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  • FIRST POST
    • Helz123
    • By Helz123 7th Aug 17, 12:47 PM
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    Helz123
    Late Penalty charges due to overpayment of Child benefit
    • #1
    • 7th Aug 17, 12:47 PM
    Late Penalty charges due to overpayment of Child benefit 7th Aug 17 at 12:47 PM
    I think I have read one or two other posts on here regarding late penalty charges for self assessment on tax returns. My husband earned over the £50,000 threshold in years 2014/2015, 2015/2016 and 2016/2017. I was claiming child benefit during these years and had not realised that as he went over the earning that he was meant to complete a self assessment tax return. Although we are not disputing that we should pay back the child benefit, we did not receive any notifications of any need to complete a tax return at all until around May of this year so how can they say it was late if we did not realise it was something that needed to be done. We have already set up a direct debit to pay back the debt from the first year, this is £257 a month, we are finding this quite difficult to pay back but after phoning HMRC they said as we agreed to this amount we can't change it. Also one this amount is paid back we will still owe over £3000 which will be due in full. They don't really seem very willing to help us. All we wanted to do was bring the payments slightly lower to make it more manageable and not keep getting late penalties when like I said before we were never notified of any of this before May of this year.


    Just in case people think we are well off this is not the case. We used all of my husbands earnings on an extension we built and at the moment our daughter, son in law and 2 nearly 3 children are all living with us while they save for a mortgage. We are not in financial difficulty but had paid off our overdraft quite recently and now this is putting us back into it again.


    So would we be able to appeal the late penalties at all? Why are the people that you ring in HMRC just so harsh? Nobody seems willing to help or accept we know we should pay the money owed back. Also it is so frustrating that 2 people earning £49,000 in a household can still claim Child Benefit, who the hell came up with that rule???? How is that fair? Anyway I have since cancelled the child benefit of course.
Page 1
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 7th Aug 17, 2:51 PM
    • 9,416 Posts
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    Pennywise
    • #2
    • 7th Aug 17, 2:51 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Aug 17, 2:51 PM
    Unfortunately, that's how it is. Both HMRC and the child benefit agency did widespread publicity, mailshots, etc., and it was very well publicised on TV, in newspapers and on the internet. It's hard to see how anyone could have missed the new rules.

    With tax, the onus is always on the taxpayer to advise HMRC of changes in circumstances and to register for self assessment tax returns when required to do so.

    As part of the "tax gap" claimed to be £30-£40 billion pounds per year, HMRC are getting tough I'm afraid.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 7th Aug 17, 5:40 PM
    • 23,635 Posts
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    xylophone
    • #3
    • 7th Aug 17, 5:40 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Aug 17, 5:40 PM
    My husband earned over the £50,000 threshold in years 2014/2015, 2015/2016 and 2016/2017. I was claiming child benefit during these years and had not realised that as he went over the earning that he was meant to complete a self assessment tax return.

    This was extensively discussed at the time on television and in the papers - the point you make concerning dual earners was also made repeatedly.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/9367254/Child-benefit-cuts-to-hit-families-with-sole-breadwinners-hardest.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/10591211/Over-100000-parents-face-child-benefits-tax-fine.html

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2744983/Taxman-chivvies-30-000-parents-earning-50k-repay-child-benefit.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2257728/Child-benefit-chaos-engulfs-Tory-MPs-Downing-St-orders-politicians-check-family-status-tax-inspectors.html

    http://www.plusaccounting.co.uk/blog-post/high-income-child-benefit-charge-do-you-think-fair-tax

    It is hard to know how anyone in receipt of CB could have missed it.
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 7th Aug 17, 9:52 PM
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    Dazed and confused
    • #4
    • 7th Aug 17, 9:52 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Aug 17, 9:52 PM
    Have never heard of a HMRC "late penalty", are they actually penalties for late submission of the tax returns or penalties for late payment of the money due for each year?
    • TheCyclingProgrammer
    • By TheCyclingProgrammer 8th Aug 17, 1:26 AM
    • 2,903 Posts
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    TheCyclingProgrammer
    • #5
    • 8th Aug 17, 1:26 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Aug 17, 1:26 AM
    I don't think you can get a penalty for filing a return late if you never received a notice to file a tax return.

    You can of course be fined for failing to notify HMRC that you needed to file a return, as well as interest and penalties on any overdue payments.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 8th Aug 17, 2:29 AM
    • 5,780 Posts
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    p00hsticks
    • #6
    • 8th Aug 17, 2:29 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Aug 17, 2:29 AM
    Anyway I have since cancelled the child benefit of course.
    Originally posted by Helz123
    bear in mind that by doing this then - if you are not working and the youngest child you are claiming for is under 12 - you are giving up NI credits that will go towards your state pension eligibility.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 8th Aug 17, 2:31 AM
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    p00hsticks
    • #7
    • 8th Aug 17, 2:31 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Aug 17, 2:31 AM
    Have never heard of a HMRC "late penalty", are they actually penalties for late submission of the tax returns or penalties for late payment of the money due for each year?
    Originally posted by Dazed and confused
    Both.
    https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/penalties
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 8th Aug 17, 1:07 PM
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    sheramber
    • #8
    • 8th Aug 17, 1:07 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Aug 17, 1:07 PM
    bear in mind that by doing this then - if you are not working and the youngest child you are claiming for is under 12 - you are giving up NI credits that will go towards your state pension eligibility.
    Originally posted by p00hsticks
    You can still get NI credits without taking the money
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 8th Aug 17, 2:51 PM
    • 5,780 Posts
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    p00hsticks
    • #9
    • 8th Aug 17, 2:51 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Aug 17, 2:51 PM
    You can still get NI credits without taking the money
    Originally posted by sheramber
    But you still need to be registered for Child Benefit, I think ?
    The OP said she had cancelled their claim..
    I'm not sure how you go about getting the NI credits but not receiving the money....
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 8th Aug 17, 9:49 PM
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    Dazed and confused
    p00sticks

    I am aware both exist but the op hasn't actually told us what the "late penalty" actually is so its hard to help without knowing this.

    Late return penalties seem unlikely from the original post but maybe some facts are missing. Which is not unusual in these threads ;-)
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 9th Aug 17, 12:56 PM
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    sheramber
    You opt out of payment by advising the Child Benefit department.
    • EasyLay
    • By EasyLay 18th Sep 17, 9:41 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    EasyLay
    Same thing has happened to me. I've been PAYE all my working life and over the last few years my wage has crept over the threshold. Now I receive a letter from my taxman saying I owe them money. I don't have a problem with that, however the letter also rather ominously lets me know there are penalties involved and I will have to pay them, though doesn't actually give me a figure.

    I tried calling the phone number on the letter but there's no response; the phone isn’t being picked up. Does anyone know how best to get in contact with them? How should I proceed?

    I know it's my fault, "ignorance is no defence", etc, but I am surprised they will be charging me for two years worth of late payments when I wasn't even aware of the debt. This is the kind of behaviour you'd expect from a loan shark ;(

    Many thanks in advance
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 22nd Sep 17, 9:07 AM
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    • 792 Thanks
    Flugelhorn
    But you still need to be registered for Child Benefit, I think ?
    The OP said she had cancelled their claim..
    I'm not sure how you go about getting the NI credits but not receiving the money....
    Originally posted by p00hsticks
    We decided that DH would continue to claim the CB (and get the NI credits) and I paid it back about a year later when the self assessment stuff sorted out how much it all was.
    • jskemp
    • By jskemp 4th Oct 17, 2:34 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    jskemp
    Communicating relying on luck!
    I'll keep it short, but I am in the same situation as a lot of people on here.

    My circumstances did not change, the rules did! Some people do not read the newspaper regularly, they have other things to deal with, like kids and family. I certainly did not know about the change in 'their' circumstances.

    Although i do not agree on the methodology of the changes; on sole income; not joint, i have no problem paying the tax owed back. However £564.64 in interest and charges is disgusting! I wish i could find a savings account offering this sort of return!
    • Lisamurphy73
    • By Lisamurphy73 4th Oct 17, 9:05 PM
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    Lisamurphy73
    We have just been hit with a £3k bill too. We didn't realise that the rules have changed. As the ladies above have said this is partly our fault for not listening to the news/ papers etc. We did not receive any letter from HMRC.
    My issue is we have been given 3 weeks to pay it and we simply don't have that kind of cash available. I saw that someone arranged monthly direct debits? How can this be set up? Please advise. We totally accept that it has to be paid back but not everyone has £3000 lying around?? Thanks in advance
    • sam1970
    • By sam1970 5th Oct 17, 10:31 AM
    • 1,028 Posts
    • 122 Thanks
    sam1970
    I am sorry for the OP but I am also furious at HMRC for not doing their job properly. We gave up our child benefits as my earning is above the threshold (My wife does not work) but I just found out that some one I know who is earning over £1500000/year is still getting child benefit paid to his wife as he never bothered cancelling them and he never declares them in his self assessment. I am also aware of other people who moved to work abroad years ago (especially in UAE,Qatar, Saudi Arabia) who are earning tax free handsome salaries and still having their child benefits paid into their UK accounts..they come in the summer (when temperature is soaring in the Gulf) to find nice £4000 or even more waiting for them as holiday money.
    Last edited by sam1970; 05-10-2017 at 10:41 AM.
    something missing
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 5th Oct 17, 1:24 PM
    • 3,971 Posts
    • 2,955 Thanks
    sheramber
    I am sorry for the OP but I am also furious at HMRC for not doing their job properly. We gave up our child benefits as my earning is above the threshold (My wife does not work) but I just found out that some one I know who is earning over £1500000/year is still getting child benefit paid to his wife as he never bothered cancelling them and he never declares them in his self assessment. I am also aware of other people who moved to work abroad years ago (especially in UAE,Qatar, Saudi Arabia) who are earning tax free handsome salaries and still having their child benefits paid into their UK accounts..they come in the summer (when temperature is soaring in the Gulf) to find nice £4000 or even more waiting for them as holiday money.
    Originally posted by sam1970
    What people say and what is fact are often dIfferent.

    However, if it bothers you that much then report them to HMRC. Nobody elesecan do any8thing about it.
    • bobsp
    • By bobsp 31st Oct 17, 5:12 PM
    • 19 Posts
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    bobsp
    I have just had a long conversation with the Child Benefit people.

    They tell me I cant stop the benefit, my partner has to....

    However they will still chase ME for payment.......

    I am not paying my partners bills/debts....

    They also knew they knew about this in 2014, but failed to contact me, they have never sent my partner a letter either.

    I am appealing this, to say it has been handled badly by HMRC is an understatement!!!!
    • maz1411
    • By maz1411 30th Nov 17, 6:40 AM
    • 82 Posts
    • 86 Thanks
    maz1411
    After hearing that a colleague has been charged as many of you have - I have now looked into this ...... Long story short I have been over paid .... Does anyone know .....If I inform them will I get charged the £3K or not?

    Sleepless nights over stressing over this
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 30th Nov 17, 10:09 AM
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    Dazed and confused
    What £3k?

    The Child Benefit charge will depend on your own income (Google adjusted net income as that is what counts for this), how much child benefit was received and how many years are involved.

    But you may be able to keep additional charges such as interest and penalties to a minimum by coming forward yourself rather than waiting for HMRC to get round to you.

    Interest will usually be charged from 31 January after the end of the tax year in question so the sooner you get it sorted and paid the less interest you are likely to owe.
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