else arrives, urgently.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    okay, so it sounds like if its too late and they've already used MCOL to my UK address I'm basically f*cked? could I inform the court I've moved when I get the claim? I mean I'm emailing Gladstone today and posting the letter either way, I'm just wandering what happens if the process is already in motion? Thanks again for your help man, I really really appreciate it! and if anyone else could chip in too, the more info the better
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Aug 17, 4:32 PM
    • 51,502 Posts
    • 65,112 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 31st Aug 17, 4:32 PM
    • #7
    • 31st Aug 17, 4:32 PM
    No they haven't. MCOL is starting a claim. You said this was a letter. So you need to act now.

    I am a mam, not a man!

    Dear Gladstones

    Claim PCN ref Number:
    Car Registration:

    I'm writing to inform you that I no longer reside in the UK, I have moved to Spain several months ago and have come back to the UK for a few days to collect mail and move the rest of my assets over to Spain.

    My new Address is as follows
    xxxxx
    xxxxx
    xxxxx
    Spain

    Please feel free to forward You MUST send all future correspondence to my new address. For the avoidance of doubt, this is my correct address for service, but as Gladstones will be aware, I am outside of the jurisdiction of the English Courts and you cannot use MCOL.

    You must also inform your clients to update their data to my permanent address. For the avoidance of doubt, I do not live in the UK and there are no plans to return. Should any more letters or contact be sent by you or your clients to the old address, it will be harassment of the family now living there, and I will report you and your clients to the Information Commissioner, for failure to keep up to date address data, in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998.

    I trust I have made my position clear.


    I have attached proof of my Ferry ticket back to Spain after this brief UK visit ends; I return to Spain on the 29th September and proof of my new permanent domiciled address in the form of an electric bill under my wife's name.

    Kindly cease all harassment forthwith, and remove me from your robo-claim list.

    Thank you for your understanding

    Kind Regards
    ---------------------
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 31-08-2017 at 4:45 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • TitledTItan
    • By TitledTItan 31st Aug 17, 4:41 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    TitledTItan
    • #8
    • 31st Aug 17, 4:41 PM
    • #8
    • 31st Aug 17, 4:41 PM
    No they haven't. MCOL is starting a claim. You said this was a letter. So you need to act now.

    I am a mam, not a man!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Oh oooops!! sorry mam!
    Yeah they only sent a letter, but what I meant was since the 7 day grace period they gave me was over a couple days ago I can only assume that the MCOL process of starting a claim is imminent, certainly would take a couple days before anything reaches my post box so what happens if I'm not in time with the response?

    Would I have just "been gladstoned!!!!" lol, I'm probably not even using that right.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Aug 17, 4:43 PM
    • 51,502 Posts
    • 65,112 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 31st Aug 17, 4:43 PM
    • #9
    • 31st Aug 17, 4:43 PM
    See above, you need to say more, and not as politely! You have no claim number yet, either.

    Would I have just "been gladstoned!!!!" lol, I'm probably not even using that right.
    You are using it right, but could just tick the box to 'contest jurisdiction' to end the claim. But you don't want to risk missing that chance, to strike hard now to avoid any court claim being in play.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 31st Aug 17, 5:13 PM
    • 10,201 Posts
    • 9,345 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    LEASE LEASE LEASE

    What does it say in your LEASE re parking and tickets? The LEASE has primacy and we have sufficient "precedents" on here where this has been upheld by courts.

    However, as Gladstones will be paid win or lose, don't expect them to back down yet,

    Come back with the answer to the above.
    • TitledTItan
    • By TitledTItan 31st Aug 17, 10:58 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    TitledTItan
    I could seriously kiss you right now! but my wife has a thing about me kissing strangers so I wont! the wording you provided looks great!

    See above, you need to say more, and not as politely! You have no claim number yet, either.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Yes sorry I meant PCN Number, no claim number yet.

    Ok I've sent the email through with a copy of an electric bill on my mother in-law's name and a copy of the ferry ticket, I used the same wording you offered above so thank you for that, hopefully they realise that this isn't going anywhere and just drop it, else I'll wait for the claims court letter in the post.

    Will update this thread either way.
    • TitledTItan
    • By TitledTItan 31st Aug 17, 11:00 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    TitledTItan
    LEASE LEASE LEASE

    What does it say in your LEASE re parking and tickets? The LEASE has primacy and we have sufficient "precedents" on here where this has been upheld by courts.

    However, as Gladstones will be paid win or lose, don't expect them to back down yet,

    Come back with the answer to the above.
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    So as far as I'm aware the original lease signed by my landlord actually says nothing about the parking allocations, Until I received the fine the landlord was under the impression that the allocated space belonged to him and him alone, so he is willing to stand in court with his lease and help me fight this, sad thing really is that I wont be here to watch Gladstone fail! and I'd hate for them to officially be allowed to claim money from me through the courts becuase I'm not able to make the hearing.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Aug 17, 11:25 PM
    • 51,502 Posts
    • 65,112 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Originally Posted by TitledTItan
    I could seriously kiss you right now! but my wife has a thing about me kissing strangers so I wont!
    My husband might have something to say as well!



    So as far as I'm aware the original lease signed by my landlord actually says nothing about the parking allocations, Until I received the fine the landlord was under the impression that the allocated space belonged to him and him alone, so he is willing to stand in court with his lease and help me fight this, sad thing really is that I wont be here to watch Gladstone fail! and I'd hate for them to officially be allowed to claim money from me through the courts becuase I'm not able to make the hearing.
    Originally posted by TitledTItan
    The landlord needs to step in and protect the next victim living there...

    If he owns the space then he is the 'landholder' and he needs to act to stop the predatory PPC from trespassing in his space. No-one needs a permit if landlord owns it, and he needs to contact the MA and opt out so cars in his space remain untouched by the scumbags.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 31st Aug 17, 11:39 PM
    • 4,469 Posts
    • 2,791 Thanks
    KeithP
    It might be a good idea to edit your original post to remove the precise time of the PCN issue, as this helps identify you to the PCC.
    .
    • TitledTItan
    • By TitledTItan 1st Sep 17, 8:45 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    TitledTItan
    It might be a good idea to edit your original post to remove the precise time of the PCN issue, as this helps identify you to the PCC.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Thanks, that's very helpful, I've edited the post.
    • TitledTItan
    • By TitledTItan 1st Sep 17, 8:50 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    TitledTItan
    The landlord needs to step in and protect the next victim living there...

    If he owns the space then he is the 'landholder' and he needs to act to stop the predatory PPC from trespassing in his space. No-one needs a permit if landlord owns it, and he needs to contact the MA and opt out so cars in his space remain untouched by the scumbags.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Landlord is being very helpful, I've kept him updated on the case, he has a meeting with the estates agencies to discuss how they are able to change the rules to a parking space he owns, its been holiday season so been hard to get in touch with the people you need to sort this out. but seems like its coming to an end and pretty soon there's gonna be some sh*t going down, I've spoken to neighbors too who do not want this parking company and have asked them to contact their landlords so we can get a number of landlords together and have a much bigger impact.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 1st Sep 17, 8:55 AM
    • 15,495 Posts
    • 24,205 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I've spoken to neighbors too who do not want this parking company and have asked them to contact their landlords so we can get a number of landlords together and have a much bigger impact.
    Great community response. Do let us know how it pans out. There are so many residential areas being plundered by PPCs and any initiative which results in a positive outcome will be an excellent reference point to show others what can be achieved in similar circumstances.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 1st Sep 17, 10:01 AM
    • 613 Posts
    • 1,122 Thanks
    safarmuk
    Landlord is being very helpful, I've kept him updated on the case, he has a meeting with the estates agencies to discuss how they are able to change the rules to a parking space he owns, its been holiday season so been hard to get in touch with the people you need to sort this out. but seems like its coming to an end and pretty soon there's gonna be some sh*t going down, I've spoken to neighbors too who do not want this parking company and have asked them to contact their landlords so we can get a number of landlords together and have a much bigger impact.
    The key here is to get the lease as has been said before and determine what the status of the allocated bays are ... for example are they "demised land", are they marked clearly in the plans along with the dwelling they are linked to (which will be demised), what "demised rights" are granted (e.g. "exclusive use of") and what, if any, covenants there are for the MA to change things (although whatever there is it is virtually impossible that they can use them to remove "demised land" or change "demised rights").

    Once you have the above answers you are doing the right thing in getting tenants and landlords together and confronting the MA. As a group you will have much more chance of being successful than as a bunch of individuals. I know you are leaving but I would encourage your neighbours to set up a Facebook group (e.g. "Residents of XYZ") to allow better communication amongst residents on the estate so you can all get to hear of others issues (you all probably had many in common you didn't know about).
    • TitledTItan
    • By TitledTItan 1st Sep 17, 10:14 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    TitledTItan
    The key here is to get the lease as has been said before and determine what the status of the allocated bays are ... for example are they "demised land", are they marked clearly in the plans along with the dwelling they are linked to (which will be demised), what "demised rights" are granted (e.g. "exclusive use of") and what, if any, covenants there are for the MA to change things (although whatever there is it is virtually impossible that they can use them to remove "demised land" or change "demised rights").

    Once you have the above answers you are doing the right thing in getting tenants and landlords together and confronting the MA. As a group you will have much more chance of being successful than as a bunch of individuals. I know you are leaving but I would encourage your neighbours to set up a Facebook group (e.g. "Residents of XYZ") to allow better communication amongst residents on the estate so you can all get to hear of others issues (you all probably had many in common you didn't know about).
    Originally posted by safarmuk
    Another excellent idea, I'll set up a facebook group this weekend and print a number of letters I can post to all my neighbors describing the new facebook group and subjects discussed, I'm 100% sure we'll get most of the community to join as like you said there have been a number of issues with the MA, so perhaps it may be time for a new MA.
    • TitledTItan
    • By TitledTItan 6th Sep 17, 12:31 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    TitledTItan
    Hey guys, as promised I'm just providing an update on the issue, I sent the email out to Gladstones last Friday as well as a tracked written letter with the same wording, So far they haven't even bothered to respond to my email which I've expected them to.

    I've asked the landlord to keep an eye on the post that comes in for the coming couple months, I have this feeling that its not over yet and that these guys are gonna try something stupid, again from what I've read they have this reputation of not caring whether they lose or look bad in the court room.

    Anyway, clearing up the last bits before I move go to Spain with the family, started a facebook group and people have been trickling in, managed to start a conversation about the parking issue, planning to hand over the group to one of the residents that I was close to once its up and running at full force, I'm even thinking of adding a whatsapp group there to discuss things more time critical.

    I don't think this Parking Company will survive the year IMHO, there's alot of people not happy with them who have already paid their fines without knowing that they could have fought it in court, a few that just didn't to deal with the problems, that's really what keeps these parking companies afloat.

    Will update once again next week, or sooner if I have any real info to share.
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