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  • FIRST POST
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 28th Aug 17, 3:35 PM
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    Spendless
    0 WOW
    Being a Vegetarian on holiday
    • #1
    • 28th Aug 17, 3:35 PM
    0 WOW
    Being a Vegetarian on holiday 28th Aug 17 at 3:35 PM
    My teenage daughter became vegetarian last year (went to school a meat eater and came home veggie!) Faddy as a meat eater, she's not much better having eliminated it.

    Since then we've had 2 family holidays. Last year we did a few days in Belgium, very few veggie choices when eating out (we stayed in a hotel) but we managed by looking at every menu and then eating when something suitable was found. Breakfast was better as it was buffet style at the hotel.

    We've just returned from a fortnight in Florida, and I thought vegetarian options would be better there - they weren't! Thankfully we were self catering but the options for eating out weren't great. I've lost count of how many cheese and tomato pizzas she had! The worst one was when ordering an egg muffin at a McD's off their all day breakfast menu. when she opened it, it had a slice of ham on it! When I took it back with the receipt convinced they'd messed the order up I got a rather sharp response of 'what were you wanting on it?' and surprised that egg and a cheese slice was all that was required. I know McD's isn't a great choice anyway but she wanted to go 'cos it's got free wi-fi' At the airport I had to ask about why all the fries were listed as 'parmesan fries' and then explain I didn't want the automatic sprinkling of cheese over a portion. This sort of thing happened so often, I started questiong if Americans use a different word to us for vegetarian, as they didn't seem to grasp what I meant?

    Anyway for my dilemma, my mind is turning to next years hols and am wondering where to go to not have a huge issue about what she eats. Self catering would be the obvious answer, but she'd like a holiday where other kids of her age would be but I'm relucantant to book a hotel if she can't eat the meals.

    Am hoping some more 'experienced' vegetarians can give more some pointers about holidays abroad and their dietery needs.

    Thanks.
Page 4
    • GwylimT
    • By GwylimT 1st Sep 17, 7:28 PM
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    GwylimT
    It's vegetarian, but not vegan, as it's not flesh.

    I don't see rennet as bring any different from milk, from which all cheese is made,
    Originally posted by pollypenny
    No it isn't, milk doesn't contain the stomach contents of a dead animal, parmesan does.
    • KayJay
    • By KayJay 9th Sep 17, 5:28 PM
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    KayJay
    Have you considered cruising? My daughter is a veggie and although on the dining room menus there are always a couple of veggie options, if you ask for the vegetarian menu then it will be given. Then the buffet which is available for all meals - they have loads of veggie options.
    That way you can sample the different countries and their foods but if you don't like 'em - eat on the ship.
    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 9th Sep 17, 5:40 PM
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    pollypenny
    No it isn't, milk doesn't contain the stomach contents of a dead animal, parmesan does.
    Originally posted by GwylimT


    Rennet is still not flesh. One could say that all cheese contains the contents of an animals body. Or are teats different to stomachs?
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
    • GwylimT
    • By GwylimT 9th Sep 17, 6:16 PM
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    GwylimT
    Rennet is still not flesh. One could say that all cheese contains the contents of an animals body. Or are teats different to stomachs?
    Originally posted by pollypenny
    It is actually. So you think milk contains udder?
    • beeg0d
    • By beeg0d 11th Sep 17, 7:38 AM
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    beeg0d
    Rennet is still not flesh. One could say that all cheese contains the contents of an animals body. Or are teats different to stomachs?
    Originally posted by pollypenny
    I think you'll find the difference is NOT what it contains but the method of getting it. Milk you fill up a bucket and the cow walks away. Rennet requires the slaughter of the calve to harvest the stomach acid.

    Wheather thats acceptable to the veggie depends on their reasons for being a veggie. If its just because they dont like meat or health reasons then they may have no problems with rennet cheese, but if its on moral grounds (dont want an annimal to die so they can eat) then of cause rennet is a massive no
    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 11th Sep 17, 9:12 AM
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    pollypenny
    I think you'll find the difference is NOT what it contains but the method of getting it. Milk you fill up a bucket and the cow walks away. Rennet requires the slaughter of the calve to harvest the stomach acid.

    Wheather thats acceptable to the veggie depends on their reasons for being a veggie. If its just because they dont like meat or health reasons then they may have no problems with rennet cheese, but if its on moral grounds (dont want an annimal to die so they can eat) then of cause rennet is a massive no
    Originally posted by beeg0d

    Exactly. But sadly so many calves are simply bred to keep the mother lactating. Too many are just slaughtered anyway.
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 11th Sep 17, 9:30 AM
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    Anthorn
    I think you'll find the difference is NOT what it contains but the method of getting it. Milk you fill up a bucket and the cow walks away. Rennet requires the slaughter of the calve to harvest the stomach acid.

    Wheather thats acceptable to the veggie depends on their reasons for being a veggie. If its just because they dont like meat or health reasons then they may have no problems with rennet cheese, but if its on moral grounds (dont want an annimal to die so they can eat) then of cause rennet is a massive no
    Originally posted by beeg0d
    In fact it's not the "method of getting it" per se but "where it comes from" - the fourth stomach of slaughtered calves and also slaughtered adult cows and pigs

    It also depends on the type of cheese. Some cheese such as Parmesan will never be vegetarian but other types of cheese can be made from artificial rennet produced from fungi. Personally I eat vegetarian cheese and Ihave never failed to find it. I bought my last lot from ASDA. But I have developed a liking for Tofu from ASDA which is the Vegan's alternative to cheese.

    https://www.vegsoc.org/cheese
    • Ainsley1
    • By Ainsley1 11th Sep 17, 10:14 AM
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    Ainsley1
    in fact it's not the "method of getting it" per se but "where it comes from"
    With that logic, it is ok to eat vegetables that have grown on anything that is purely vegetative, but you would not eat ones that have been fed on anything derived from animals?

    I have I got your argument understood correctly that milk is ok because it comes from the inside of an udder but animal rennet is not because it comes from the inside of a stomach. It is nothing to do with the slaughter of animals?

    I admit to being omniverous and sometimes the logic of some vegetarians defeated me even though I can see that there are financial and health benefits from eating plenty of veg.
    • sgun
    • By sgun 11th Sep 17, 3:59 PM
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    sgun
    With that logic, it is ok to eat vegetables that have grown on anything that is purely vegetative, but you would not eat ones that have been fed on anything derived from animals?

    I have I got your argument understood correctly that milk is ok because it comes from the inside of an udder but animal rennet is not because it comes from the inside of a stomach. It is nothing to do with the slaughter of animals?

    I admit to being omniverous and sometimes the logic of some vegetarians defeated me even though I can see that there are financial and health benefits from eating plenty of veg.
    Originally posted by Ainsley1
    I'm a vegetarian and a horticulturalist; I don't use blood, fish and bone or any other animal derived products on my crops. If I'm delivering a workshop I always discuss the issues surrounding products like these - it's not just for vegetarians, many religions have restrictions on what they feel comfortable using so I think its good to bring it up. Its very unlikely that mass farmed crops would be fed with blood, fish and bone as its cheaper and easier to use synthetic fertilisers.

    Rennet comes from the flesh of a dead animal, milk does not. For those who don't want to contribute to any perceived cruelties within the dairy industry there is veganism.

    As this has gone OT I shall bring it back round to the original question.
    Greece is fab for vegetarians, Budapest is also wonderful, Berlin is amazing (but not the rest of Germany). I have trouble in Spain as they quite often pop in a bit of ham as a surprise. The concept of vegetarianism isn't well understood or respected much, its a different culture so fair enough. I found the food in Croatia quite bland and repetitive but the fresh fruit and veg on the markets was excellent so I did lots of self catering. Russia was just awful, I thought I would die of starvation! I have enjoyed good food in Poland and Slovakia, not so much in the Czech Republic. In northern France I ate a lot of cheese, good cheese, possibly made with animal rennet but that's my choice :-)

    I should add that I never stay in big hotel complexes and as the OP probably would there would be different food available anyway.
    • Heedtheadvice
    • By Heedtheadvice 11th Sep 17, 8:16 PM
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    Heedtheadvice
    I think you are correct sgon that the posts seem to have gone off topic. I would also give Greece a vote.....but then there is the confusion about what is acceptable to the OP's daughter.

    As is quite clear one person's vegetarian choice is sometimes totally abhorrent to another....and that if where it becomes impossible to give a definitive response. Clearly you and others accept cheese is fine (lovely Greek Feta, Kefalotiri etc. come to mind) to others even fish is impossible some verge on vegan.

    It is difficult for a non vegetarian to understand the different objections to animal derived products.

    Fish blood and bone is not used by you and is expensive too (but a great fertilizer non the less) so you will use others. Some perhaps derived from oil (animal product?) and others (maybe vegetable derived such as fermented beet) ...but I can see Ainsley's argument in another way. How small an animal does it need to be before products are considered not to be derived from an animal? Cow, sheep, earthworm, other minute animal organisms? Where do insects feature in the logic. One presumes micro organisms are fine as are animal cells in milk?
    Last edited by Heedtheadvice; 11-09-2017 at 8:19 PM. Reason: spelling by my tablet!!
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 12th Sep 17, 11:40 AM
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    Anthorn
    With that logic, it is ok to eat vegetables that have grown on anything that is purely vegetative, but you would not eat ones that have been fed on anything derived from animals?

    I have I got your argument understood correctly that milk is ok because it comes from the inside of an udder but animal rennet is not because it comes from the inside of a stomach. It is nothing to do with the slaughter of animals?

    I admit to being omniverous and sometimes the logic of some vegetarians defeated me even though I can see that there are financial and health benefits from eating plenty of veg.
    Originally posted by Ainsley1
    Looks like you have the terms confused.

    Depends on whether you are Vegetarian or Vegan. Some vegetarians eat dairy products, eggs and fish but vegans don't eat anything which comes from an animal including honey.

    c.f. Ovo-Vegetarian.

    In some cases "Vegetarian" just means "meat-free". For example the ingredients list on "ASDA Meat Free 6 Lincolnshire sausages" which bears the "Sutable For Vegetarians" mark includes "Dried Free Range Egg White" We must note in this example that "Suitable For Vegetarians" doesn't mean "Suitable For Vegans".

    These standards are pretty applicable world-wide when travelling. For example at Butlins, U.K. I was given fish as a vegetarian meal as I was in a restaurant in Agde, France and in a restaurant in Kissime, USA.

    For info on the rest of your post you will have to look at animal rights organisations such as PETA:
    https://www.peta.org
    Last edited by Anthorn; 12-09-2017 at 11:43 AM. Reason: Last paragraph added
    • wannabe_a_mum
    • By wannabe_a_mum 12th Sep 17, 12:27 PM
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    wannabe_a_mum
    Not always veggie friendly in Italy
    Hi, Thanks for reply. Ideally we'd like to go somewhere in Europe eg Spain.

    I hadn't thought of Italy, that would make sense them having more vegetarian options.
    Originally posted by Spendless


    We've recently returned from a holiday in Italy (Sorrento and Rome) - we are both Vegetarian and it was extremely difficult for the majority of Italians to understand the concept of pure vegetarian food! In a lot of establishments we found that 'veggie' food and non veggie food shared the same display plates (eg at Rome Terminus food/bar area) and very often they used the same serving utensils!
    Even at the hotel in Sorrento for breakfast the veg and non veg topped bread rolls and other delicacies shared the same serving plate and also serving spoons.
    At Rome airport we saw the Pizza bar staff cutting veg and non veg pizzas with the same pizza cutter and utilising the same paddle for the oven.
    I guess what I am trying to say is that the 'concept' of keeping something veggie is not consistent in Italy - as you are a family with a mix of vegetarians and non vegetarians, I guess I am saying that you may struggle in Italy to accommodate tastes without having to go from place to place.


    In the USA I have found that eating establishments recognise Vegan but not Vegetarian - the response I often get is "well it's got no meat in it" but don't recognise meat derivatives as added ingredients!!!


    In Paris you can find Indian Pure Vegetarian restaurants - particularly southern indian cuisine


    Hope this helps
    • wannabe_a_mum
    • By wannabe_a_mum 12th Sep 17, 12:29 PM
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    wannabe_a_mum
    Turkey
    We've recently returned from a holiday in Italy (Sorrento and Rome) - we are both Vegetarian and it was extremely difficult for the majority of Italians to understand the concept of pure vegetarian food! In a lot of establishments we found that 'veggie' food and non veggie food shared the same display plates (eg at Rome Terminus food/bar area) and very often they used the same serving utensils!
    Even at the hotel in Sorrento for breakfast the veg and non veg topped bread rolls and other delicacies shared the same serving plate and also serving spoons.
    At Rome airport we saw the Pizza bar staff cutting veg and non veg pizzas with the same pizza cutter and utilising the same paddle for the oven.
    I guess what I am trying to say is that the 'concept' of keeping something veggie is not consistent in Italy - as you are a family with a mix of vegetarians and non vegetarians, I guess I am saying that you may struggle in Italy to accommodate tastes without having to go from place to place.


    In the USA I have found that eating establishments recognise Vegan but not Vegetarian - the response I often get is "well it's got no meat in it" but don't recognise meat derivatives as added ingredients!!!


    In Paris you can find Indian Pure Vegetarian restaurants - particularly southern indian cuisine


    Hope this helps
    Originally posted by wannabe_a_mum

    Just to add - we found Turkey was fine for vegetarian food. Most places made things fresh and were able to adapt meat dishes to be meat free too
    • Ainsley1
    • By Ainsley1 12th Sep 17, 5:06 PM
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    Ainsley1
    Anthorn,
    Looks like you have the terms confused.
    Well I don't think I am confused at all between vegetarian and Vegan!

    Some vegetarians eat dairy products, eggs and fish
    Thank you that just makes my point! As an example the OP's daughter would eat pizza (containing cheese) but there seemed to be some problems with parmesan chips (containing cheese) both probably using rennet in their production.

    "Parmesan is not vegetarian."
    "I know some veggies who are meatr free for health rather than ethical reasons and don't really care about animal byproducts used in making cheese, other food and drinks as well as leather and five pound notes."
    " do eat cheese, eggs etc. " (including parmesan?)
    "can handle my veggie burger if it's been on the same grill as the meat - I can pick out meat from a sandwich"
    but then some vegetarians cannot eat anything that has touched meat, or have fish or fish sauce!

    So, without there bring a definitive definition included I posts to quantify what is meant by the wide spread grey areas of vegetarianism , on what is forum to try and help how can we?

    I have great sympathy with the OP trying to find things the daughter will eat and there have been plenty of suggestions but I wonder of the daughter would eat all those that , like proper parmesan, contain, have been derived from or have touched meat! Even milk will have 'flesh' cells in it or have touched them!

    Any vegetarian who is easy going will have no problems whatsoever in many of the areas suggested.....but what about daughter?
    Last edited by Ainsley1; 12-09-2017 at 5:15 PM. Reason: additional clarification
    • sgun
    • By sgun 12th Sep 17, 8:02 PM
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    sgun
    One very simple point that seems to be confusing people...vegetarians don't ever eat fish. If you do, you are not a vegetarian, you are a pescatarian.
    • Heedtheadvice
    • By Heedtheadvice 12th Sep 17, 9:47 PM
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    Heedtheadvice
    Thanks for pointing that out, Sgun. {edit and indeed Anthorn relatinmg to ovo-vegetarian} Not a term that had crossed my mind and it was worth reading on Wiki.

    I note that what many vegetarians eat is actually the ovo-lacto vegetarian diet or pescetarian i.e. with the addition of fish but not other meat flesh. [and there are other variations too such as the ovo mention by Anthorn!]

    The whole topic is not as simple as it might first appear. Thanks for the enlightenment.

    So Ainsley' post really is incorrect in that there probably not really many grey areas......just many (possibly including 'vegetarians' ) who, just like me, do not understand it all!

    'Vegetarian' as a description therefore seems to cover a whole gamut of variations thus making answering the question even more difficult!

    At least Spendless can just ask his/her daughter exactly what she is and then try and find ways to explain it all in a restaurant in the appropriate foreign language!!
    Last edited by Heedtheadvice; 12-09-2017 at 9:54 PM. Reason: corrections
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