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    • Glaswegian in London
    • By Glaswegian in London 22nd Aug 17, 11:06 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Glaswegian in London
    UK CPM and the wrong date
    • #1
    • 22nd Aug 17, 11:06 PM
    UK CPM and the wrong date 22nd Aug 17 at 11:06 PM
    I was wondering if anyone can help. I received a County Court Claim Form from UK CPM (being represented by Gladstone Solicitors). It pertains to a parking charge incurred on the 1st Feb 2017 when I was parked in a residents parking bay that was not allocated to me. They are claiming £240.69.

    I struggled to get details about this notice as I had discarded all correspondences from the UK CPM, Debt Recovery Plus and Gladstone Solicitors. I was away that day and couldn't have possibly parked there. The management agent and UK CPM all failed to give me any evidence or details of the alleged contravention until after the County Court Claim Form came.

    I finally received an email with photographic evidence showing that the alleged offence occurred on the 5th January 2017 and not the 1st February 2017 as stated in the County Claim Form. I am not sure if I should mention the fact that it was an earlier date but just try and have the case dismissed on the grounds that the date is incorrect.

    I was going to state the following in my Defence:

    'I dispute the full amount claimed. I was not at B* House on the 1st February 2017 and therefore could not have incurred any parking charges then. The first that I heard about this was in correspondence from Debt Recovery Plus. I contacted UK CPM (via the Property Management Agents who have commissioned their services) and they have refused to provide any information as to the details of the alleged parking violation stating that this will only be provided in court. I subsequently received the county court summons and this states that the parking charge relates to a day that I was not even at the property. '

    Would appreciate any advice! I have to reply by the end of the month.

    Thanks

    PS I had parked in another resident bay (that is always vacant) as someone had parked in my allocated bay (not that I believe UK CPM has any right to demand that I display a permit as my lease does not require this)
    Last edited by Glaswegian in London; 22-08-2017 at 11:10 PM. Reason: Hiding details of my accommodation etc
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Aug 17, 12:16 AM
    • 51,470 Posts
    • 65,059 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 23rd Aug 17, 12:16 AM
    • #2
    • 23rd Aug 17, 12:16 AM
    (not that I believe UK CPM has any right to demand that I display a permit as my lease does not require this)
    I would advise that you use the fuller defence for ''own space'' cases in addition to your good point about not being there on 1st Feb. I would NOT rely on a very risky 1 point defence.

    The recent 'own space' defence (which can be adapted nicely, even though the car appears to have stopped in the wrong space - briefly maybe, since the right space was blocked!) is in the NEWBIES thread post #2. the defence written by Johnersh, linked there, use and adapt it so you have ALL possible defence points covered.

    Don't use MCOL to submit the defence, do it by email as a signed/dated PDF attachment.

    You've done the AOS online? Also covered in picture in the NEWBIES thread, if not.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Glaswegian in London
    • By Glaswegian in London 23rd Aug 17, 5:35 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Glaswegian in London
    • #3
    • 23rd Aug 17, 5:35 AM
    • #3
    • 23rd Aug 17, 5:35 AM
    Thanks, Coupon-mad. I haven't done the AOS yet and will submit the MCOL in writing.
    We have been resident at the property since 2014 and my wife has also received 2 charge notices at the end of February 2017 (over the space of a week) for parking in our own bay without displaying a permit. I think that It's only a matter ofd time before this goes to the county court way too. I was going to use the same defence for that. Debt recovery has offered her £248 to pay both of her tickets before it goes to the solicitor.

    My concern is that I work as a hospital doctor and my wife is my wife is pregnant and we have a 2 year old. It would be difficult for either of us to find time to go to the county court, especially as I would have to cancel clinics, endoscopies or operations to attend or look after the young ones if she has to.

    Sadly, I'm thinking that paying the £500 would be less hassle but don't want UK CPM and their debt recovery to get away with this. Is there any way that someone else could represent us and we pay them (happier the money going to anyone but these unscrupulous individuals)!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 23rd Aug 17, 11:24 AM
    • 823 Posts
    • 946 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #4
    • 23rd Aug 17, 11:24 AM
    • #4
    • 23rd Aug 17, 11:24 AM
    No, do the Acknowledgement online
    Easiest way to submit a defence is via email. Print it out, sign, scan and attach as a PDF.

    Unless you pay a proper solicitor to represent you you MUST attend court. This is non-optional.

    If you pay now, theyll keep hounding you. You COULD ask for a hearing on the papers, and make sure yo uattack EVERYTHING.
    • Glaswegian in London
    • By Glaswegian in London 23rd Aug 17, 1:47 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Glaswegian in London
    • #5
    • 23rd Aug 17, 1:47 PM
    • #5
    • 23rd Aug 17, 1:47 PM
    Thanks, nosferatu1001.

    I had also posted on the Pepipoo as Old Farmer and appreciate your advice there too. I will go ahead and acknowledge online as advised (The date of issue is the 14th August). I will prepare the defence and ask if they allow the hearing on papers.

    Will post my defence and would very much appreciate any suggestions.

    Thanks
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 23rd Aug 17, 1:57 PM
    • 613 Posts
    • 1,122 Thanks
    safarmuk
    • #6
    • 23rd Aug 17, 1:57 PM
    • #6
    • 23rd Aug 17, 1:57 PM
    In parallel I would get onto the Management Agent, certainly about your wife's allocated space tickets and tell them to get them cancelled post haste. If your lease does not allow the MA to impose these parking restrictions and especially if your allocated space is demised or the rights to use it are demised "exclusively to you" then they are likely breaching your lease.

    I would strongly suggest they get their contractor (UK CPM) under control and get your tickets cancelled otherwise you would be perfectly entitled to pursue them for this breach of lease (including allowing your family to be incorrectly harassed by their agent) if this is indeed the case.

    UK CPM and other PPCs are infesting Residential Car Parks via MAs all over the country and MAs seem to be under the impression that they don't have to manage such a situation to the benefit of the residents and leaseholders. I would advise you explain to them - sternly - that this is not the case if as you say your lease does not support it.

    You can save yourself a lot of hassle - certainly on the cases that have not yet gone to the court stage - by getting them cancelled now.
    • Glaswegian in London
    • By Glaswegian in London 13th Sep 17, 10:23 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Glaswegian in London
    • #7
    • 13th Sep 17, 10:23 PM
    Defence
    • #7
    • 13th Sep 17, 10:23 PM
    Apologies for the delay in reposting but have been busy moving home and it has been a struggle do so with a 2 year old and a heavily pregnant wife!

    Here is my Defence that I have submitted (an amendment of Johnersh's defence (on MoneySavingExpert.com)).

    The main point is that the offence, in the County Court Claim from Gladstone Solicitors, states the offence occurred on the 1st February 2017 (with UKCPM having stated in an email that they have photographic evidence that I was parked in an non-allocated bay on the 5th January). This bay is always empty and was used as someone else had parked in my bay (this is one of the closest to the building entrance and is often used by visitors and residents if stopping by for a short time etc).

    The second point made was that the primacy of contract defence (even if they were to ask to amend the particulars).

    'DEFENCE

    Preliminary
    1. The Particulars of Claim lack specificity, are false and are embarrassing. The Defendant is prejudiced and is unable to prepare a full and complete Defence. The Defendant reserves the right to seek from the Court permission to serve an Amended Defence should the Claimant add to or expand his Particulars at a later stage of these proceedings and/or to limit the Claimant only to the unevidenced allegations in the Particulars.

    2. The Particulars of Claim fail to refer to the material terms of any contract and neither comply with the CPR16 in respect of statements of case, nor the relevant practice direction in respect of claims formed by contract or conduct.

    Background
    3. It is admitted that at all material times the Defendant is the registered keeper of vehicle registration mark xxxx xxx which is the subject of these proceedings.

    4. It is strongly denied that on 1st February 2017 that the Defendant's vehicle was parked at xxxxxxxx.

    Authority to Park and Primacy of Contract
    5. Furthermore, it is denied that the Defendant was in breach of any parking conditions or was not permitted to park in circumstances where an express permission to park had been granted to the Defendant permitting the above mentioned vehicle to be parked by the terms of the lease which permits the parking of vehicle(s) on the land. The Defendant avers that there was an absolute entitlement to park deriving from the terms of the lease, which cannot be fettered by any alleged parking terms. The lease terms provide the right to park a vehicle in the relevant allocated bay, without limitation as to type of vehicle, ownership of vehicle, the user of the vehicle or the requirement to display a parking permit. A copy of the lease will be provided to the Court, together with witness evidence that prior permission to park had been given.

    7. The Defendant avers that the operator’s signs cannot (i) override the existing rights enjoyed by residents and their visitors and (ii) that parking easements cannot unilaterally be restricted where provided for within the lease. The Claimant will rely upon the judgments on appeal of HHJ Harris QC in Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd (2016) and of Sir Christopher Slade in K-Sultana Saeed v Plustrade Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 2011. The Court will be referred to further similar fact cases in the event that this matter proceeds to trial.

    7. Accordingly it is denied that:
    7.1. there was any agreement as between the Defendant or driver of the vehicle and the Claimant
    7.2. there was any obligation (at all) to display a permit; and
    7.3. the Claimant has suffered loss or damage or that there is a lawful basis to pursue a claim for loss.

    8. It is denied that the Claimant has standing to bring any claim in the absence of a contract that expressly permits the Claimant to do so, in addition to merely undertaking parking management. The Claimant has provided no proof of any such entitlement.

    9. It is denied that the Claimant has any entitlement to the sums sought.

    10. It is admitted that interest may be applicable, subject to the discretion of the Court on any sum (if awarded), but it is denied that interest is applicable on the total sums claimed by the Claimant.


    STATEMENT OF TRUTH
    I confirm that the contents of the Defence are true.'

    Hope this is OK

    PS I submitted this using MCOL as I don't have scanning facilities. Hope this shouldn't cause an issue
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 14th Sep 17, 7:50 AM
    • 645 Posts
    • 1,217 Thanks
    Johnersh
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 17, 7:50 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 17, 7:50 AM
    If you've submitted it as a defence it's done - it doesn't much matter what we think. On to allocation and witness statements respectively.

    Presumably you are going to be able to say (and prove) that you were somewhere else entirely on the day referred to in the ticket. That would be ideal for the witness statement.
    • Glaswegian in London
    • By Glaswegian in London 14th Sep 17, 10:27 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Glaswegian in London
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 10:27 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 10:27 PM
    Thanks, Johnersh. I had left things far too late and was concerned that I would run out of time and submitted the Defence (pretty much a cut and paste from you)r template.

    I was with my wife on the 1st February (she lives in West London) and am unlikely to be able to use her statement as proof.

    The reality is that the photo evidence from UK CPM show that the 'contravention' occurred on the 5th January, however Gladstones have mistakenly stated that it was the 1st February in their County Court Claim.

    Coupon-mad stated that I should not rely on this technicality for defending myself as Gladstones may amend the particulars of their claim so I had added on the primacy of contract defence. (Don't know if this would work as I had parked in a bay that was not mine albeit that it is always empty!)

    In fact it is only a matter of time before Gladstone take my wife to court for her parking in my bay on two occasions without displaying a valid permit. I think that this would be easier to overturn as the bay is allocated to me in the lease and there is no requirement in its wording for a permit to be displayed.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 14th Sep 17, 10:32 PM
    • 645 Posts
    • 1,217 Thanks
    Johnersh
    No worries. Whilst mere technicalities may not get you home, I think the date may be fundamental enough to go beyond that. Maybe a bolt on for the statement in due course?
    • Glaswegian in London
    • By Glaswegian in London 14th Sep 17, 10:35 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Glaswegian in London
    Thank you, Johnersh!
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