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  • FIRST POST
    • Sally57
    • By Sally57 22nd Aug 17, 11:43 AM
    • 88Posts
    • 18Thanks
    Sally57
    Provident Financial - Woodford, Barnett & Darwall
    • #1
    • 22nd Aug 17, 11:43 AM
    Provident Financial - Woodford, Barnett & Darwall 22nd Aug 17 at 11:43 AM
    When Provident shares fell by about 20% in June, Neil Woodford said he was still very confident in the company's management and its future prospects. Today the shares have fallen another 61% and the press are waiting for his statement/thoughts on this now. It's a very big hit for Woodford because he invests in Provident across all of his funds including the funds he manages at St James Place.

    As per the thread title, he is not the only high profile fund manager, however, he has the most to lose over all his managed funds. The other big losers are Mark Barnett with Invesco Perpetual, Edinburgh IT and Alexander Darwall at Jupiter European Opportunities IT.
Page 5
    • dividendhero
    • By dividendhero 28th Aug 17, 10:10 AM
    • 119 Posts
    • 93 Thanks
    dividendhero

    Now they've altered it then it'll be difficult to change it back, reading the times business today a former director has set up a direct competitors and recruited a lot of the old agents with more being added.
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    While anyone can recruit staff/agents from the Provvy, i'd imagine there's NDA's in place to stop them directly taking customers..
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 28th Aug 17, 10:24 AM
    • 6,999 Posts
    • 12,608 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    i'd imagine there's NDA's in place to stop them directly taking customers..
    Originally posted by dividendhero
    That sounds very unlikely.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 28th Aug 17, 2:01 PM
    • 10,803 Posts
    • 7,100 Thanks
    bigadaj
    While anyone can recruit staff/agents from the Provvy, i'd imagine there's NDA's in place to stop them directly taking customers..
    Originally posted by dividendhero
    Most have effectively been made redundant, if they were actually considered to be employees, I believe they were typically self employed agents.

    You can include many terms into contracts, employment or not, whether they are valid and if so enforcing them are very different matters.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 29th Aug 17, 9:24 AM
    • 3,460 Posts
    • 5,299 Thanks
    Malthusian
    While anyone can recruit staff/agents from the Provvy, i'd imagine there's NDA's in place to stop them directly taking customers..
    Originally posted by dividendhero
    Which in my limited experience of NDAs in the financial industry are highly unlikely to be meaningfully enforceable if the customer rings up their old agent off their own bat to ask where they should get a loan. Provident doesn't own the customer - not after the customer has paid off their previous short-term loan, anyway.

    For illustration, if an agent moves from Old Firm to New Firm and rings up all their old customers at Old Firm saying "You should move to New Firm with me", Old Firm may be able to enforce their NDA against the agent. However, if it's the customers who ring up the agent - or if Old Firm can't prove it wasn't that way around - Old Firm is much less likely to be able to enforce the NDA. The customers have the right to do business with whomever they like.

    NDAs are a complex area and this isn't to say that an NDA will always be unenforceable or always enforceable in those circumstances, but that is an important variable in how likely it is to be enforceable. And Provident Financial's hold on its customers is even more tenuous than in other financial services areas, given that these are mostly short term loans, and once the loan is paid off it has no ongoing relationship with the customer.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 29th Aug 17, 6:41 PM
    • 10,803 Posts
    • 7,100 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Whilst the loans are short term then the customers and the agents frequently have an ongoing relationship consisting of constantly renewing short term loans, at high interest rates, for years if not decades.

    In most instances the agents are the major point of contact, and are considered friends eventhough the cumulative interest paid will be eye watering.

    The biggest thing in my opinion is how quickly an ignorant management can destroy a business, and get well paid for the privilege of doing so. I suppose the argument is that if you want someone to run your company properly you have to pay them even more money!
    • SALFORDxSOLDIER
    • By SALFORDxSOLDIER 18th Sep 17, 1:18 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    SALFORDxSOLDIER
    Provident never come on time
    Why do provident refuse to pick up payments on time.?
    It has been 7 WEEKS and still no agents to pick up repayments.

    Why do you break your own contracts and expect to gain any respect if you can not even do the basic things like call to your customers and pick up AGREED payments on time.!

    Last edited by SALFORDxSOLDIER; 19-09-2017 at 8:53 AM.
    • fun4everyone
    • By fun4everyone 5th Dec 17, 9:04 AM
    • 850 Posts
    • 1,385 Thanks
    fun4everyone
    Oh dear, Provident taking another hiding today, all this after NW topped up significantly in October.

    https://www.fundstrategy.co.uk/woodford-ups-provident-stake-shares-double/
    • Glen Clark
    • By Glen Clark 5th Dec 17, 10:12 AM
    • 3,919 Posts
    • 2,920 Thanks
    Glen Clark
    Why do provident refuse to pick up payments on time.?
    It has been 7 WEEKS and still no agents to pick up repayments.

    Why do you break your own contracts and expect to gain any respect if you can not even do the basic things like call to your customers and pick up AGREED payments on time.!

    Originally posted by SALFORDxSOLDIER
    I understand its a feature of their new computer system - sending the wrong collectors to the wrong addresses
    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” --Upton Sinclair
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