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  • FIRST POST
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 17th Aug 17, 5:14 PM
    • 68Posts
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    Jhpt
    So I'm going to court...
    • #1
    • 17th Aug 17, 5:14 PM
    So I'm going to court... 17th Aug 17 at 5:14 PM
    So looks like I'm one of the chosen few who make it all the way through to court..

    Looking for any input please! I've read through the forums but would really appreciate any help anybody can offer.

    To give you a timeline of events;

    - Ticketed on 8/1/17 in my residents car park (2 spaces as part of my monthly rental agreement) as my pass had slipped from my dashboard
    I stupidly believed they'd waive the ticket if presented with evidence of my right to park - I wrote to them (giving them my address.. DOH!) with a photocopy of my residents parking permit. Received a letter stating that I hadn't displayed my pass and was therefore not exempt from paying a fine (£60 rising to £100) I responded stating I would NOT be paying and any further correspondence was to be through my lawyer
    - 20/2/17 first letter now stating I owed £100
    - 5/4/17 letter from "Debt Recovery Plus Ltd (DRP)" stating a charge of £149.00 now owed (no reasoning for the 49 increase)
    - 20/4/17 2nd letter from DRP re-iterating £149.00 owed "If you haven't paid in full or made arrangements to pay by 4/5/17 we'll pass your file to our client with a recommendation that they take court action against you"
    - 05/5/17 3rd letter from DRP now stating a final settlement offer of £126.65 - no explanation of exactly how they've calculated this. "If you haven't paid the reduced amount by 19/5/17, our client will withdraw the offer. This means the amount due will go back to the full amount of £149.00.."
    - 5/6/17 1st letter from Gladstones Solicitors claiming £149
    - 25/7/17 2nd letter from Gladstones solicitors claiming £160 - no explanation included as to the rise of £11.
    - 17/8/17 TODAY receive a letter from the court (dated 14/8/17) to let me know I was being taken to court for £241.53 (166.53 + 25 court fee + 50 legal representatives)

    Now my reasons why I feel this ticket is unfair;
    1) As part of my tenancy agreement I have a right to park in two parking spaces
    2) The signage displayed states the parking company are a member of the BPA (They are NOT - they are IPC) - confusing myself as to whether they are a genuine company (my search of the BPA website showed nothing...) and of course confusing my decision of who to appeal the ticket too..
    3) This is a residents car park, managed to my knowledge by the residents association - do THEY have the right to ticket on their behalf or do they need written permission from the land owner?
    4) The way the fees have been increased 60-100-149-126.65-149-160 is confusing and has left me failing to understand the ongoing process
    5) I communicated I would only discuss correspondence further through my solicitors - they have failed to do so.

    Any advice here guys? Thanks so much in advance!
    Last edited by Jhpt; 17-08-2017 at 5:22 PM.
Page 7
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 29th Nov 17, 3:55 PM
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    Loadsofchildren123
    That order is flagging up unreasonable costs - they're saying that you can apply for these. What the order says is that if they don't issue the application, then the claim is dismissed and:


    the Defendant shall have permission to apply (with a statement of reason and amount) for costs (attention being drawn to Civil Procedure Rule 27.14). If the Claimant does not comply then the Court will consider whether the application is heard before or at the Small Claims Hearing.


    So if no application, you write in with a statement of costs, a letter explaining all the ways they've behaved badly, breaching rules etc, and ask for a costs order. The court may set a date, or may tell you to come along to the original trial date to argue it out. You may want to ask the court to deal with the application on paper rather than requiring a hearing (although it's fairly likely CEL won't want to come to the hearing just to talk about costs and so it may be better just to chance it and turn up and argue the point). Confirm that you have sent a copy of the statement of costs and your letter to the PPC so the court knows you've put them on notice.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 6th Dec 17, 11:57 AM
    • 68 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Jhpt
    Perfect - thanks again for all your responses as ever.

    As yet - received absolutely nothing from anybody. Fingers crossed this continues....
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 6th Dec 17, 12:14 PM
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    Loadsofchildren123
    Have you sent your stuff to them (order says you have to do that by 8 December I think). Make sure you do.
    In the hope that they will be disorganised, be vague in the covering letter.
    Just say "Dear Sirs,
    Please find enclosed my correspondence with the court.
    Yours faithfully"
    And get a certificate of postage (don't send registered, send it in the normal way but go to the PO and ask for a certificate).
    Write to the court just to confirm that you have sent it to them as per the order, and enclose a copy of your letter so that this is on the court file if 15 Dec comes and goes with no action.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 6th Dec 17, 1:18 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Jhpt
    Have you sent your stuff to them (order says you have to do that by 8 December I think). Make sure you do.
    In the hope that they will be disorganised, be vague in the covering letter.
    Just say "Dear Sirs,
    Please find enclosed my correspondence with the court.
    Yours faithfully"
    And get a certificate of postage (don't send registered, send it in the normal way but go to the PO and ask for a certificate).
    Write to the court just to confirm that you have sent it to them as per the order, and enclose a copy of your letter so that this is on the court file if 15 Dec comes and goes with no action.
    Originally posted by Loadsofchildren123
    I sent electronically to both Court and Claimant - with vague-ish covering letter and prior communications in attached word document. Court were included in the email and confirmed that they received communication - email address used for Claimant was that included on Claim form
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 6th Dec 17, 6:20 PM
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    Loadsofchildren123
    Ok just wait til after the 15th then phone the court. Maybe wait until the Tuesday (15th is a Friday)
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 18th Dec 17, 10:45 AM
    • 68 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Jhpt
    Hello guys - update time!

    So I didn't receive the documents from the Claimant until the 16th - the day AFTER the deadline. For me, despite it only being a day late, this is still late (and late for the extension) and therefore, this breaches the order? The envelope is franked on 15/12 (which for me means it's postal date). I recieved nothing via email despite me emailing them 2x so they had my electronic contact details too.

    Am I correct in thinking that "late is late" and that therefore the case is now "thrown out"?

    If so, can anybody advise on the letter to court (copying the Claimant in - learnt my lesson!) Stating communication from Claimant is late, therefore should be struck out as per the Judge's last communication, and also with my claims (unreasonable behaviour - missing two deadlines - and the WS they've provided ignores half of the points I raised anyway!)

    Thanks again
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 18th Dec 17, 11:22 AM
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    nosferatu1001
    Yes, ask the court to strike the claim as the claimant did not comply with the order of x date , as the envelope shows it was not franked until the deadline and therefore could not be served in time.
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 18th Dec 17, 11:41 AM
    • 68 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Jhpt
    Yes, ask the court to strike the claim as the claimant did not comply with the order of x date , as the envelope shows it was not franked until the deadline and therefore could not be served in time.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Does this look OK?

    __________________________________________________ _________________________

    To whom it may concern,

    My name is XXXXX, I am Defendant in Claim number XXXXXX.

    I am writing to you today to request that Claim number XXXXXXX is struck out - Judge XXXX stated on XX/XX/XXXX that if the Claimant's Witness Statement and Exhibits had not been served to myself by the 15/12/2017 then the court was to be struck out, and gave me permission to apply for costs. I can confirm that I had NOT received anything from the Claimant by the 15/12/2017 and due to this I respectfully request that the order of XX/XX/XXXX is enforced and the Claim struck out.

    Furthermore, I would like to apply for costs - both those accumulated whilst defending this claim and whilst considering Claimant's unreasonable behaviour throughout the proceedings (as per Civil Procedure Rule 27.14)

    INSERT LIST OF WHY/HOW CLAIMANT HAS BEHAVED UNREASONABLY.



    Does tthat sound OK?

    Thanks everybody once again.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 18th Dec 17, 11:49 AM
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    nosferatu1001
    And you must of course list the costs you are looking to claim - £19 per hour or part
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 18th Dec 17, 11:53 AM
    • 68 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Jhpt
    And you must of course list the costs you are looking to claim - £19 per hour or part
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Perfect. I did have a question about this.

    So far I've got 3hours at £19p/h. Admittedly I've spent a huge amount of time on this - which is probably down to me being slightly incompetent - but is there a ceiling on how long I can claim for? Realistically, it's probably absorbed at least 15-20 hours over the past year.

    On a seperate note - as a business owner, I generally charge £60 p/h for my time and I've had to reduce my clinical hours on a few occasions - and turn down appointments - as part of this. If I can provide the email proof or have a signed statement from a patient showing this - can I claim for loss of earnings too?

    I'm was looking at claiming £25 for stationary/postage - posting 1kg of paper to both the court and Claimant isn't cheap! Is there a top price here?

    Sorry to ask stupid questions - Google has failed me and I can't find any reputable source for what is claim-able!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Dec 17, 12:14 PM
    • 15,967 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    Loss of earnings capped @ £95. Providing proof of earnings to the court is advised.

    Loadsofchildren123 has provided a specimen costs schedule which I think is linked via the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2. If it’s not there, do a search under her username.

    EDITED TO ADD - just read nosferatu’s following post and it reminds me of the possibility of the higher rate, although I’ve seen far more £95 awarded than 50% of the band D fee earner rates. But if you don’t ask .........
    Last edited by Umkomaas; Today at 12:22 PM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 18th Dec 17, 12:16 PM
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    nosferatu1001
    Disbursement’s are at actual cost. Provide receipts - copies!

    Time
    You can try for a higher rate, some courts have suggested they’d accept 50% of a band D fee earner as costs - around £60 an hour. Just check up on this for yourself.
    Itemise your time # you should have found some examples on here of costs schedules. Split it down to research , writing defence, writing ws etc. All the stages.
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 18th Dec 17, 1:22 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Jhpt
    Well sounds like we are almost there! If anybody could spare a minute to view either my letter to court (copy to Claimant!!!) and my costs I'd be most grateful.

    Letter to Court
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ul48qvqxdk9xnbr/GLADSTONES%20AGAIN%20FAIL%20TO%20PROVIDE%20WS%2022 .docx?dl=0

    Costs Schedule
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/0cxchkfceh98qbb/COSTS%20SCHEDULE.docx?dl=0

    Thank yoU!
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 18th Dec 17, 2:28 PM
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    Loadsofchildren123
    para 3: breached the Pre-Action Practice Direction by failing to explain the basis of the claim or to provide any documents in relation to it 9in breach of paragraphs 3, 6(a) and 6(c)) and then CPR Rule 16.4 by failing to.....


    Para 7: add at the end "Professional Code of Conduct"


    Costs:
    you've got a far better chance if you break it all down - look at the link in the newbies thread and at Sassii's thread which has a precedent (I think newbies links to it).


    First of all make five categories:
    Letters
    Phone calls
    Drafting/reading documents
    Research
    Other


    Under letters:
    x letters to/from Claimant.............. x minutes/hours
    x letters to/from Court....................x minutes/hours
    Break each hour into 10 units of 6 minutes.


    Under telephone: same thing


    Under documents:
    2 sub-categories: drafting and reading
    Drafting:
    AoS
    Defence
    Directions Questionnaire
    Witness Statement (including compiling exhibit)
    D's bundle
    And put next to each individual one the time it took


    Reading:
    list each of the C's documents and all court orders, list them individually then allow time for reading each of them


    Research:
    Researching court rules, law and case law: and give yourself whatever you think is reasonable for this.


    Other
    I'd include there all the trips to the post office, so say
    5 trips to post office (posting pleadings and correspondence) at x minutes per trip..................x hours/minutes


    Then add up the time under each heading, then do a grand total at the end.


    If you break it all down between each specific activity you can justify more hours. It all adds up and the more you break it down the more reasonable it looks.


    If you are seeking £60 you need to justify it with the rule that allows you to recover more than £95 and by explaining that you earn £60 per hour and that you turned work away in order to defend the case properly - see nos's post.


    Then put in a heading "Disbursements" and include there a list of every time you posted anything, what it was, who to, and what it cost, and attach the receipts.
    You can try adding a notional amount for stationery and printing ink, but I'd add how many pages approximately it was that you had to print to add weight to this being awarded.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 18th Dec 17, 2:31 PM
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    Loadsofchildren123
    Your order said this:


    2. Unless the Claimant issues and a copy on the Defendant by 4pm on 15 December 2017, an application for an extension of time for its evidence including copies of the Claimant's evidence in accordance with Paragraph 2 of the order of 9 October 2017 (To include full responses to the Defendan'ts evidence), then the claim shall be dismissed





    And does their WS contain a full response to your evidence? That may be another breach. You need to include reference to this in your costs application: that they failed to serve their WS on time and the court had to make an "unless" order.

    Have they issued an application or not? They were supposed to do more than just send you the WS - they were supposed to issue an application and send you a copy on 15th. Can you call the court and find out? Your letter needs to say that no application has been received.


    I think if they are a day late in posting it then the court may well allow it, it depends very much on which judge your letter is put in front of.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 18th Dec 17, 2:58 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Jhpt
    para 3: breached the Pre-Action Practice Direction by failing to explain the basis of the claim or to provide any documents in relation to it 9in breach of paragraphs 3, 6(a) and 6(c)) and then CPR Rule 16.4 by failing to.....


    Para 7: add at the end "Professional Code of Conduct"


    Costs:
    you've got a far better chance if you break it all down - look at the link in the newbies thread and at Sassii's thread which has a precedent (I think newbies links to it).


    First of all make five categories:
    Letters
    Phone calls
    Drafting/reading documents
    Research
    Other


    Under letters:
    x letters to/from Claimant.............. x minutes/hours
    x letters to/from Court....................x minutes/hours
    Break each hour into 10 units of 6 minutes.


    Under telephone: same thing


    Under documents:
    2 sub-categories: drafting and reading
    Drafting:
    AoS
    Defence
    Directions Questionnaire
    Witness Statement (including compiling exhibit)
    D's bundle
    And put next to each individual one the time it took


    Reading:
    list each of the C's documents and all court orders, list them individually then allow time for reading each of them


    Research:
    Researching court rules, law and case law: and give yourself whatever you think is reasonable for this.


    Other
    I'd include there all the trips to the post office, so say
    5 trips to post office (posting pleadings and correspondence) at x minutes per trip..................x hours/minutes


    Then add up the time under each heading, then do a grand total at the end.


    If you break it all down between each specific activity you can justify more hours. It all adds up and the more you break it down the more reasonable it looks.


    If you are seeking £60 you need to justify it with the rule that allows you to recover more than £95 and by explaining that you earn £60 per hour and that you turned work away in order to defend the case properly - see nos's post.


    Then put in a heading "Disbursements" and include there a list of every time you posted anything, what it was, who to, and what it cost, and attach the receipts.
    You can try adding a notional amount for stationery and printing ink, but I'd add how many pages approximately it was that you had to print to add weight to this being awarded.
    Originally posted by Loadsofchildren123
    Perfect - thank you! I'll crack on with this, this afternoon and get it sent out tomorrow.

    Your order said this:


    2. Unless the Claimant issues and a copy on the Defendant by 4pm on 15 December 2017, an application for an extension of time for its evidence including copies of the Claimant's evidence in accordance with Paragraph 2 of the order of 9 October 2017 (To include full responses to the Defendan'ts evidence), then the claim shall be dismissed





    And does their WS contain a full response to your evidence? That may be another breach. You need to include reference to this in your costs application: that they failed to serve their WS on time and the court had to make an "unless" order.

    Have they issued an application or not? They were supposed to do more than just send you the WS - they were supposed to issue an application and send you a copy on 15th. Can you call the court and find out? Your letter needs to say that no application has been received.


    I think if they are a day late in posting it then the court may well allow it, it depends very much on which judge your letter is put in front of.
    Originally posted by Loadsofchildren123
    the WS does not contain a full response - I'll include this now too.
    I personally haven't recieved an application byut I was unsure as to whether I would or this was just to the court - will phone the court now to find out!
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 18th Dec 17, 3:09 PM
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    Loadsofchildren123
    The order says they had to send it to you too:
    Unless the Claimant issues and a copy on the Defendant by 4pm on 15 December 2017, an application
    You could phone the court to see if they have issued it. It may well be, as you say, that they have sent it to the court, but not you - but this isn't what the order actually says. The word "serves" has been inadvertently left out of the first line (it should say "issues and serves a copy....") but I don't think that matters one bit.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 18th Dec 17, 4:44 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Jhpt
    The order says they had to send it to you too:
    Unless the Claimant issues and a copy on the Defendant by 4pm on 15 December 2017, an application
    You could phone the court to see if they have issued it. It may well be, as you say, that they have sent it to the court, but not you - but this isn't what the order actually says. The word "serves" has been inadvertently left out of the first line (it should say "issues and serves a copy....") but I don't think that matters one bit.
    Originally posted by Loadsofchildren123
    EXCELLENT. Once again - just a quick thank you to everybody who has contributed to this. I've taken all your advice and have now edited both the letter to the court (copy to the Claimant) and the costs schedule - however I'm struggling to find the relevant law which allows you to claim loss of earnings over £95? All I can find is practice direction 27 -

    "(1) for the loss of earnings or loss of leave of each party or witness due to attending a hearing or staying away from home for the purpose of attending a hearing, a sum not exceeding £95 per day for each person, and"
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