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  • FIRST POST
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 11th Aug 17, 6:09 AM
    • 291Posts
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    claxtome
    In car park less than 6 mins still PCN
    • #1
    • 11th Aug 17, 6:09 AM
    In car park less than 6 mins still PCN 11th Aug 17 at 6:09 AM
    Driver of my car decided to park in a private car park. Couldn't get machine to take money so left. Didn't know car park had ANPR recognition OR that small sign says there is only a 5 minute grace period.

    Received NTK approx. 10 days later through post with pictures showing the car entering and leaving in less than 6 mins.

    PPC is a BPA AOS member so after reading "NEWBIE sticky" decided to appeal online to PPC as keeper.

    Next day received response via email.

    About a month later I received a Stage 1 Appeal Rejection (surprise, surprise) with the important POPLA Appeal code.

    Now have drafted POPLA Appeal.

    Anonymised Parking Sign, NTK, (NTK Appeal, Response and Rejection) and Suggested POPLA Appeal are uploaded to dropbox folder->
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j4bo8w9drq1cexr/AABM5ggBdpTrzNaCX_nvC67Ga?dl=0
    Last edited by claxtome; 16-09-2017 at 7:11 AM. Reason: Add NTK Rejection and POPLA Appeal
Page 1
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 11th Aug 17, 6:11 AM
    • 291 Posts
    • 302 Thanks
    claxtome
    • #2
    • 11th Aug 17, 6:11 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Aug 17, 6:11 AM
    Question - should I wait the 20 or so days before they will respond again to my appeal as keeper OR give them the driver information?

    I suppose it comes down to would I lose any leverage later by naming the driver?
    Also will they still respond to my appeal in 20 days if I don't name the driver?

    (Couldn't find any info about this on forum - hence new thread)
    Last edited by claxtome; 11-08-2017 at 10:13 AM.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 11th Aug 17, 6:51 AM
    • 10,201 Posts
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    Guys Dad
    • #3
    • 11th Aug 17, 6:51 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Aug 17, 6:51 AM
    Simply point them to the GRACE section of the BPA code of practice, tell them the driver exercised their right to leave without parking, invite them to send you a POPLA code where you will delight in seeing them waste their fee. No need for any other appeal point.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 11th Aug 17, 7:03 AM
    • 3,834 Posts
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    Half_way
    • #4
    • 11th Aug 17, 7:03 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Aug 17, 7:03 AM
    who's car park was it?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 11th Aug 17, 8:12 AM
    • 2,580 Posts
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    fisherjim
    • #5
    • 11th Aug 17, 8:12 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Aug 17, 8:12 AM
    who's car park was it?
    Originally posted by Half_way
    It's Premier Park, from the photo link.

    "Parking period commences 5 minutes after entry" is an obvious con to trap as many victims as possible, it contravenes the COP, fairness, and common sense and should be exposed!
    Last edited by fisherjim; 11-08-2017 at 8:22 AM.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 11th Aug 17, 8:17 AM
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    The Deep
    • #6
    • 11th Aug 17, 8:17 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Aug 17, 8:17 AM
    GD is absolutely right there is no need for a kitchen sink appeal here. However, if they are daft enough to reject your appeal throw the book at them, the more points you raise, the more it will cost them to reply.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 11th Aug 17, 8:41 AM
    • 3,492 Posts
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    DoaM
    • #7
    • 11th Aug 17, 8:41 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Aug 17, 8:41 AM
    Erm ... guys ... OP has already appealed to the PPC and had it rejected.

    OP - I can't see the dropbox link here at work ... does the appeal rejection include a POPLA code?
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 11th Aug 17, 8:58 AM
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    Half_way
    • #8
    • 11th Aug 17, 8:58 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Aug 17, 8:58 AM
    the who's car park question was aimed at getting who owns the car park, not the ppc.
    The op should complain strongly to the landowner, as their agents have breached their own trade associations code of practice on grace periods, and have accessed/used/processed the OP's data without due cause.
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 11th Aug 17, 9:38 AM
    • 291 Posts
    • 302 Thanks
    claxtome
    • #9
    • 11th Aug 17, 9:38 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Aug 17, 9:38 AM
    Thank you so much for all your comments so quickly.

    Here is the answers to the questions in order->

    Simply point them to the GRACE section of the BPA code of practice, tell them the driver exercised their right to leave without parking, invite them to send you a POPLA code where you will delight in seeing them waste their fee. No need for any other appeal point.
    I have appealed, see intro post, which has a dropbox link to the appeal. The appeal mentions the GRACE period of the BPA code and asks for a POPLA code. ;-)

    who's car park was it?
    I am not sure and will try my hardest to find out. What I do know is it is just a smallish car park which doesn't appear to be connected with any shops etc. Some of the signs mention CPC but doubt they are the owners either.

    Half_way if I do find out the landowner I think your suggestion about appealing to them is a good idea - thank you. :-)

    Erm ... guys ... OP has already appealed to the PPC and had it rejected.
    OP - I can't see the dropbox link here at work ... does the appeal rejection include a POPLA code?
    My appeal has not been rejected yet, I don't think, I just had a reply by email asking to name the driver and stated they won't reply further until first week in September. (If someone thinks it is a rejection, which I don't have much experience of these things, it certainly didn't provide a POPLA code which I requested).

    The dropbox link is to folder which contains the received NTK, 'My Appeal' email, 'Response email to Appeal' and a specimen sign. I am waiting for my POPLA code if they do indeed reject it. Hence my questions in my second post. ;-)


    Sorry to reiterate but wanted an answer to the following questions->
    Should I wait the 20 or so days before they will respond again to my appeal as keeper OR give the driver information?

    I suppose it comes down to would I lose any leverage later by naming the driver?
    Also will they still respond to my appeal in 20 days if I don't name the driver?
    Last edited by claxtome; 11-08-2017 at 10:10 AM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Aug 17, 9:43 AM
    • 33,243 Posts
    • 17,186 Thanks
    Quentin
    No don't name the driver.

    Await your popla code.

    Edit your posts to remove details of who was driving
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 11th Aug 17, 9:49 AM
    • 291 Posts
    • 302 Thanks
    claxtome
    Thank you Quentin - didn't want to give my name.

    Think only question left is ->

    Does anyone know/think they will respond again in early September to me as the Keeper as mentioned in the 'response' email?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Aug 17, 9:57 AM
    • 33,243 Posts
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    Quentin
    Yes. Await them sending you a popla code
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 11th Aug 17, 10:19 AM
    • 291 Posts
    • 302 Thanks
    claxtome
    Thank you once again Quentin for your advice and now will wait to see what comes through post OR is emailed to me in early September.

    fisherjim can I pick up on your post and ask some questions to the forum about it->
    "Parking period commences 5 minutes after entry" is an obvious con to trap as many victims as possible, it contravenes the COP, fairness, and common sense and should be exposed!
    Questions I have about this - open to all->
    Presumably I can contact the BPA and complain to them about the PPC practice?
    Is there anyone else people think I can complain/write/email to?

    Note: Once I find out the landowner I will complain to them as well
    Last edited by claxtome; 11-08-2017 at 10:31 AM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Aug 17, 10:23 AM
    • 33,243 Posts
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    Quentin
    Your MP. Local press.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 11th Aug 17, 10:35 AM
    • 3,492 Posts
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    DoaM
    My appeal has not been rejected yet, I don't think, I just had a reply by email asking to name the driver and stated they won't reply further until first week in September. (If someone thinks it is a rejection, which I don't have much experience of these things, it certainly didn't provide a POPLA code which I requested).
    Originally posted by claxtome
    Ah, OK - it was just the usual "fishing trip" then, to try and hook the driver's identity.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 11th Aug 17, 10:46 AM
    • 2,371 Posts
    • 2,894 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    As above

    try your MP

    this is a copy of a post by Bargepole ....

    "Some action at last:

    http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html

    This Private Member's Bill has Government and cross-party support, and stands a good chance of making it into statute.

    The full text of the clauses will be published nearer the date of the second reading, but my sources tell me it's something we should support.

    Now would be a good time to write to your MP urging them to support it."

    let here know that there have been many complaints about this car park scam

    he/ she may well help intervene

    good luck

    Ralph
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Aug 17, 2:08 PM
    • 51,504 Posts
    • 65,107 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes. Await them sending you a popla code
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Seconded, they will send a POPLA code, no need to reply to their 'who was driving?' fishing exercise.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 16th Sep 17, 7:30 AM
    • 291 Posts
    • 302 Thanks
    claxtome
    Thanks for all your replies so far - it is appreciated

    This week I received the expected NTK Appeal Rejection email which included the desired POPLA code.
    I have drafted the POPLA Appeal after reading threads in this forum and sticky.
    I have uploaded both the Appeal Rejection and draft POPLA Appeal to the same Dropbox folder mentioned in my opening post.
    (I have also updated my opening post with a summary of the case).

    Please can you look over my draft POPLA Appeal:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/icnmvf42re6vbye/POPLA%20Appeal.pdf?dl=0
    Note: Bits in red are the tailored bits for my specific case.


    The main questions I have is:
    1. Should I add to my appeal by mentioning - "Driver entered car park with sole purpose of paying to be park but as machine wouldn't accept money they decided to leave and park elsewhere. The driver spent most of the 5 mins trying to pay for parking"

    Appreciate any comments/suggestions
    Last edited by claxtome; 16-09-2017 at 10:03 AM.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 16th Sep 17, 9:06 AM
    • 10,201 Posts
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    Guys Dad
    Got a "Can't open file" on my tablet.

    But if you have put in a generic kitchen sink appeal, and you were only there for 6 minutes, make sure GRACE is the most prominent point as you don't really need any other.
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 16th Sep 17, 10:08 AM
    • 291 Posts
    • 302 Thanks
    claxtome
    I am not sure why you can't view it Guys Dad

    Did you try the link to the full folder in my header post?
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