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  • FIRST POST
    • Torosaurus1
    • By Torosaurus1 21st Aug 17, 11:15 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Torosaurus1
    IPC and BPA confusion - shows both - online appeal error HELP!
    • #1
    • 21st Aug 17, 11:15 PM
    IPC and BPA confusion - shows both - online appeal error HELP! 21st Aug 17 at 11:15 PM
    First time poster, i have read the sticky and started my appeal letter but still have some questions.
    I have received a letter from G24 for overstaying at Crawley County Oak.

    The letter shows Accredited Independent Parking Committee Operator logo on back bottom right corner. Yet when i search on the BPA it shows them, and it shows them on the IPC too. I have no idea which appeal template to use and if i will be able to appeal to POPLA? Also the IPC stands for Community not Committee?

    Secondly, i used a template from this site for 'no nonsense tough approach' however would like someone to check it over before i send it? ** at the bottom of this ** Is it too detailed, should i just respond with the template asking for extra details before making a decision and then send the other one in response? Also, does this count as starting the appeal?

    "I am the keeper of the vehicle and am aware of your purported 'parking charge'. The driver will not be identified. I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

    1. Who is the party that contracted with your company and are they the landowner?
    2. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
    3. Please provide photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract with the driver.
    4. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle.
    5. Please provide proof that the timing of any camera or timer used was synchronised with all other cameras and/or systems & machines......"


    Additionally, when i go to the G24 appeal link (as on their letter) i enter all my details and page redirects to an error page, there is no email address provided so it is impossible to appeal! I'm assuming my only other option is to send by post? Which is a pain as this will cost time and money (I am 7 months pregnant and very ill, plus i don't have a printer any more) when actually it is their error that their website is working incorrectly? I bet their payment area never breaks down...

    I didn't notice any signs when parking, I've not been there before and I do not live anywhere near to go back and have a second look. It is a big shopping complex, where online the individual stores say free parking on their websites, so it didn't occur to me to look. I do not have receipts for my shopping as items were gifts so gave them the receipt, but luckily paid by card in one store so does show a bank statement payment.

    **The letter I was going to upload to their appeal page **

    "G24 Ltd
    PO Box 3320
    Gerrards Cross
    Bucks SL9 8WT

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    Ticket number:
    Vehicle registration number:

    You issued me with a parking ticket on 02/08/2017 but I believe it was unfairly issued. I decline your invitation to name the driver, which is not required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons:

    · Mitigating circumstances
    There are mitigating circumstances to explain why the vehicle was parked where it was and the charge be waived for these reasons.

    1. The driver was taken ill when visiting the complex which meant they had to unexpectedly visit two further stores for the use of their facilities, causing further delay in leaving the complex. The driver is heavily pregnant and suffering from hyperemesis and anaemia in pregnancy. Please see attached evidence from the driver’s doctor as proof of claim. Hyperemesis in pregnancy is extreme sickness, causing severe nausea and vomiting. Anaemia in pregnancy is a deficiency in iron and makes the person very tired and dizzy. Necessary medication must be taken with food, therefore when feeling unwell the driver had to visit another store to purchase something to eat after their planned shop in order to take their medication. The medication can also make them feel very sick which resulted in needing to visit another store to use their toilet facilities to save embarrassment. The driver was unable to return to the vehicle in this time.

    2. The driver was a genuine customer, in attendance with their two year old daughter who requires the use of a child car seat and pushchair. When the driver arrived, they had to take their time to find an appropriate parking space that would allow enough room to safely unload their toddler and retrieve and set up the pushchair from the vehicles boot. This needed to be a space close to the shops the driver was planning to visit due to their current medical conditions. There was not sufficient parent and child parking bays to allow this, therefore the driver had to spend time finding an appropriate alternative space. Due to the confined space it also took longer to do this than is usual.

    3. On return to the vehicle, another had parked closely, therefore there was not enough room to get the toddler and pushchair back into the vehicle quickly. Again this caused further delay to the driver, through no fault of their own and due to lack of parent and child parking bays.

    • There was insufficient signage
    The car park in question has no clear signage to explain what the relevant parking restrictions are. This means no contract can be formed with the landowner and all tickets are issued illegally. There is heavy signage promoting the various shops and eateries, but no clear signage to indicate any parking contract at the entrances of the many stores at the complex. The signs are small, inconspicuous and not at eye level, meaning they are not obvious or easy to read. Furthermore, whilst trying to find an appropriate parking space the driver’s main attention was on the road conditions and any potential hazards.

    · The charge is disproportionate and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
    The amount you have charged is not based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner. The times shown on the parking charge notice are out of peak times and many parking spaces would be available for use for other customers, causing no loss to your company or land owner.


    In this case, the £70 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner given that parking on the site is free of charge to customers. I therefore feel the amount you are asking for is excessive.

    It is surprising given the vast variety of shops and eateries available on the complex, that parking is restricted to 180 minutes. The driver was a genuine visitor to the complex and had travelled a long way from home to visit the area and spend time and money in the many stores available, it is unfair that a customer should be penalised in this way, especially in the mitigating circumstances.

    If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter.

    Yours faithfully,"

    Is this good enough? Which version am I best to use?

    Thank you in advance and sorry if I've broken any posting rules, but have been searching through the forums for hours. I'm new to all this, the worst I've had was a ticket for parking on a yellow line once where my front wheels were touching the line.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 21st Aug 17, 11:19 PM
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    Redx
    • #2
    • 21st Aug 17, 11:19 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Aug 17, 11:19 PM
    G24 appear in the IPC AOS section ONLY !!

    so although they may be corporate members of both trade bodies, they use and pay for the IPC AOS and so you treat it and them using the IPC advice

    use the black text IPC template in the NEWBIES sticky thread, nothing else

    G24 will reject this, so then you are in IGNORE mode

    the IPC keep the same initials but keep changing the words they represent , it may be fishy but is a red herring , ignore it

    in parallel, complain to the landholder and insist on a cancellation, this action is your BEST COURSE OF ACTION

    g24 have 6 years to try a court claim, known as an MCOL (google it)

    there is absolutely NO CHANCE of appealing to POPLA, as they are not in the BPA AOS scheme
    Last edited by Redx; 21-08-2017 at 11:22 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Torosaurus1
    • By Torosaurus1 21st Aug 17, 11:33 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Torosaurus1
    • #3
    • 21st Aug 17, 11:33 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Aug 17, 11:33 PM
    Thank you for clarifying. So dismiss the mitigating circ letter totally?

    Gosh 6 years of nail biting - I don't know if I can handle that lol!

    I haven't been able to tell who the land owner is, had a bit of a google but nothing conclusive.

    I have emailed the store that i visited and asked if there is a way of them cancelling too.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 21st Aug 17, 11:40 PM
    • 16,119 Posts
    • 20,201 Thanks
    Redx
    • #4
    • 21st Aug 17, 11:40 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Aug 17, 11:40 PM
    chances are that if its a retail park its an MA that manages it on behlaf of the landholder

    the Land Registry can tell you who the actual landholder is , for a small fee

    but knowing who the retail park is usually throws up the MA that rents the units out, plus the stores should know who they are renting from

    The MA is likely to have engaged G24

    any story , without revealing the drivers details to anyone , so from "an occupant of the car, or keeper" should go to the MA (or landholder)

    the 6 year maximum rule has been in place now for 44 years in england and wales (5 years maximum in scotland) , for the small claims court (think Judge Rinder)
    Last edited by Redx; 22-08-2017 at 12:03 AM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Redx
    • By Redx 21st Aug 17, 11:53 PM
    • 16,119 Posts
    • 20,201 Thanks
    Redx
    • #5
    • 21st Aug 17, 11:53 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Aug 17, 11:53 PM
    a quick google search finds a pdf with this info embedded

    COUNTY OAK
    RETAIL PARK
    FURTHER INFORMATION
    Please contact either of the joint agents,
    Morgan Williams or Harvey Spack Field.

    on behalf of STANDARD LIFE INVESTMENTS
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Torosaurus1
    • By Torosaurus1 5th Sep 17, 6:29 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Torosaurus1
    • #6
    • 5th Sep 17, 6:29 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Sep 17, 6:29 PM
    Redx,

    I have received this email rejection from them, but nothing in writing via post.

    ......................................

    Thank you for your email.

    You received a parking charge because the driver breached the terms and conditions of parking - and is therefore liable to pay the amount of a parking charge stated on our signage. We also refer you to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act, which sets out the legal basis upon which we may demand payment from the vehicle’s registered keeper if the driver fails to pay us the parking charge.

    The nature of our contract with our client is confidential but will be supplied during any Court proceedings.

    The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("the Act), (Schedule 4), which governs parking on private land, provides a definition for "parking charge" and "adequate notice" of such private parking charges. The relevant sections of Schedule 4 to the Act state :

    “parking charge”

    (a) in the case of a relevant obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract, means a sum in the nature of a fee or charge, and

    (b) in the case of a relevant obligation arising as a result of a trespass or other tort, means a sum in the nature of damages ...

    ... “relevant obligation” means
    (a) an obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract; or
    (b) an obligation arising, in any circumstances where there is no relevant contract, as a result of a trespass or other tort committed by parking the vehicle on the relevant land; ...

    ... The reference in the definition of “parking charge” to a sum in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles

    (when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land).
    For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by:
    ... (b) ... the display of one or more notices which
    (i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and
    (ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land".

    In this instance a parking charge has been issued based on the fact that the driver of your vehicle entered into a contract with us (by the act of parking the vehicle) and our signage (which states the terms and conditions of parking) having been clearly displayed in the car park.

    The Act permits parking charges to be rendered on private land, and the case of Parking Eye Limited v Somerfield Stores Limited [2012] EWCA Civ 1338 (Court of Appeal) held that (taking into account inflation) the parking company was entitled to claim a parking charge of a similar amount to that which we have charged, and therefore your reference to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 is not of any relevance in the context of this parking charge.

    You should also be aware that the amount of our parking charges accords within recommendations by our Trade Associations.

    The photographs provide evidence of the parking event that occurred which show that the driver breached the terms and conditions of parking which were clearly displayed on the signage in the car park. If you wish to receive further documentation, these will be supplied once you make a proper request under the Data Protection Act. The fact that such documentation might be used in any Court proceedings is not a legitimate way to circumvent the Data Protection Act.

    The terms and conditions of the car park are displayed in prominent locations throughout the car park. Any vehicle found in contravention of these terms and conditions is subject to a Contractual Parking Charge Notice. Vehicles entering and exiting the car park are monitored and details of their registration number and time of entry/exit are recorded. Your vehicle was logged entering the car park on the 24 Jul 2017 at 14:52 and exiting 24 Jul 2017 at 18:30. Photographic evidence of the breach of contractual term is provided on your Contractual Parking Charge Notice.

    There are sufficient signs at the entrance to and in prominent locations throughout the car park displaying the terms and conditions. Your are welcome to revisit the site to view the signage, we advise you to adhere to the terms and conditions of parking when visit the site.
    Our signage complies with the Independent Parking Committee's Approved Operator Scheme.

    As we have extensively investigated this Contractual Parking Charge Notice and provided you with the results of our investigation, no further investigation will be undertaken. Any further correspondence may not receive a response, the options below are still open to you.

    You now have one of the following options available to you:

    1. Pay the outstanding Parking Charge. Payment of your Contractual Parking Charge Notice can be made via the payment line: 0333 733 3000 or by sending a cheque or postal order to G24 Limited, PO Box 3320, Gerrards Cross, Buckinghamshire, SL9 8WT.

    2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to The Independent Appeals Service (*link*), The Independent Appeals Service provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the The Independent Appeals Service Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of your first rejection.

    3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

    Customer Services
    G24 Ltd

    To Pay your Parking Charge visit *link* or call our payment line on 0845 452 7777.

    DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, if you wish to continue your appeal visit our appeals website at *link*

    Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

    Registered in England. Company Registration number: 5457196. Registered Company address: Batchworth House, Batchworth Place, Church Street, Rickmansworth, Herts, WD3 1JE.

    This email (and any attachments) is intended solely for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. Any statement or opinions therein are not necessarily those of G24 Ltd unless specifically stated. Any unauthorised use, disclosure or copying is prohibited. If you have received this email in error,please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Security and reliability of the e-mail and attachments are not guaranteed. You must take full responsibility for virus checking.
    Last edited by Torosaurus1; 05-09-2017 at 8:03 PM.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 5th Sep 17, 6:40 PM
    • 10,197 Posts
    • 9,334 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #7
    • 5th Sep 17, 6:40 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Sep 17, 6:40 PM
    Please remove your name from the previous post. PPCs monitor this forum and they would love to home in on who we are giving advice to.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th Sep 17, 7:06 PM
    • 16,119 Posts
    • 20,201 Thanks
    Redx
    • #8
    • 5th Sep 17, 7:06 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Sep 17, 7:06 PM
    remove the name and pcn number from the above rejection from G24

    what they failed to tell you is that you also have the option to IGNORE G24 AND THEIR DEBT COLLECTORS FOR THE NEXT 6 YEARS ( which is their option 3) )

    the NEWBIES sticky thread tells you about the IPC members , the IAS kangaroo court and ignoring debt letters

    I did tell you this would happen in my earlier reply , and what to do
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Sep 17, 7:12 PM
    • 50,789 Posts
    • 64,194 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 5th Sep 17, 7:12 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Sep 17, 7:12 PM
    You are at the stage where everyone ignores IPC firms; that's made clear in the NEWBIES thread already. And Redx told you this:

    G24 will reject this, so then you are in IGNORE mode
    ...so we don't need to see that template letter of drivel, or any other updates except when you tell us you've got the retailer Store Manger(s) or County Oak's Management, to cancel it.

    Like everyone does v G24 on here.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Sep 17, 7:13 PM
    • 15,005 Posts
    • 23,583 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Gosh 6 years of nail biting - I don't know if I can handle that lol!
    Well you need to urgently contact the MA and C-O-M-P-L-A-I-N.

    Have you yet done so - Redx provided you with the leads? That's the only way to get rid of this now (short of paying, which no one here will recommend!).

    a quick google search finds a pdf with this info embedded

    COUNTY OAK
    RETAIL PARK
    FURTHER INFORMATION
    Please contact either of the joint agents,
    Morgan Williams or Harvey Spack Field.

    on behalf of STANDARD LIFE INVESTMENTS
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Torosaurus1
    • By Torosaurus1 5th Sep 17, 8:27 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Torosaurus1
    I had found the same information as Redx, however to me it looked as though they'd sold the land not that they were the land owners. I have emailed both the companies, however await a response.

    I have even emailed the stores that were visited at the retail park, but have had no reply at all.

    I appreciate all the help and I am not asking anyone to do it all for me, but I have researched and looked into this before posting.

    This is the first time I have been in a situation like this and I am trying to explore every avenue. However it is very challenging when these companies can do as they wish and the land owners and stores are unwilling to help. I imagine they receive thousands of complaints and mine will not be of a priority.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th Sep 17, 8:31 PM
    • 16,119 Posts
    • 20,201 Thanks
    Redx
    agreed

    so if you wish to know who owns the land , pay the LAND REGISTRY a few quid and they will tell you

    nobody said it would be easy , and yes they do get away with a lot of stuff we dont like , ask BARRY BEAVIS as he spent 2 years fighting them all in various courts

    complain to your MP and ask him or her to support the private members bill going through parliament

    this is why we encourage people like yourself to be more proactive , instead of being reactive
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Sep 17, 8:44 PM
    • 50,789 Posts
    • 64,194 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Usually people go into the Store in person, with the PCN (and any receipt) and publicly but politely, at the CS desk, fairly loudly ask the Manager to cancel it or the family will never darken their doors again.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 5th Sep 17, 8:49 PM
    • 2,341 Posts
    • 2,850 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    while you await the replies ....

    try leaving poor / bad feedback on tripadvisor / faceace and the like ...

    and as mentioned ...

    It may help to try your MP

    this is a copy of a post by Bargepole ....

    "Some action at last:

    http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html

    This Private Member's Bill has Government and cross-party support, and stands a good chance of making it into statute.

    The full text of the clauses will be published nearer the date of the second reading, but my sources tell me it's something we should support.

    Now would be a good time to write to your MP urging them to support it."

    let here know that there have been many complaints about this car park scam

    he/ she may well help intervene

    good luck

    Ralph
    • Torosaurus1
    • By Torosaurus1 11th Oct 17, 3:22 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Torosaurus1
    Some good advice, thank you!!

    I have finally received a reply, they have said if i send in the bank statement they will see to it that it is cancelled. This is through one of the joint landowners.

    My question now, if i omit my personal details on the bank statement will they say it doesn't show proof as could be from anyone? But at the same time, giving my bank statement un-redacted will have my name and address, thus showing G24 who the driver was?

    Sorry to ask yet another question!!!!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 11th Oct 17, 3:33 PM
    • 16,119 Posts
    • 20,201 Thanks
    Redx
    redact it , scan it or take a pic , and email it through , saying the unredacted original will be shown to a judge in court if it gets that far

    you can leave the address on, they already have that
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 11th Oct 17, 4:09 PM
    • 6,183 Posts
    • 7,915 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Do as Redx says ....... if they don't like it, it's a simple case
    of turning up in court to discover you are telling the truth
    A judge will tell them
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Oct 17, 5:59 PM
    • 15,005 Posts
    • 23,583 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    You need to do everything you can to get this killed off now, otherwise you will be saddled with up to 6 years of crap. If the landowner is basically telling G24, that on receipt of a bank statement showing proof of your on-site transactions they are to cancel it, I wouldn’t make it too easy for them to turn around and say the lack of details means they won’t do so.

    They already have your name and address, seeing it again on a bank statement doesn’t make you the driver. Anyone could have been driving your car with you as a passenger, you went into the shop, made the purchase which now shows on your statement. So there is no way that a legitimate inference about who the driver was could be possibly made. And in any event, it’s only G24, hardly a PPC to be overly concerned about. Never done a court case in their life. With the landowner already backing you up, there’s no way in the world that G24 will be popping their court cherry with your case!

    By all means redact your bank account number and sort code. Redact any other transactions on the statement that do not apply to the specific parking event.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Torosaurus1
    • By Torosaurus1 16th Oct 17, 10:44 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Torosaurus1
    Well I sent a redacted copy and they accepted that, today the landowners secretary has emailed to say it has been waived and they will send me a confirmation letter! Fingers crossed this is the end of it!
    Can't thank you enough for all your help!
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Oct 17, 10:55 AM
    • 40,416 Posts
    • 80,738 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Well I sent a redacted copy and they accepted that, today the landowners secretary has emailed to say it has been waived and they will send me a confirmation letter! Fingers crossed this is the end of it!
    Can't thank you enough for all your help!
    Originally posted by Torosaurus1
    Well done, but it is not over until G24 say it is over. However, they would be stupid to try court with a landowner cancellation in your evidence pack.

    If you don't hear anything from G24 in the next week or so, or they try to pursue this further, send them a copy of the cancellation from the landowner and ask them to cease and desist.

    Make sure you complain to your MP that genuine customers are being penalised by these unregulated scammers, and you expect him/her to support the private members bill mentioned earlier, or you and your family will be voting for another party that actually cares about this.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
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