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  • FIRST POST
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 17th Aug 17, 5:14 PM
    • 46Posts
    • 15Thanks
    Jhpt
    So I'm going to court...
    • #1
    • 17th Aug 17, 5:14 PM
    So I'm going to court... 17th Aug 17 at 5:14 PM
    So looks like I'm one of the chosen few who make it all the way through to court..

    Looking for any input please! I've read through the forums but would really appreciate any help anybody can offer.

    To give you a timeline of events;

    - Ticketed on 8/1/17 in my residents car park (2 spaces as part of my monthly rental agreement) as my pass had slipped from my dashboard
    I stupidly believed they'd waive the ticket if presented with evidence of my right to park - I wrote to them (giving them my address.. DOH!) with a photocopy of my residents parking permit. Received a letter stating that I hadn't displayed my pass and was therefore not exempt from paying a fine (£60 rising to £100) I responded stating I would NOT be paying and any further correspondence was to be through my lawyer
    - 20/2/17 first letter now stating I owed £100
    - 5/4/17 letter from "Debt Recovery Plus Ltd (DRP)" stating a charge of £149.00 now owed (no reasoning for the 49 increase)
    - 20/4/17 2nd letter from DRP re-iterating £149.00 owed "If you haven't paid in full or made arrangements to pay by 4/5/17 we'll pass your file to our client with a recommendation that they take court action against you"
    - 05/5/17 3rd letter from DRP now stating a final settlement offer of £126.65 - no explanation of exactly how they've calculated this. "If you haven't paid the reduced amount by 19/5/17, our client will withdraw the offer. This means the amount due will go back to the full amount of £149.00.."
    - 5/6/17 1st letter from Gladstones Solicitors claiming £149
    - 25/7/17 2nd letter from Gladstones solicitors claiming £160 - no explanation included as to the rise of £11.
    - 17/8/17 TODAY receive a letter from the court (dated 14/8/17) to let me know I was being taken to court for £241.53 (166.53 + 25 court fee + 50 legal representatives)

    Now my reasons why I feel this ticket is unfair;
    1) As part of my tenancy agreement I have a right to park in two parking spaces
    2) The signage displayed states the parking company are a member of the BPA (They are NOT - they are IPC) - confusing myself as to whether they are a genuine company (my search of the BPA website showed nothing...) and of course confusing my decision of who to appeal the ticket too..
    3) This is a residents car park, managed to my knowledge by the residents association - do THEY have the right to ticket on their behalf or do they need written permission from the land owner?
    4) The way the fees have been increased 60-100-149-126.65-149-160 is confusing and has left me failing to understand the ongoing process
    5) I communicated I would only discuss correspondence further through my solicitors - they have failed to do so.

    Any advice here guys? Thanks so much in advance!
    Last edited by Jhpt; 17-08-2017 at 5:22 PM.
Page 3
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 24th Aug 17, 2:04 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Jhpt
    Hi Emily,

    Hope I can help as I sent mine across yesterday.

    I sent mine electronically via email (file as PDF rather than word) and also by recorded delivery.

    My electronic copy I printed, signed by hand then scanned back in (saved as PDF) and sent that way. I imagine it needs a real signature as opposed to an electronic one.
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 6th Sep 17, 8:02 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Jhpt
    Hello all

    Received a letter from Gladstones today - our client wants to press ahead etc with a copy of their DQ - am I awaiting the Courts to send me info re: DQ? Or do I print and fill this out independently?

    They've asked for this to be heard on paper but I plan on requesting a face-face hearing. They've also asked for this to be in the Claimant's home court; again I plan on disputing this.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 6th Sep 17, 8:23 PM
    • 2,580 Posts
    • 3,839 Thanks
    fisherjim
    Hello all

    Received a letter from Gladstones today - our client wants to press ahead etc with a copy of their DQ - am I awaiting the Courts to send me info re: DQ? Or do I print and fill this out independently?

    They've asked for this to be heard on paper but I plan on requesting a face-face hearing. They've also asked for this to be in the Claimant's home court; again I plan on disputing this.
    Originally posted by Jhpt
    Don't let the scamming muppets get there own way, the ball is in your court!
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Sep 17, 8:23 PM
    • 7,377 Posts
    • 6,421 Thanks
    The Deep
    If you have time, consider a counter claim for interference with your right to quiet enjoyment, trespass, and/or wrongly using your data. The beauty of a counter claim is that they cannot disengage at the last minute, once you have done all the work, and it costs them money.
    Last edited by The Deep; 07-09-2017 at 11:11 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Sep 17, 1:39 AM
    • 51,473 Posts
    • 65,061 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hello all

    Received a letter from Gladstones today - our client wants to press ahead etc with a copy of their DQ - am I awaiting the Courts to send me info re: DQ? Or do I print and fill this out independently?

    They've asked for this to be heard on paper but I plan on requesting a face-face hearing. They've also asked for this to be in the Claimant's home court; again I plan on disputing this.
    Originally posted by Jhpt
    This is covered in loads of other G's threads, including a covering letter to send you your N180 (not their N159, you submit a N180 either received from the court, or download one).

    All over here and pepipoo forum - search 'Gladstones straightforward papers'.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 7th Sep 17, 2:41 AM
    • 823 Posts
    • 946 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    The Deep - isn't it too late for a counter? That had to go in with the original defence.
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 7th Sep 17, 11:26 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Jhpt
    Thanks for replies all.

    I did consider submitting counter-claim but as I believe has been said I think I may be too late - I was hoping that as this claim is so ill thought out If I defend it clearly and concisely I may get costs awarded at court, which will do me OK.

    Just to double check - am I required to independently print 180/DQ or is this sent to me directly from the court?

    J
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 7th Sep 17, 12:29 PM
    • 1,588 Posts
    • 2,696 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    DQ will be sent to you independently by the court with an order telling you by when to complete and return it.


    When you return it do a covering letter asking the court to strike out the claim, or to stay it and order the Claimant to properly particularise the claim pursuant to CPR 16.4 and to provide copies of core information and documentation pursuant to paras 6(a) and (c) of the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, failing which the claim should be struck out. Attach a copy of the LBC showing that they have not already provided such information, and any response you said complaining about this and asking for the information (and point these out in the letter, and the fact that no response has ever been received). Ask that, if the court is not minded to make either order, when Directions are given the court makes an order for Witness evidence and documents to be exchanged sequentially (as opposed to simultaneously) because as things stand you do not know on what the claim is based or how the Claimant intends to evidence it and you should not be expected to have to file your witness evidence without knowing that information.
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 8th Sep 17, 7:54 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Jhpt
    Loadsofchildren123 - THANK YOU! I've been getting nervous that I've missed a deadline as I've heard nothing from the court, but have received Gladstones DQ - I guess I'll just wait to receive this from them.

    Great suggestion re: cover letter explaining why. As you have suggested they have indeed been slacking in the PoC.

    In terms of response - if I've sent them a letter since I received the Claim form from court requesting further information and complaining they've flouted PoC - how do I evidence this? I have the word document on my PC but stupidly did not sent registered delivery etc.

    Thank you once again for the advice - much appreciated.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Sep 17, 10:07 AM
    • 51,473 Posts
    • 65,061 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    A letter sent by ordinary post and not returned by the PO is 'deemed delivered' within 2 working days so you don't have to evidence that it was sent. Just include a copy in your evidence file to go with your Witness Statement later on, to show their unreasonableness and their disregard for the overriding objective of (among other things) an exchange of clear information in any dispute.

    When you write your covering letter just write that the claim is without merit and misconceived and the wording suggested by LOC123.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 08-09-2017 at 10:09 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 8th Sep 17, 11:39 AM
    • 1,588 Posts
    • 2,696 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    just print it off and say you posted it
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 8th Sep 17, 11:50 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Jhpt
    At risk of sounding like a broken record - thank you!

    Have printed that off.

    I'm collating my evidence bundle now if this does go all the way to court and I have a few questions;

    1) When referencing case law i.e. Beavis etc. - do I include the whole judgement? I seem to have a 100+ page PDF and unsure whether to include it all or just highlight relevant sections?

    2) formatting for exhibits - page numbered and titled I assume - anything else weird and wonderful?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Sep 17, 1:46 PM
    • 51,473 Posts
    • 65,061 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I think LOC123 will confirm, for that judgment - being very well known and a Supreme Court decision - you don't need to take it to court. So, if you choose to highlight certain paragraphs from the decision as handed down, you will only need the page(s) you want.

    Exhibits, yes page numbered, and titled, and give each exhibit a number identifier (e.g. Jhpt1, then Jhpt2, etc.) so you can refer to the exhibit by number when you write your Witness Statement - the story of what you can confirm to be the facts of the case, not the legal argument - a few weeks before the hearing.

    The WS and evidence are best in an ordered file or document wallet with a contents page at the front, with the exhibit numbers, to make it very easy for the Judge to turn to a page.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 8th Sep 17, 4:17 PM
    • 1,588 Posts
    • 2,696 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    At the start of your statement:
    I, Loadsofchildren, of [address] WILL SAY as follows:
    1. I am the Defendant in this matter.......
    2. With this Statement is a paginated bundle of documents marked LOC1 to which I will refer by page number. [OR if you prefer to number each individually you say With this Stmt are exhibits marked LOC1-23 to which I will refer in this Statement).


    I prefer one paginated exhibit - in the body of the WS you then refer to the docs like this (I've put in the 2 alteratives depending on how you prefer to do it):


    When I came back to the car I found a PCN on my windscreen (page 1 of LOC1/ exhibit LOC1)....


    I looked around and noticed a sign (a photograph of the only visible sign from where the car was parked, taken on the same day, is at page 2 of LOC1/ is at LOC2)


    When I received correspondence about the charge, I wrote to the Claimant asking it to produce information about where the car was parked and its signage [etc] and a copy of the letter is at page 3 of LOC1/LOC3. No response was ever received.


    Etc.
    Your statement will of course be different, I'm merely trying to illustrate the correct wording/format.


    As CM says, put it in a ringbinder with a paginated index so it's easy for the DJ to navigate it and find what he wants.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 8th Sep 17, 4:20 PM
    • 1,588 Posts
    • 2,696 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    If you have a lengthy judgment, just have the relevant extracts, with the bits you want to refer to highlighted.
    You should have the full version available to the DJ.
    However, Beavis fills almost an entire lever arch.
    I would take the full version in case you get a stroppy judge, but I'm of the ilk who takes everything including the kitchen sink to court with me. Have it with you but don't put it in your bundle (in the bundle just put the relevant bits)
    The easiest way of transporting your stuff on the day is in a wheely suitcase, like the ones you use as cabin baggage on aeroplanes. They are really convenient and fit loads of files and papers in them and all lawyers use them now.
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 10th Sep 17, 8:16 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Jhpt
    Evening all,

    apologies in the delay getting back to you - been working manically all weekend so only just had the chance to review the responses.

    That all seems clear - as I say I think if I was to include every page of each judgement this would mean 290+ pages - I will highlight the relevant parts and ask the judge to turn to page x,y,z rather than say read all 111 pages etc! Makes sense I hope!

    Finally last questions re: WS

    1- purely a statement of facts i.e. I own car, car was parked X, ticket recieved X
    - so therefore "the inclusion of case x made the inexperienced defendant feel intimidated" would NOT go in WS (SA perhaps?)
    2 - I WILL include the fact my lease includes right to park etc.

    Skeleton Argument however;
    1 - flesh out each point of my defence - I think I have ~7 seperate reasons as to why I am not liable for the alleged debt i.e. primacy of contract etc - explain each of these and provide the relevant reference to exhibit as appropriate here
    2 - Away from a purely factual basis - how a serial litigant has attempted to intimidate an inexperienced defendant into paying by threatening "local" debt recovery and referencing several pieces of case law (despite them being found inapplicable for residential car parking) and how this is imoral on their part.
    3 - More subjective factors i.e. poor display of signage i.e. not at enterance, not lit at night etc


    Would you guys be so kind to take a look over both my WS and SA this week when completed?
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 10th Sep 17, 9:07 PM
    • 1,165 Posts
    • 2,319 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Would you guys be so kind to take a look over both my WS and SA this week when completed?
    Of course, but bear in mind you may not get instant feedback and you may need to keep bumping it up the forum listings.

    It takes time to read and fully evaluate a WS or SA so it's a case of waiting til a regular can have a proper look at it. Also depends how busy the forum is.

    Keep bumping and you will get a response.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 12th Sep 17, 5:26 PM
    • 1,588 Posts
    • 2,696 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    I'd put point 2 in your WS, and 3.
    The WS is the FACTS, not the legal argument. Both of these are factual.
    Anything that isn't either in your defence or your WS can't go in your SA (unless it's in response to their WS which you obviously haven't seen yet)
    • Jhpt
    • By Jhpt 12th Sep 17, 5:31 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Jhpt
    Thanks guys. Slightly new issue has reared it's head.

    I've written to the Estate Agent and the Resident's Association asking for them to write a letter (Or request this directly from the Landlord - the terms of my lease prevent me contacting my landlord directly) to say that I'm a resident, have a legal right to park within the resident's car park and therefore do NOT support or endorse the PPC's behaviour.

    However the resident association director "doesn't want to get involved" and won't return any of my calls. The estate agent has said "if your permit wasn't displayed we can't help" - I've reminded them there is no reference to permits or third party contractors/operators within my lease and primacy of contract etc. but they're sticking to the party line and refusing to pass my concerns on to my landlord.

    What's the best course of action? LBC?
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 12th Sep 17, 5:58 PM
    • 613 Posts
    • 1,122 Thanks
    safarmuk
    the terms of my lease prevent me contacting my landlord directly
    You might also remind the Estate Agent that the terms of your lease probably allow for "quiet and peaceful enjoyment" (check it) of the property for the term of the AST. The clause about contacting the landlord is primarily so you don't cut out the Estate Agent.

    However the resident association director "doesn't want to get involved" and won't return any of my calls.
    What reason did he give for not wanting to get involved?
    Have you checked with any of your neighbours to see if they have run into these problems as well?
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