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    • ross1976
    • By ross1976 27th Aug 17, 10:51 AM
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    ross1976
    HMRC wont accept offer
    • #1
    • 27th Aug 17, 10:51 AM
    HMRC wont accept offer 27th Aug 17 at 10:51 AM
    Looking for a little advice.

    My first ever post

    Last month 18th July I received a letter from HMRC saying i owe £3800 in unpaid tax plus fines of £662 this is for tax years 12/13 13/14 14/15. in the space of one months i have found out about the debt had demands for payment and threatening letters for door step collection. I immediately phoned HMRC and was told this was for over £50K child benefit tax. This has now been explained to me and i understand it however HMRC will not accept an offer from me. The first offer of £100 was rejected and the second of £150 was rejected. The lady i spoke to said make the £150 payment anyway to show your willing so i did and have been. I have since received several letters asking to pay in full or they will be on my doorstep. I called back to discus again and was told the amount was too little, i have accepted the debt but until i am back on my feet after 2 years of unemployment i cant afford anymore. I did find this interesting though, I asked for all correspondence relating to this debt going back to 2012 to which i was told the only communication they have sent was related to my company car in 2013, The HMRC adviser had a chuckle Literally laughed and said we haven't sent you anything in relation to this debt. I asked how would i know i owed the money if you haven't sent any communications he replied i see what your saying and you wouldn't know. i got put through to another team within HMRC and the arrogance was you owe the money and have to pay. the offer is still not being accepted but i`m still paying.
    I owe the money thats fine my real problem is this wouldn't have got to this stage if i had known about it.
    I just think its ridiculous that i have gone back to work after 2 years i have received this demand they wont accept my offer and they know they didn't send my any communication, at best i think the fines are not fare.

    Any advice greatly appreciate
Page 1
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 27th Aug 17, 11:01 AM
    • 4,660 Posts
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    Darksparkle
    • #2
    • 27th Aug 17, 11:01 AM
    • #2
    • 27th Aug 17, 11:01 AM
    Why would you think they'd accept £150 for a debt of over £4000?

    The child benefit high income charge was well publicised. It was up to the claimant to register and complete self assessments.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 27th Aug 17, 11:05 AM
    • 5,719 Posts
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    p00hsticks
    • #3
    • 27th Aug 17, 11:05 AM
    • #3
    • 27th Aug 17, 11:05 AM
    There has been a similar thread over on the 'cutting tax' board -
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5692533

    Unfortunately for you the consensus seems to be that the withdrawal of child benefit to those earning over £50k were very well publicised and it is peoples individual responsibility to ensure they are meeting the critieria for claiming benefits.
    • ross1976
    • By ross1976 27th Aug 17, 11:35 AM
    • 8 Posts
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    ross1976
    • #4
    • 27th Aug 17, 11:35 AM
    • #4
    • 27th Aug 17, 11:35 AM
    I would think they would accept given that after all my outgoings including the £150 i have £100 left. i might have missed the fact i am now trying to repay debt due to unemployment including mortgage arrears.
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 27th Aug 17, 12:14 PM
    • 4,660 Posts
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    Darksparkle
    • #5
    • 27th Aug 17, 12:14 PM
    • #5
    • 27th Aug 17, 12:14 PM
    I would think they would accept given that after all my outgoings including the £150 i have £100 left. i might have missed the fact i am now trying to repay debt due to unemployment including mortgage arrears.
    Originally posted by ross1976
    So do you mean you offered a monthly payment of £150, not just £150?
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 27th Aug 17, 12:45 PM
    • 23,480 Posts
    • 13,652 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #6
    • 27th Aug 17, 12:45 PM
    • #6
    • 27th Aug 17, 12:45 PM
    It was misconceived, clumsy legislation and though unaffected by it, I did write a letter of complaint to my MP.

    But it was well publicised.

    http://monevator.com/how-to-keep-child-benefit-and-retire-richer/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20119514
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 27th Aug 17, 12:52 PM
    • 23,480 Posts
    • 13,652 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #7
    • 27th Aug 17, 12:52 PM
    • #7
    • 27th Aug 17, 12:52 PM
    https://www.gov.uk/if-you-dont-pay-your-tax-bill/overview


    Has a payments by instalments plan been refused by HMRC?
    • Carl31
    • By Carl31 27th Aug 17, 12:53 PM
    • 2,024 Posts
    • 4,560 Thanks
    Carl31
    • #8
    • 27th Aug 17, 12:53 PM
    • #8
    • 27th Aug 17, 12:53 PM
    It was misconceived, clumsy legislation and though unaffected by it, I did write a letter of complaint to my MP.

    But it was well publicised.

    http://monevator.com/how-to-keep-child-benefit-and-retire-richer/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20119514
    Originally posted by xylophone
    did you get a response?

    It is poor legislation. Someone earning £50k in london is going to be in a very different position to someone earning £50k in yorkshire for example

    Also, the big issue where a family of a single earner earning £50-60k loses out, where a household with income of £100k gets to keep it (£50k x 2)
    • ross1976
    • By ross1976 27th Aug 17, 12:55 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ross1976
    • #9
    • 27th Aug 17, 12:55 PM
    • #9
    • 27th Aug 17, 12:55 PM
    No i offered £150 per month until my circumstance change which should be in 2 or 3 months then the payment can double
    • w00519772
    • By w00519772 27th Aug 17, 1:09 PM
    • 1,156 Posts
    • 208 Thanks
    w00519772
    Why are you angry with HMRC? It is not their fault. As others have said; it is your responsibility to make sure you are receiving the correct amount.

    You made them an offer and they have declined the offer. I guess you have two options:

    1) Increase your offer
    2) Deal with the consequences of not increasing your offer.

    Sorry if this sounds harsh. I am no expert. If I was you then I would pay as much of it as I could each month e.g. £150 this month; £175 next month etc. As others have said it would show willing.
    Last edited by w00519772; 27-08-2017 at 1:13 PM.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 27th Aug 17, 1:18 PM
    • 3,875 Posts
    • 2,884 Thanks
    sheramber
    Have you sent HMRC an Income and Expenditure statement to back up your offer?
    • ross1976
    • By ross1976 27th Aug 17, 1:30 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ross1976
    Have you sent HMRC an Income and Expenditure statement to back up your offer?
    Originally posted by sheramber
    Income and expenditure done 2 weeks ago and they said this would be evaluated nothing back from them apart from the letters saying about debt recovery.
    • ross1976
    • By ross1976 27th Aug 17, 1:39 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ross1976
    Why are you angry with HMRC? It is not their fault. As others have said; it is your responsibility to make sure you are receiving the correct amount.

    You made them an offer and they have declined the offer. I guess you have two options:

    1) Increase your offer
    2) Deal with the consequences of not increasing your offer.

    Sorry if this sounds harsh. I am no expert. If I was you then I would pay as much of it as I could each month e.g. £150 this month; £175 next month etc. As others have said it would show willing.
    Originally posted by w00519772
    Not Harsh but the truth. Whilst all the comments are valid i find it amazing that throughout my working Career i`ve got letters every year about Tax codes, Company Car tax, underpayment and over payments but the one that goes to debt recovery i have never seen a single letter prior to July 2017 .

    I owe the money granted and accepted my real bugbear is the lack of communication from HMRC. I was looking for advice on the fines as i think they are unjust.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 27th Aug 17, 2:22 PM
    • 23,480 Posts
    • 13,652 Thanks
    xylophone
    did you get a response?
    I did - anodyne, very much on the lines of the excuses offered in the bbc link in my post above and no explanation at all of why total household income was not taken into account.
    • parkrunner
    • By parkrunner 27th Aug 17, 3:23 PM
    • 777 Posts
    • 1,142 Thanks
    parkrunner
    No i offered £150 per month until my circumstance change which should be in 2 or 3 months then the payment can double
    Originally posted by ross1976
    I would keep paying the £150 and then offer the £300/month in two or three months. They will ignore the extra offer now so don't even make it.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 27th Aug 17, 3:56 PM
    • 4,128 Posts
    • 4,261 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    If you never received any notification, and from what you say HMRC has confirmed this, it might be worth taking up with your MP. You might at least get the fine removed or reduced. Nothing to lose by trying, and government departments tend to be much more helpful once an MP gets involved.
    • ross1976
    • By ross1976 29th Aug 17, 3:46 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ross1976
    If you never received any notification, and from what you say HMRC has confirmed this, it might be worth taking up with your MP. You might at least get the fine removed or reduced. Nothing to lose by trying, and government departments tend to be much more helpful once an MP gets involved.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    After speaking with HMRC today they have agreed my payment terms after threatening to write to my MP. funny how something so simple as using your MP changes their minds.

    Thank you for you help
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 29th Aug 17, 5:21 PM
    • 4,128 Posts
    • 4,261 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    After speaking with HMRC today they have agreed my payment terms after threatening to write to my MP. funny how something so simple as using your MP changes their minds.

    Thank you for you help
    Originally posted by ross1976
    Funny that When I worked at DWP I used to tell people who were complaining about not having ESA assessments to call their MP, even when I was working on the benefit. The number of times referrals for WCA suddenly appeared a few days after the suggestion certainly indicates that it's not coincidence. Appalling though that people should have to go to such lengths before anything happens.
    • ross1976
    • By ross1976 14th Sep 17, 10:32 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ross1976
    so received a letter from HMRC agreeing payment terms also received a phone call from walthamstow office asking if the letter had arrived. Whilst on the call i asked the question why this couldn't have been dealt with the first time round the lady proceeded to tell me the directive from management is to get the money by any possible means and to offer little help as possible with payment options. hopefully they didn't record the call for her sake.
    • xs2man
    • By xs2man 15th Sep 17, 10:52 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    xs2man
    I too am in a similar position. They have applied charges going back to 2014 (when I returned to the UK from working abroad).

    I found it incredible that they hid behind the excuse that it was well advertised at the time, yet my reason of not being in the country at the time was not considered a valid enough reason.

    As you say, if, at the time of the first discrepancy, they had informed us of such changes, I could have dealt with it at the time. However, to not inform me, for 3 years, then go back and apply penalties, just seems unfair.

    Before they calculated the charges, I had been informed of the due amount. I had contacted HMRC, and have made arrangements to repay this on a monthly basis, without hesitation or appeal. I do not disagree with the back taxes due.

    However, I do disagree, entirely, that I would be due the charges. Mostly accrued through their inability to inform me in a timely fashion. I mean, it's not like they wouldn't have seen I wasn't in the UK system for a couple years. I wasn't, obviously, receiving any benefits, nor was I earning any money in the UK, so I wasn't paying any taxes in the UK, at the time of the change. A thing they would have known, as they did point out to me that letters were drawn up and sent to everyone who would be eligible for this extra taxation. And I was not in receipt of said letter.

    A simple letter, at the end of the tax year in 2014 (the first end of tax year since my return), and this would have all been sorted.

    I have since made an appeal. And today, before hearing a response from the appeal, I got another demand for payment. I called them up, got sent through to the compliance centre, who has since informed me my appeal, on the grounds of not being in the country to observe the national promotion of the new system, has been rejected. How this is not a valid enough excuse is beyond me? I consider it not a valid enough excuse to not inform me for 3 years that I am doing it wrong. I suppose they can be forgiven for not knowing I didn't have a TV license either at the time, so didn't watch TV, and don't read the papers, so wouldn't really have known about the campaign most likely, even if I were in the country.
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