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  • FIRST POST
    • hybernia
    • By hybernia 29th Aug 17, 6:54 PM
    • 231Posts
    • 194Thanks
    hybernia
    MSE Collective switch to EDF. A shambles. Advice needed.
    • #1
    • 29th Aug 17, 6:54 PM
    MSE Collective switch to EDF. A shambles. Advice needed. 29th Aug 17 at 6:54 PM
    Advice appreciated from those who know more about these things than I do. Several questions arise as a result of my first week -- my FIRST week -- of dealing with EDF. And I'm not even a customer yet . . .

    1. Today is August 29th.

    2. On August 22nd, I decided to movefrom my existing, but soon-to-be-defunct, dual fuel British Gas MSE Collective tariff to EDF's dual fuel Blue + Price Protected October 2018 tariff. The change of supplier was undertaken via Top Cashback, with whom EDF has arranged a £60 cashback. The transaction occurred at 5.24pm.

    3. On August 23rd, I received a welcome email from EDF confirming its pleasure to supply gas and electricity to my home under the terms of the Blue + Price Protected tariff. It furnished the projected annual cost of that, based on consumption figures I had earlier provided. It specified the £amount of the monthly Direct Debit which EDF would require in exchange for providing electricity and gas to my address.

    4. On August 24th, EDF invited me to register for an online account. We were away, dealing with the terminal illness of a close family member, so it wasn't possible for me to open that account until our return next day.

    5. On August 25th, British Gas emailed to say it had updated my Direct Debit, "as asked". The new DD would commence on September 2nd next for the supply of electricity. I myself had not asked British Gas to do anything of the kind.

    6. On August 26th, I went into my new EDF online account where I was invited to "watch the progress of your switch". This opening screen of the online account said "registration is in progress" and "the expected start date of your gas contract is August 22nd 2017", that is, four days earlier.

    7. Also on August 26th, I found in the inbox of my new online account a letter from EDF. It was dated August 23rd. It said: "Thanks for choosing EDF Energy -- it's great to have you on board!"It continued:

    "We've got everything we need so far to complete your switch to us, however, please call Customer Services on the number above if any of your details are incorrect. Let's confirm what you've signed up for: Gas. Budget Direct Debit (Monthly)."

    8. On August 27th I had a brief opportunity to check more deeply into the EDF paperwork. The sad circumstances in which my family has found itself have meant I have enough to deal with right now without riding herd on a routine energy switch.

    9. That same day though, August 27th, it was becoming clear to me that something wasn't quite right with this switch -- but EDF were not telling me about it. That's because when I found, in my inbox, "Your Letter of Contract", the document referred to the supply of gas to my home, citing the gas meter point number and the gas meter type . . . but instead of citing the electricity meter point number and electricity meter type, EDF had merely written N/A.

    10. August 28th. Due to family circumstance, it wasn't possible to devote any time to energy switching.

    11. August 29th, today. Despite not one word from EDF about any problems, and no alteration of its assurance that "we've got everything we need so far to complete the switch to us", it has now emerged that EDF (a) doesn't have everything it needs and (b) is not going to complete the switch.

    In Live Chat with an EDF customer services adviser today, I asked why information relating to my electricity supply is "non applicable" and why the contract issued to me refers to the supply of gas only?

    The CSA asked for my electricity meter number. Eventually, he came back to say that the "nationally registered" address for the electricity meter is different to that of the gas meter.

    He provided me with those details. They refer to a provisional address dreamt up by the builder of our townhouse home, back in late 2005. The builder wanted to incorporate the idiotically pseudy phrase "The Mews" into the address. The local authority refused. My address is, therefore, not (number) The Mews, street address, city and postcode, but just the number, street address, city and postcode.

    The two addresses are different only in so far as the words "The Mews" appear in one but not the other. Otherwise, they are recognisably the same.

    I explained to the representative that we have lived here since the property was built and have undertaken several switches during those 12 years. Be it NPower, Scottish Power, British Gas, or Sainsbury's (aka British Gas) there has never been a problem with switching, with supply, or with billing.

    This is the actual CSA written response, compiled from sequential answers to my questions:

    EDF representative: "As the electricity meter address has been updated incorrectly in the national database for electricity, and as British Gas Trading is the electricity supplier, please contact them to correct the electricity address in the national database.

    "Once you apply for a change of supply online, the details get updated, then we send the request to the old supplier as per the address mentioned on the details, then once we receive confirmation from them, only after that can the change of supply process take place.

    "As the correct address is not updated in the national database, so we were unable to send any change of supply request to any of the suppliers. It might have happened that they (British Gas) manually updated the correct address in their personal database but not in the national database. So as they being the existing supplier, it is only they who are eligible to get the national database correctly updated.

    "So you need to contact British Gas to get the correct details, updated."

    It should be noted that the CS made non response to my questions: why has EDF not flagged up this meter address problem? Why has EDF arbitrarily junked an existing contract and substituted it with a new one without my knowledge or consent? Why has EDF told British Gas it is only taking on the gas supply when EDF should surely have stopped the switch process immediately and alerted me to difficulties in dual fuel transfer?

    I have raised a support ticket with British Gas about both the mysterious "electricity Direct Debit" that was asked for, and the updating of meter address information, seeing as how EDF's representative today says they can't ask British Gas because I am the customer and I must do it myself.

    British Gas has so far confirmed only that "a request was made" to "update" the DirectDebit payment of my electricity supply. It has, as yet, said nothing further but will be back in touch within 3 working days.

    My questions, then.

    (1) Whilst I appreciate that meter addresses should be accurate, can anyone explain to me why, these past 12 years, every supplier we've ever had has been quite content to use the consumption figures measured by the meters at our address . . . but EDF says: it cannot?

    (2) Is EDF correct in now telling me -- though only on my querying -- that it cannot ask British Gas to update the nationally registered address, but that only I, as the British Gas customer, can ask British Gas to do that?

    (3) Does EDF's behaviour this past week seem in any way acceptable: confirming to me a dual fuel tariff and monthly DD payment but then quietly scrapping the agreed contract the instant it encountered what it says is "an address problem" but without bothering to alert me to the problem; telling British Gas it's going to take the gas supply but leaving the electricity supply behind, so that BG has to recalculate the DD payment?

    And finally:

    (4) Is there anything to stop me contacting the 'national database' (whatever and wherever that is) to sort out this meter address business myself?

    As for recommending anyone to go within a country mile of EDF: on the basis of my experience so far, these past 7 days: no. Don't ask.

    PS: Seems I've just lost the promised £60 cashback because that only applies to the dual fuel contract which EDF has unilaterally replaced with a single fuel one. Except, no. I'm not going to give that up easily. . .
Page 1
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 29th Aug 17, 7:36 PM
    • 4,546 Posts
    • 2,714 Thanks
    Hengus
    • #2
    • 29th Aug 17, 7:36 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Aug 17, 7:36 PM
    Hi - you are still within your ‘cooling off’ period so you can cancel your gas switch. If you decide to do this, then do it in writing. This strategy is not without risk as the transfer will already be going forward and rolling it back may take time. As far as updating the meter database is concerned, this can only be actioned by your existing supplier.

    The amount of detail that you have manage to collate in 7 days from applying to switch is remarkable. Most suppliers just send a couple of e-mails with the contract and Direct Debit details and then nothing until 5 days before your switch when they ask for a meter reading.

    I suspect that EDF has done nothing wrong. Suppliers have to avoid what are termed ‘erroneous transfers of supply’. It would seem that their computer has picked up on the discrepancy between the address that you have provided and what is held on the database for your electricity meter. I am not sure that they can be blamed for being cautious, and given that it is only 6 days since you applied to switch it is possible that CS hadn’t latched on to the issue. Computers tend to do their own thing once a transfer process has been initiated.

    If you are still determined to go for a dual fuel deal, then the database really does need updating but I appreciate that the clock is ticking on your present contract. If you are happy to go for separate suppliers, then you could approach another supplier for your electricity making sure that you use the address held on the meter file. Once your electricity has transferred across, you could then ask your new supplier to update the address on the database to avoid problems in the future.

    I am sorry that you are having to deal with all this at such a stressful time.
    • hybernia
    • By hybernia 29th Aug 17, 8:25 PM
    • 231 Posts
    • 194 Thanks
    hybernia
    • #3
    • 29th Aug 17, 8:25 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Aug 17, 8:25 PM
    Thanks, Hengus, as ever for your help. It is appreciated.

    I absolutely accept your point about the obligation on any supplier not to proceed with something if it could be deemed to be erroneous.

    But I'm surprised I have to find that out from you. Instead of learning of this from EDF.

    If an incorrect meter address appears on the national database, and the only way it can be corrected is by the existing supplier, then EDF should have volunteered that information immediately. Consumers are not psychic. There is no possible way I could've known (a) of the problem or (b) that I, as customer, must ask British Gas, as supplier, to sort it out before any other supplier can take on the responsibility of providing my home with electricity.

    EDF has gone ahead and stripped out the gas supply component from my existing British Gas MSE tariff; revised a dual fuel contract without prior warning or explanation; and assured me that "all is well" (when it is not) and that it has all the information it needs for a successful switch (when it doesn't.)

    As ever with energy companies, the test of a good one is not how they perform when all is well, but how they perform when it isn't.

    I am not blaming EDF for the hitherto unsuspected existence of a meter address anomaly. I do blame it though for leaving it to me, as customer, to discover that problem for myself when it, as supplier, is fully aware of it. If this is EDF's idea of looking after its customers, then I'd prefer not to be one.

    I am, however, going to have to leave things to run their course. I dare not risk cancelling this switch and finding another supplier whilst the meter address problem remains corrected. I shall just have to wait to hear back from British Gas as to how soon it is going to get the national database amended. . .
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 29th Aug 17, 9:16 PM
    • 4,546 Posts
    • 2,714 Thanks
    Hengus
    • #4
    • 29th Aug 17, 9:16 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Aug 17, 9:16 PM
    I can see where you are coming from but I obviously cannot comment on what should happen within EDF when problems like this arise. Logic dictates that you should have been informed, and they failed to exercise what is basic customer care. I would raise a written complaint making the point that you have switched many times without this particular issue coming to the fore. You feel that EDF failed in its duty of customer care by failing to notify you that there was a problem with this transfer. As the gaining supplier, they are required to manage all aspects of a switch under the terms of their Supply Licence. In your complaint state that you accept that your existing supplier has to update the database, but you request that EDF then accepts the transfer of electricity on the same tariff that you signed up to, with cash back. They may say ‘no’ but there is no harm in asking.
    • tahrey
    • By tahrey 30th Aug 17, 2:03 AM
    • 120 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    tahrey
    • #5
    • 30th Aug 17, 2:03 AM
    • #5
    • 30th Aug 17, 2:03 AM
    My tuppen'orth would be that... it would take a very, *very* attractive offer to get me to go back to EDF after the protracted saga of hopelessly incompetent cocking-about and general customer disservices indifference I suffered whilst buying my gas and electric from them, on a 2-year fix a couple years ago. Your litany of profound corporate idiocy sounds far too familiar.

    Still not sure I get everything I was owed back from them, or indeed how they were able to make such a comprehensive farce out of the very simple job of turning numbers on a meter, per-unit rates and standing charges into money owed to them by way of multiplying one by the other and adding the third. Or setting the direct debit by adding up a year's worth and dividing by 12. Or adjusting a single number in a database to correct a very glaring error. Probably should have trusted my gut at the point where they took the better part of three months to get my gas switched over even though I'm in a Birmingham suburb and in no way on an IGT and skipped out, accepting the exit fee, but I was younger and more naive.

    So on and so forth. Bunch of clowns, on the whole. The fact that they're behind Hinckley Point power station makes me very nervous, and I'm not at all surprised that it's run over time and hugely over budget.

    Therefore if they're also messing you around to the point you feel like cancelling, do so immediately, get out, go elsewhere. Like a lot of the office-over-a-shop chancers that manage to get themselves right at the top of the cheap tariff charts by overpromising and then proceed to massively under-deliver, the hassle (and potential wreckage visited on your bank balance, not to mention maybe overdraft and credit rating when they adjust the direct debits seemingly at random and take crazy catch-up payments without any notice) is simply not worth the small saving vs a much more reliable and respectful 2nd, 3rd... 7th place supplier.

    I'm taking a chance on moving away from E.On at the moment, having ended up on their pricey variable rate after a previous fix ended, though it's a very uncertain shift given that the annual saving vs their current 1-year fix offering will only be about £24, and other than a couple of funny hiccups with registering meter reads the first time I submitted them (sending two of them a few days apart works fine), I haven't had any reason to fault their service at all. So if I have any problems with shifting this time, I'll have no qualms with cancelling and just changing tariff instead. Even their *estimates* in the absence of properly registered readings come in remarkably close to reality (meaning they're doing some heavyweight data modelling, not just primary school level sums, and getting it right), vs the utterly wild EDF ones.

    It's really odd, both french companies (I think?), both "big sixers", both rather in love with orange, both start with E... but the difference in service and reliability is like night and day. Maybe because one of them isn't wasting time playing with a squashy rubber dancing toy?

    Anyway, long story short, kick EDF to the kerb, pick someone else. They didn't even come close to offering the best deal when I did my own comparisons, anyway, and I seem to be pretty average, so if your pattern isn't super weird you might find they're no longer in the running on the price front either. There are several other "top pick" suppliers on the list that were taking the fight to E.On in my results, so it's not like you'll have to rough it with a fly-by-night.
    Last edited by tahrey; 30-08-2017 at 2:07 AM.
    • Frozen_up_north
    • By Frozen_up_north 30th Aug 17, 2:35 PM
    • 1,270 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    Frozen_up_north
    • #6
    • 30th Aug 17, 2:35 PM
    • #6
    • 30th Aug 17, 2:35 PM
    I have to agree that EDF are a bunch of clowns. I am in the process of switching from Scottish Power to them on 1st Sept. In no particular order these are the issues so far:

    Nothing via post, no sign of any messages in my account log-on.

    No indication of when the c/o takes place, except via the "chat" messages.

    The progress indicator suggested that a meter reading was now required, there isn't anywhere to enter a meter reading, tried the 0800 meter line which said the account wasn't set up... gave details via the "chat" message system.

    The iPhone app freezes when opening if you choose to stay logged in from last session, only fix is to delete the app and download again (as suggested by EDF via "chat").

    All told, the lousiest switch I've come across and this is the fourth one I've done 😡
    • tahrey
    • By tahrey 30th Aug 17, 7:14 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    tahrey
    • #7
    • 30th Aug 17, 7:14 PM
    • #7
    • 30th Aug 17, 7:14 PM
    You'd better steel yourself for the service not getting any better once you're actually signed up, then :/

    I mean, let's collectively cross our fingers and hope they've actually got massively better since I last crossed swords with them, and this is just an end-of-summer blip caused by half their staff being off taking kids on holiday, and the other half nursing massive hangovers.

    But somehow I doubt it...

    BTW, be interesting - but not "nice" - to see if either of you, or others who have taken part in the mass switch, run into what became for me the primary problem - a glaring inability to figure out that a roughly £1000pa bill (I had a rather inefficient heating system at the time) should be direct-debited at about £83 a month, not somewhere between £50 and 60 (...leading to a fairly large debt building up, then being recouped, with interest but without any warning, at an entirely random point later on).

    I don't know whether it was a deliberate thing, or fundamental mathematical incompetence, but I gave up on trying to get it fixed over the phone or live-chat. The final straw was when I changed it using the online self-service, once that option became available, only for them to change it back a few weeks later, again without any notice. Attempts to correct it online after that met with the same result as trying to submit meter readings - the system simply acted as if I hadn't done anything, refreshing the page but ignoring the submitted corrections. Calling up didn't work - at a rough guess, the operator-facing part of my account *should* have ended up with at least half a dozen "double check the DD amount, make sure it's over £80, if so leave it alone, if not then fix it" type notes on there, and someone in IT should have been prodded into investigating WTF was going on, but there's no compelling evidence that any note was actually entered by an operator at any point or they bothered informing any other member of staff of the problem.

    Even after I managed to convince one of them to open me an entirely new account on the same tariff with the same end date, transfer my meter codes and billing details into it, and to close the old one, the problem somehow persisted, so who knows how many others experienced the same thing? Or indeed, how many got the opposite, with the monthly charge being estimated clearly too HIGH, and EDF quietly hanging onto the accrued credit without releasing it unless badgered relentlessly? Paperless billing would make such finagling very easy to get away with, after all, and it's one of the reasons where I've staunchly resisted it for every major utility (energy, water, banks, phone etc) where the option was retained instead of it being mandatory. A little extra per year plus some additional space in the filing cabinet is well worth having a much harder to ignore quarterly rundown come through the door of a morning, where you can rip it open as the kettle boils and cast your eyes over it for any surprises during breakfast. Instead of it being just one more of a myriad emails flying through your inbox and possibly ending up, unread, in the spam filter, if they even bother emailing you at all rather than expecting you to schedule the time to regularly log on to your account, which somehow often takes far longer than opening a letter and skimming the pages within.

    So yeah, if you notice this happening, run, don't walk, towards the door marked "change supplier", unless you've the time, patience and vigilance to deal with it, and to send additional payments (...which may end up in the void as well?) to prevent the debt buildup. If you're facing an exit fee it might well be worth paying it to avoid another 9+ months of BS from them, unless you can find a good legal reason for refusing to pay it (breach of contract, non delivery of service, failure to meet standards, something like that). Massive loss of customer numbers might end up being the only language they understand, and a bit of a jolt to a company that seems to be far too accustomed to having been the sole supplier to a strongly socialist country (and thus able to get away with all kinds of shenanigans) for quite a long time.
    Last edited by tahrey; 30-08-2017 at 7:34 PM. Reason: blah
    • mammoth200
    • By mammoth200 1st Sep 17, 8:54 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mammoth200
    • #8
    • 1st Sep 17, 8:54 AM
    • #8
    • 1st Sep 17, 8:54 AM
    Believe me, the service does not get any better.

    I've had nothing but stupid little problems with EDF ever since I switched over to them in Oct '16.

    I started having issues with EDF almost immediately, their app would only tell me about the gas being switched over, and said nothing about the electric. Thankfully this resolved itself once the switch had taken place as I had to submit the meter readings for both meters.

    After 2 months they amended my direct debit (2 winter months I might add) as the projected energy use based on my current usage, would be more. Rather than actually tell me they were increasing the direct debit by £20+ this was a footnote on my bill, so I had to discover this for myself. I contacted them and tried to explain that as soon as the warmer weather arrives, we won't be using anywhere near as much energy, and the bill looks artificially inflated due to the weather, but they would not adjust the direct debit. Fair enough, but now my account is in credit by the £100's.

    I recently requested a monthly bill. As as it currently stands they take a direct debit every month, but since actually switching to them last year, I have only received 2 bills. I considered that the bills might be quarterly, but by that logic I should have 3 bills by now. I can only assume that there is no real rhyme or reason to their billing cycle.

    When getting in touch with their customer services, I was told that if I want a monthly bill, I will need to submit a monthly meter reading. I don't really have an issue with this, and requested a monthly meter reading reminder from them as I use those reminders as a cue to read the meter (go figure!?) but was told they can't do this. Their meter reading reminders only come through when a meter reading hasn't been submitted in 6 months.

    As a side note, I had smart meters installed by Eon (superior to EDF by a country mile) when I had my supply with them. Every time I've been in touch with EDF customer services, they encourage me to visit their smart meter page & sign up. The page tells me that there is no availability for smart meters in my area, but to leave my number and they will be in touch when they are. This doesn't change anything on my account as I have already done this but get told to look every time I speak to them. I don't know what needs to be done, considering there are already smart meters fitted. Surely they don't intend to fit new meters again? If they do, that's an egregious waste of money.

    My current problem stems from their website, which gives me conflicting information regarding the direct debit amount for my tariff. I noticed that on the 'My Tariff' page it says my direct debit is £40 per month. The actual direct debit amount on the front page of the site is nearly double this, so I decided to query it with them. Initially the customer service adviser told me the amount on the 'My Tariff' page was for my electric only. So I asked why the tariff page would list only the cost of my electricity, not the gas. The adviser then decided they couldn't explain it, and tried to end the chat (I was using the online chat). I explained they had not answered the question, and the information on their website is misleading. I had never been quoted a £40pm direct debit.

    At this point, rather than continue the back and forth with an adviser who had already lied to me, I asked to make a complaint. The adviser said they have raised the complaint, and I thanked them for their help (being polite, as they had provided very little assistance). The adviser took me thanking them as being happy, then asked if they could close the complaint I had just made, without actually resolving the issue! I told the adviser to keep the complaint open, and was then told they would keep it open and check with the relevant team, and email me an update. The email update arrived this morning with absolutely no resolution to the misleading information on their website, stating they know their website is wrong, but are "confident all actions have been taken to resolve everything".

    I look forward to switching away from this lot.

    If anyone has any suggestions on what I should do with the complaint I still have, I'd appreciate it.

    [Edit: In true EDF style, the ar*e-holes have decided to put my already abnormally high direct debit up again! I can only say, if you happen to disagree with something on the EDF website, don't say anything, as they put your bill up. Both times I've had to get in contact with EDF, they have increased my bill amount significantly. This actually feels like a punishment for challenging my supplier.]
    Last edited by mammoth200; 04-09-2017 at 10:58 AM. Reason: Update to circumstances of post.
  • British Gas Rep Matt
    • #9
    • 1st Sep 17, 10:40 AM
    • #9
    • 1st Sep 17, 10:40 AM
    [QUOTE=;73051253]"Thanks, Hengus, as ever for your help. It is appreciated.

    I absolutely accept your point about the obligation on any supplier not to proceed with something if it could be deemed to be erroneous.

    But I'm surprised I have to find that out from you. Instead of learning of this from EDF.

    If an incorrect meter address appears on the national database, and the only way it can be corrected is by the existing supplier, then EDF should have volunteered that information immediately. Consumers are not psychic."

    Hi hybernia, I'm sorry to hear you're leaving us but it's more disappointing there's been a hiccup with the switch.
    We'll usually have the address on the National database for electricity supplies updated within a couple of weeks but it can be a bit quicker at times. I'm sure we'll be in touch shortly to let you know it's been corrected shortly but if you need an update earlier; please call our offices on 03332029802. Thanks, Matt
    I am the official company representative of British Gas. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Frozen_up_north
    • By Frozen_up_north 4th Sep 17, 5:04 PM
    • 1,270 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    Frozen_up_north
    Here were are, c/o day plus 4. Log on and they are still "Registering" my account and asking for meter readings. I've given them readings twice by chat and once by entry into the boxes on the web page...

    At EDF, lights on, nobody home
    • Pedro1877
    • By Pedro1877 8th Sep 17, 11:30 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Pedro1877
    Have you tried contacting them on Twitter? - sometimes they can speed things up.
    • Bigphil1474
    • By Bigphil1474 8th Sep 17, 12:25 PM
    • 696 Posts
    • 292 Thanks
    Bigphil1474
    OP, I'm into my fourth year with EDF as they've been the cheapest for me. Gotta say, I've had no issues with them. They have on occasions want to make big changes to the DD - up and down - but we've always been able to use the website to get them to stop that, as we always like to get in credit in the summer and lose that over the winter.
    I use the Android EDF app and never had any issues with it. Great for putting readings straight in, and retrieving bills etc. Always seems to have the right info on DD's, credits and debits etc. Maybe you've just been unlucky.
    • Frozen_up_north
    • By Frozen_up_north 11th Sep 17, 8:58 AM
    • 1,270 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    Frozen_up_north
    Have you tried contacting them on Twitter? - sometimes they can speed things up.
    Originally posted by Pedro1877
    I don't use Twitter, but have raised a complaint with them and have a letter from them with the complaint reference number. It's now change over day + 10 and they still say "Registering" and asking for a meter reading, even though they have been given readings.

    I guess they are just slow, strange how you can change bank accounts in 7 days, energy suppliers (with my smart meter too) seem totally hopeless...
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