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  • FIRST POST
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th Aug 17, 10:57 AM
    • 81Posts
    • 29Thanks
    DD1A
    After just winning a POPLA!
    • #1
    • 19th Aug 17, 10:57 AM
    After just winning a POPLA! 19th Aug 17 at 10:57 AM
    I thought we got away from these crooks for a while but now again. Pulled into a just recently changed over to anpr parking spot where it used to be Pay and Display. We pulled up for 15 car was fully occupied didn't get out as we were looking at the map and deciding where to go next on our weekend adventure. Week and half later this comes through the door!

    Will just appealing with his story win it?

    Last edited by DD1A; 19-08-2017 at 11:01 AM.
Page 1
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 19th Aug 17, 11:04 AM
    • 2,502 Posts
    • 3,749 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #2
    • 19th Aug 17, 11:04 AM
    • #2
    • 19th Aug 17, 11:04 AM
    No it won't!
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th Aug 17, 12:01 PM
    • 15,005 Posts
    • 23,583 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 19th Aug 17, 12:01 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Aug 17, 12:01 PM
    If you've recently won at POPLA I would have thought you would know that mitigation (telling the story of *wot appened*) will not win anything. In fact in your case, putting that to POPLA would guarantee you losing.

    Back to base 1 then. NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 and get the blue text appeal off to ECP to get your POPLA code. Then I'm sure you'll know what to do?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th Aug 17, 12:29 PM
    • 15,005 Posts
    • 23,583 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 19th Aug 17, 12:29 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Aug 17, 12:29 PM
    Just looked back over your previous thread where there was a good deal of input from regulars. In the last post on the thread, Coupon-mad, who made the greatest input, drafting many letters to the BPA for you, asked you to simply do this:

    Yes please post POPLA's reply, breaking it up into small paragraphs, but post it in the POPLA Decisions thread with a link to this original thread, and state which PPC you beat (as the Decision doesn't mention the PPC).
    I can't find any response from you in acknowledgement of the significant help given.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th Aug 17, 3:14 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    DD1A
    • #5
    • 19th Aug 17, 3:14 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Aug 17, 3:14 PM
    Yes I totally agree I have been bombarded with work and family things and completely forgot now I'm back from work I will get back to my original thread and post the POPLA reply etc in correct area
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th Aug 17, 3:50 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    DD1A
    • #6
    • 19th Aug 17, 3:50 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Aug 17, 3:50 PM
    I'm guessing another trip to the carpark obviously going in by foot to scope out the site and it's signage etc would be beneficial as I'm unsure of what weak point to target like i did on the last case?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Aug 17, 6:52 PM
    • 50,789 Posts
    • 64,197 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 19th Aug 17, 6:52 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Aug 17, 6:52 PM
    Yes, photos from careful angles are what the PPCs rely on, so do the same, in your favour. Signs hidden by vans or foliage.

    Or a video from the passenger seat of the lack of signs when a car parks in a certain place (choose to highlight the worst-signed place, seeing as ANPR evidence shows no evidence of where the car was parked).

    Does not have to be where the car was actually parked, after all, the keeper has no idea!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 25-08-2017 at 11:10 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 23rd Aug 17, 1:58 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    DD1A
    • #8
    • 23rd Aug 17, 1:58 PM
    • #8
    • 23rd Aug 17, 1:58 PM
    Hi CM thanks again for your help on the last one and again appreciate your input along with everyone else on this forum. Does this pcn appeal (as it's anpr) need to be submitted 26 days like windscreen notice or just submit straight away with blue text from noob page?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 23rd Aug 17, 2:50 PM
    • 582 Posts
    • 705 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #9
    • 23rd Aug 17, 2:50 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Aug 17, 2:50 PM
    As you already have a NtK, the time to appeal of 26 days isnt important - the entire point of appealing at 26 days from a NtD is to reduce the chances of them sending out a NtK.

    Just appeal within timescales.
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 24th Aug 17, 11:36 AM
    • 81 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    DD1A
    Do these anpr carparks have a grace period say for example you pulled in to turn around and drive out or they just issue a pcn as no ticket was purchased?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 24th Aug 17, 11:55 AM
    • 15,005 Posts
    • 23,583 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Do these anpr carparks have a grace period say for example you pulled in to turn around and drive out or they just issue a pcn as no ticket was purchased?
    Originally posted by DD1A
    Did the Wild West have any rules? Self regulation can so easily be ignored, sharp practices, even anarchy follow.

    The simple reply to your question - yes, in theory!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 24th Aug 17, 1:47 PM
    • 2,502 Posts
    • 3,749 Thanks
    fisherjim
    Do these anpr carparks have a grace period say for example you pulled in to turn around and drive out or they just issue a pcn as no ticket was purchased?
    Originally posted by DD1A
    All contained in the BPA COP:

    http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS_Code_of_Practice_October_2015_update_V6..pdf
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 25th Aug 17, 10:10 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    DD1A
    No 1 first stage of appeal done acknowledgment received. Thanks for the useful info fisher, I have a feeling the ecp anpr pcn is going to be a very tough May near impossible to win if they tick all the boxes on that code of practice on their site. Going to take a trip back down there over the weekend to see if some evidence can be gathered.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Aug 17, 11:15 PM
    • 50,789 Posts
    • 64,197 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Evidence about lack of signage in any old dark corner could win the day. Equally, we often beat ECP on the fact they supply landowner contracts with a lack of info. This one was funny:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5686599&page=2

    Even if it is lost at POPLA, ECP are ignorable. I've ignored them myself; nothing happened.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 26th Sep 17, 9:02 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    DD1A
    Hello back again after waiting nearly the 35 days they stated ecp would be in touch, they wouldn’t let anyone slip through the net would they.

    The reply was as followed, they did attached a poor quality picture of the carparks t&c sign at the bottom of the Pdf as well

    Thank you for your letter of appeal. The details of the Parking Charge Notice are as follows: Parking Charge Notice Number: 88——— Date of Issue: 06/08/2017 Vehicle Registration Mark: ———— Time of Issue: —— Car Park: Wish Street - Rye Breach of Terms and Conditions: No valid pay and display/permit was purchased
    Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons:  The car park is operated by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR).
     Cameras capture an image of vehicles entering and leaving the car park and calculate their length of stay on site.
     When purchasing a pay and display ticket, you must enter the correct vehicle registration number (VRM) and this information is directed to the camera system.
     I can confirm that no pay and display ticket matching your VRM was purchased at the time of the terms and conditions.
     The signage is clear, a valid pay and display ticket must be purchased for the full duration of your stay on the car park.
     I can confirm the parking charge notice was issued correctly and remains payable.
     With regards to the reference to “Pre-Estimate of Loss/breach of consumer contracts 1999.” Please be advised that the Supreme Court has made judgement (04/11/15) that clearly sets out the issue of parking charge notices on private land (law of contract applies) and in particular pre-estimate of loss. The parking charge notice is enforceable on the basis that it protected a legitimate interest when the driver failed to adhere to the terms and conditions and was not extravagant, exorbitant nor unconscionable.
    The parking charge is not an unenforceable penalty and does not breach the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.
     - It’s the driver’s responsibility to check the signage prior to leaving the vehicle on site.
     - Contract Law Applies Please make payment of the discounted amount of £40.00 by visiting our website at www.eurocarparks.com. Please note there is a £1.50 handling charge for credit and debit card payments. Alternatively make your cheque payable to Euro Car Parks Limited (to include a £2.50 handling charge for cheque processing) and post to Euro Car Parks Ltd, 30 Dorset Square, London, NW1 6QJ, quoting the PCN number on the reverse of the cheque. Payment can also be made using our automated telephone service on 020 3553 4559 (no handling charge is applicable). This amount is now due and the charge will be held for 14 days to allow time to make the payment. If payment is not received by this time the charge will increase to £80.00 (plus applicable handling fee). You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.
    You can make an appeal to The Independent Appeals Service (POPLA) within 28 days online at www.popla.co.uk with the following reference number ————.
    Alternatively, if you wish to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service by post a copy of the appeal application can be sent at your request. Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case the ability to pay the parking charge at the reduced rate will be at an end. If you opt to pay the parking charge notice you will be unable to appeal to POPLA. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you. By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.
    Yours sincerely
    PCN Coordinator Parking Charge Notice Department
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Sep 17, 10:10 PM
    • 50,789 Posts
    • 64,197 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Right, as expected, so please show us your draft POPLA appeal like everyone does, at this stage.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 29th Sep 17, 8:04 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    DD1A
    CM - say this case does not win this time at popla would the payment then be at the higher £80 rate?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Sep 17, 8:06 PM
    • 50,789 Posts
    • 64,197 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Where do you see any posters whatsoever, paying if they lose at POPLA? No-one PAYS!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 6th Oct 17, 11:39 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    DD1A
    We weent for a little trip the other day and the signange is dreadful I took a load of pictures which I will put together for the popla and repost. Any key pointers I should put across other than the obvious in clear signage
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/152664254@N06/shares/458k15
    Last edited by DD1A; 07-10-2017 at 6:53 AM.
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 7th Oct 17, 8:45 AM
    • 26,058 Posts
    • 33,001 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    Hope you enjoyed the fish and chips.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
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