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  • FIRST POST
    • Staceyplindfield
    • By Staceyplindfield 16th Aug 17, 8:09 PM
    • 56Posts
    • 19Thanks
    Staceyplindfield
    Defence mitigating circumstances
    • #1
    • 16th Aug 17, 8:09 PM
    Defence mitigating circumstances 16th Aug 17 at 8:09 PM
    I parked in a lay by (which is located on hospital grounds - but has residential homes hence why I parked there) I took my daughter to accident and emergency and a few weeks later I received a pcn in which they had a picture of my vehicle, I disregarded the letter and glad stones started writing to me, after the 3rd letter before claim arrived and so I responded asking to waiver charge explaining mitigating circumstances as was taking daughter to a and e, I have now received the claim form and provided them a aknowledgement, I have only 14 days left for a defence, am panicking, I have read almost every thread and website regarding private parking but just wondered if anyone has won on mitigating circumstances., obviously I didn't see the signs or I wouldn't have parked there, just feeling a little nervous.
Page 1
    • waamo
    • By waamo 16th Aug 17, 8:13 PM
    • 2,626 Posts
    • 3,228 Thanks
    waamo
    • #2
    • 16th Aug 17, 8:13 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Aug 17, 8:13 PM
    Read the thread at the top of this forum marked Newbies...read this first. There is a whole section on defending court claims. Read it several times.

    You will have many questions once you've read it. Feel free to ask but have a very good read first.
    This space for hire.
    • Staceyplindfield
    • By Staceyplindfield 16th Aug 17, 8:16 PM
    • 56 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Staceyplindfield
    • #3
    • 16th Aug 17, 8:16 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Aug 17, 8:16 PM
    I have read newbies thread and pretty much all other threads but concerned that mitigating circumstances won't stand up in court.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 16th Aug 17, 8:21 PM
    • 2,067 Posts
    • 3,676 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #4
    • 16th Aug 17, 8:21 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Aug 17, 8:21 PM
    Which parking company?

    Remember it is for them to prove all the elements of a claim. Even if you said nothing other than deny the debt, they would still have to prove their case.

    Read the Newbies thread again.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 16th Aug 17, 8:27 PM
    • 2,626 Posts
    • 3,228 Thanks
    waamo
    • #5
    • 16th Aug 17, 8:27 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Aug 17, 8:27 PM
    Generally they won't. It doesn't hurt to add them into a defence though to make it more personal to the judge. Taking a child to A&E adds a human element to things.
    This space for hire.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 16th Aug 17, 8:31 PM
    • 10,284 Posts
    • 9,450 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #6
    • 16th Aug 17, 8:31 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Aug 17, 8:31 PM
    From your posts, through lack of knowledge, you have missed the golden opportunity to strangle this charge at birth. You wrote ".............and a few weeks later I received a pcn in which they had a picture of my vehicle,"

    In order to pass the charge on to you as the Registered Keeper, they had only 14 days to get the Notice to Keeper to you. It seems they failed.

    But you have admitted being the driver, so lost that chance.

    You have tried mitigation - PPCs ignore that as it means they lose out on income, so you are now having to rely on any failures that they have made in signage and/or paperwork.

    Understand the points made in the Newbies thread, but recognise that your chances are very much slimmer because you have admitted driving.

    You could try PALS (Google it) to see if they will help.
    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 16th Aug 17, 9:49 PM
    • 1,055 Posts
    • 682 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    • #7
    • 16th Aug 17, 9:49 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Aug 17, 9:49 PM
    It doesn't hurt to add them into a defence though to make it more personal to the judge. Taking a child to A&E adds a human element to things.
    Does it also affect the clarity of signage requirement ? Most people who visit a hospital are under more stress than average people, so signage needs to be proportionally more clear ; to cut through the mental fog. A person attending a Private Parking Industry conference, would presumably not need so much clarity.

    Googling "musket load multiple bullets" finds examples of soldiers in battle "reloading" many times, not noticing that in between, it hasn't fired.
    • Staceyplindfield
    • By Staceyplindfield 17th Aug 17, 6:57 AM
    • 56 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Staceyplindfield
    • #8
    • 17th Aug 17, 6:57 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Aug 17, 6:57 AM
    This was the letter I wrote......

    You issued me with a parking ticket on the 13th December 2016, but I believe I was unfairly issued, I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following.....
    Mitigating circumstances
    There are mitigating circumstances to explain why the vehicle was parked where it was and I am requesting that the charge be waived for this reason, please see attached evidence as proof of my claim.

    My young 6 year old daughter had woken up in pain with her ear due to the earring stud entering inside the earlobe, having taken her straight to the doctors we were reffered straight to accident and emergency department, due to a distressed child and quickly needing medical attention, the vehicle was parked in what assumed a lay by for residents within south down parks, I did not see any signage of any parking restrictions as I had not parked in the hospital car park, and assumed was roadside parking and was unfortunately in a rush to get my daughter to a&he.

    Should this matter go further I will be able to obtain more proof from the hospital.

    Regards
    • Staceyplindfield
    • By Staceyplindfield 17th Aug 17, 6:59 AM
    • 56 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Staceyplindfield
    • #9
    • 17th Aug 17, 6:59 AM
    • #9
    • 17th Aug 17, 6:59 AM
    Thank you, the firm is uk car park management/ glad stones
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 17th Aug 17, 7:16 AM
    • 2,067 Posts
    • 3,676 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    What is the reference number on the "Gladstones" letter? Does it start with a 1*** or a 3****
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • Staceyplindfield
    • By Staceyplindfield 17th Aug 17, 7:53 AM
    • 56 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Staceyplindfield
    What is the reference number on the "Gladstones" letter? Does it start with a 1*** or a 3****
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu

    Starts with a 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 17th Aug 17, 8:13 AM
    • 1,711 Posts
    • 1,928 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    IamEmanresu - irrelevant, there is now a live claim.

    Stacey - what is the ISSUE DATE of the claim? State it clearly here. You have 33 days from the ISSUE DATE for the court to receive your defence.

    You do not simply go on "mitigating" circumstances. They set the colour of the scene, and as said will explain why signs should be very very clear, but they are not your only point.

    As you will have seen from reading Gladstones DEFENCES, they do NOT abide by court rules when setting up a claim. Those are the references to CPR and PD you will have seen. So that's your starting point. Secondly they WILL have added a whole load of made up charges to it, bringing it to around £300? As these charges are pure fantasy, again you have another attack. Two already and we haven't even gotten to any actual details of your case - amazing yeah?

    You go the normal route - they must prove
    1) Standing
    2) Signage was clear and capable of binding a distressed motorist looking to drop their child into A&E to a punitive contract
    3) that there was a commercial incentive for the LANDHOLDER otherwise this is a clear penalty. The supreme court case of PE vs BEAVIS helps you here, because they made the commercial requirement clear as to why this was no longer a penalty - which cannot be enforced - and a charge that could be (awful decision anyway, but hey, water, bridge etc).

    For 1):
    This is where they prove they have a contract with the landowner - or a chain of contracts that reach back to the landholder - that specifically entitle them to offer parking contracts and to pursue to court in their own name. Without this they have no standing i.e. any interest to bring a court claim.

    To expand - you parked in a lay by, was this a lay by on adopted i.e. council maintained highway? Was it clearly delineated as private? Where were any signs (for 2) below? Have you checked that the lay by is definitely private land, and not just a part of the highway - which a lay by would normally be?

    For 2) :
    We need to see EXACTLY what the signs say. Go back and take pictures.
    The signs are likely to say "residents only" or "no parking - residents only" or "permit holders only"..... -> this means they *forbid* anyone except residents / permit holders from parking.

    Their claim will be that the driver entered into a contract - in fact if they claim Beavis applies, they HAVE to make this claim, as that is both sides agreed, that there was a contract - however a contract requires three elements - offer, acceptance, consideration (exchange of value i.e. paying money to park). If they forbid you from parking, they never offer you parking. If they said "parking here is £100, but for residents it is free" or something else, then there would be an arguable offer, but the IPC firms are incredibly stupid and dont understand that basic requirement of a contract. If there is no offer, there can be no contract - meaning that not only do you attack signage as one point for not being prominent enough, you havea second point on signage stating that even if the court finds it was prominent enough, that no contract was ever offered.
    Last edited by nosferatu1001; 17-08-2017 at 8:16 AM.
    • Staceyplindfield
    • By Staceyplindfield 17th Aug 17, 2:34 PM
    • 56 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Staceyplindfield
    The issue date is 26 July, charges are £160 parking charge, £6.67 s69, 8% pa £0.04 per day court fee £25, legal representation £50
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Aug 17, 2:49 PM
    • 34,537 Posts
    • 18,521 Thanks
    Quentin
    If you have inadvertently used your real name as your forum name then you need to get MSE to change it to something anonymous.

    The ppcs monitor this forum and can use your thread against you
    • Staceyplindfield
    • By Staceyplindfield 17th Aug 17, 2:49 PM
    • 56 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Staceyplindfield
    there is a sign when entering on a lamppost which says private road and grounds authorised access only then another sign above with parking restrictions , it won't let me copy/paste pic......?
    Last edited by Staceyplindfield; 17-08-2017 at 2:52 PM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Aug 17, 2:56 PM
    • 34,537 Posts
    • 18,521 Thanks
    Quentin
    New users can't post images.

    Host them somewhere like imgur and post the URL disguised by replacing http with hxxp and someone will post a link for you
    • Staceyplindfield
    • By Staceyplindfield 17th Aug 17, 3:08 PM
    • 56 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Staceyplindfield
    Hxx://m.imgur.com/a/7uT4b
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Aug 17, 3:17 PM
    • 34,537 Posts
    • 18,521 Thanks
    Quentin
    http://m.imgur.com/a/7uT4b
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Aug 17, 10:10 PM
    • 54,083 Posts
    • 67,732 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    That's a good defence point among others.

    Tiny writing on damaged signs, where £100 is not in the large lettering that impressed the short-sighted Supreme Court judges in PE v Beavis. One sign is damaged and placed on the side of a brick wall not facing the cars, and another sign on a pole with so much foliage behind it that anyone parking there can't see or even guess about the existence of any sign at all, especially when stressed about taking a child to A&E.

    Of course you have a case, usual defence points you see in other threads, plus an introduction and heading about the fact this was an emergency visit to Hospital (is that carpark within the NHS site, is it staff houses or something?).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 18th Aug 17, 5:58 PM
    • 1,055 Posts
    • 682 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    If they forbid you from parking, they never offer you parking. If they said "parking here is £100, but for residents it is free" or something else, then there would be an arguable offer, but the IPC firms are incredibly stupid and don't understand that basic requirement of a contract.

    A very key point ; something is either forbidden, or there is a charge for it.
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