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  • FIRST POST
    • brightonbelle
    • By brightonbelle 9th Aug 17, 8:53 AM
    • 79Posts
    • 16Thanks
    brightonbelle
    Just one thing...
    • #1
    • 9th Aug 17, 8:53 AM
    Just one thing... 9th Aug 17 at 8:53 AM
    I posted a month or so ago but my situation, husband declared bankrupt 2015 now letter from trustee about selling out home or me buying the BI. I've had advice from as many places as I can find and it seems that even though this is financial abuse - I wasn't told the bankruptcy until days before the petition from HRMC and was lied throughout - there isn't anything I can do other than try to raise 83k!!

    One question I have though is if this equity doesn't actually cover his debts what's the point in making two children homeless, it makes no sense. The rent here is one thousand pounds a month more than my mortgage, my equity will be gone in a few years, and I will have to rely on benefits - we are now separated - will my ex have to pay towards the outstanding debts, this will seriously effect his ability to pay maintenance is that considered?
Page 4
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 19th Sep 17, 9:18 AM
    • 36,192 Posts
    • 152,930 Thanks
    silvercar
    I'd have nothing, it seems even if we get back together I'd be bailing him out as I'd be paying the rent from my money so he could pay the trustee how is that even lawful,
    That is standard and reasonable. If two people are sharing a home and both earning, then it is a reasonable assumption that both should contribute to the rent/ mortgage.

    The level of his IPA takes into account the amount he needs to pay for living expenses.

    You or he need to calculate which would be more sensible financially. Him having an IPA based on living alone and paying maintenance or him living with you, paying his share of the family living costs and an IPA based on that.

    Given that your primary concern is keeping your home, I would see a mortgage broker and find out the max mortgage you could get based on (a) your income alone but including maintenance and (b) a joint income, mortgage in your name with his income taken into consideration. That will tell you what remortgaging would get you. Then you also ask your current lender what they will consider under both scenarios.
    If one of those options gives you enough of a mortgage to pay off the OR and buy back the BI then you are secure.
    • brightonbelle
    • By brightonbelle 19th Sep 17, 11:46 AM
    • 79 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    brightonbelle
    thanks for the advice Silvercar, I will mention that to the building society when I speak to them, they know the situation and have said that once the arrears are clear then I will be in a better position, it will need to go the underwriters for a decision.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 19th Sep 17, 7:10 PM
    • 36,192 Posts
    • 152,930 Thanks
    silvercar
    thanks for the advice Silvercar, I will mention that to the building society when I speak to them, they know the situation and have said that once the arrears are clear then I will be in a better position, it will need to go the underwriters for a decision.
    Originally posted by brightonbelle
    I hope it works out.

    Bare in mind that the arrears department are there to encourage you to pay off the arrears, so I wouldn't take any promises they make as gospel.

    Worth speaking to a good mortgage broker who should know fairly instantly whether particular lenders will allow joint income and/or maintenance payments to be considered.
    • TakeAwayKing
    • By TakeAwayKing 28th Sep 17, 1:01 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    TakeAwayKing
    Hi again
    You say a quick sale isn't possible but unfortunately it really is.
    • brightonbelle
    • By brightonbelle 29th Sep 17, 10:49 AM
    • 79 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    brightonbelle
    but a quick sale would be a cheap price wouldn't it? I can't afford that, if I am forced down that route I will need to get a decent amount so that I get a decent amount of equity. Surveyor has just been round anyway and I've spoken to the mortgage company so will have to see.

    Might just get a lottery ticket this afternoon too!!
    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 29th Sep 17, 10:53 AM
    • 1,449 Posts
    • 1,239 Thanks
    StopIt
    but a quick sale would be a cheap price wouldn't it? I can't afford that, if I am forced down that route I will need to get a decent amount so that I get a decent amount of equity. Surveyor has just been round anyway and I've spoken to the mortgage company so will have to see.

    Might just get a lottery ticket this afternoon too!!
    Originally posted by brightonbelle

    That's why it may be prudent to not let them force a quick sale by putting the house on the market yourself.


    I know it's not what you want to hear, but if you want to maximise your equity, that's your best shot. Letting the sale be forced from beneath you will almost certainly lead to a lower return.


    It's also why you need to get professional legal advice regarding the situation in full to get a proper opinion on whether a forced sale is likely or not. AND to speak to a good broker too to evaluate your chances of keeping the house ASAP.


    The faster you act, the better your chances of a least bad outcome.
    • brightonbelle
    • By brightonbelle 29th Sep 17, 11:37 AM
    • 79 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    brightonbelle
    yes I understand that, I am seeking advice from lawyers and also have to make an appointment with an independent mortgage advisor as well as speaking to the trustee keeping them updated.

    Whilst the person who got me into this mess has walked away and left me to deal with it all...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger I guess hey!!
    • FlowerGirl27
    • By FlowerGirl27 2nd Oct 17, 2:59 PM
    • 85 Posts
    • 83 Thanks
    FlowerGirl27
    He is probably having to talk to the trustee too though about selling the house?
    • brightonbelle
    • By brightonbelle 3rd Oct 17, 10:07 AM
    • 79 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    brightonbelle
    no he isn't, has had no contact with them at all, made no effort to get his children out of the situation he has put them in at all, nothing. Got out of paying his debts, but lost everything, sad really. its been a tough lesson
    • FlowerGirl27
    • By FlowerGirl27 3rd Oct 17, 10:51 AM
    • 85 Posts
    • 83 Thanks
    FlowerGirl27
    Sorry, I just guessed at that and I shouldn't have done.
    Well it must be a relief to have the debts off your back and to be able to start with a fresh slate. Sometimes when bankruptcy is the only option it can be a relief.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 3rd Oct 17, 11:11 AM
    • 36,192 Posts
    • 152,930 Thanks
    silvercar
    Has he actually got an Income Payment Order?

    Did the Official Receiver go to Court and get a Court Order saying that he needs to pay x for however long, being his surplus income?

    An actual sealed Court Order setting that out?
    Originally posted by FlowerGirl27
    yes he has, he had to go to court to change the date as he wanted it to go out when he got paid, he is subsequently in arrears with it so I am not sure if he has to pay it for three years from when it was set up, three years for when he was bankrupt or it goes when he looses the family home? Also he will have to pay all the rent so his disposable income will be reduced by about 800 quid a month as he only pays 720 for the mortgage, I assume that the payment order will reflect this change? I hope so otherwise it will be pretty hard going with very little income left for any of us xx
    Originally posted by brightonbelle
    As he is discharged, he must have co-operated with the OR, enough that they are satisfied that he has disclosed his finances. An IPA means he and the OR have agreed (or he has accepted) what he needs to pay. So clearly there has been some co-operation.
    • brightonbelle
    • By brightonbelle 3rd Oct 17, 3:56 PM
    • 79 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    brightonbelle
    Think he is discharged, has never discussed it with me, didn't talk about any of it to me. The OR did take him to court yes, and he has a payment plan in place. But will not cover the balance of his debts after the BI in our home is released - he will still owe in excess of 60k so from what people have said he won't have to pay this back then as the three years will be up in six months?

    Neither a fresh start nor a relief for me, I had minimal debt and am frugal yet could potentially lose everything. A strong life lesson for sure, I don't know how he sleeps at night if I am honest, thankfully the children are unaware of the situation I hope that I can keep it that way until the situation is sorted one way or the other.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 3rd Oct 17, 8:12 PM
    • 36,192 Posts
    • 152,930 Thanks
    silvercar
    Think he is discharged, has never discussed it with me, didn't talk about any of it to me.
    You can find that out here.

    The OR did take him to court yes, and he has a payment plan in place. But will not cover the balance of his debts after the BI in our home is released - he will still owe in excess of 60k so from what people have said he won't have to pay this back then as the three years will be up in six months?
    Three years of IPA payments and then it is all done usually.

    Bankruptcy isn't intended to pay off all debts, but to give people the opportunity of a fresh start at the same time releasing all assets to repay creditors as far as the bankrupt is able.

    Neither a fresh start nor a relief for me, I had minimal debt and am frugal yet could potentially lose everything.
    Problem is that you had joint finances, so everything that was yours was potentially his too.
    I appreciate how difficult this is for you, caught in the middle of a triangle between your OH, the OR and the creditors.
    • brightonbelle
    • By brightonbelle 4th Oct 17, 11:16 AM
    • 79 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    brightonbelle
    his name isn't on the list so I assume he discharged? The equity will cover hardly any of his debt, a huge chunk - almost half will go to the OR.
    • TakeAwayKing
    • By TakeAwayKing 4th Oct 17, 12:31 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    TakeAwayKing
    If the OR is still dealing with the bankruptcy then there is at least a small blessing there. The OR has a limit on the fees they can charge for dealing with the estate, before distributing funds.

    If the OR had appointed a trustee it would have been a lot lot more expensive as fees are often on a time cost basis meaning the funds to be distributed would have been greatly reduced.
    • brightonbelle
    • By brightonbelle 4th Oct 17, 12:40 PM
    • 79 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    brightonbelle
    Oops I meant the trustee and his solicitor, is that different to an OR then? it's a huge amount, doesn't make sense instead of repaying his debts they are making a huge profit. Surprised its legal as its almost doubled his bankruptcy debt. The people who petitioned his bankruptcy won't get hardly any money back and someone makes a profit at the cost of a home....sorry still angry :-)
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 4th Oct 17, 4:52 PM
    • 36,192 Posts
    • 152,930 Thanks
    silvercar
    It doesn't matter, to you or your OH, how much the creditors get repaid. It makes no difference to the IPA or the equity in the home whether the creditors get none of the owed amounts or half of them.

    Timing is everything and unfortunately, your situation leaves you facing the consequences of your OHs actions. Had you split before this all happened then this:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=73184358&postcount=6

    would have applied and you would be on stronger ground.

    Being with your OH, even though you are clearly annoyed with his behaviour, means that the OR looks at joint assets.
    • brightonbelle
    • By brightonbelle 4th Oct 17, 5:19 PM
    • 79 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    brightonbelle
    sadly we are now separated but too late for this, just seems to make a mockery of the whole process if the debts don't actually get paid and someone makes a small fortune for doing sod all...yet the debtor walks away debt free, surely the trustee should have a limit too.. the only joint asset we have is the house, never had a joint bank account or credit card - nothing.

    Its a life lesson I've learnt never trust anyone ever again, be independent financially, what i have from now on will be for me and the children x
    • Steven_from_scotland
    • By Steven_from_scotland 4th Oct 17, 7:14 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Steven_from_scotland
    The debtor walking away debt free is what bankruptcy is all about being able to free yourself from burdon and start again, he hasn't walked away without losing anything as he's lost half a share in a house that was in huge equity.
    • TakeAwayKing
    • By TakeAwayKing 4th Oct 17, 7:24 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    TakeAwayKing
    The trustee and the solicitors are just doing their jobs by dealing with the bankruptcy. What would the alternative be?
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