Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Lesliei2005
    • By Lesliei2005 2nd Aug 17, 9:32 AM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Lesliei2005
    Care home fees
    • #1
    • 2nd Aug 17, 9:32 AM
    Care home fees 2nd Aug 17 at 9:32 AM
    Hi all - this is my first post here, so please be gentle to me!

    My dad is about to move into a care home. His assets are around £50k in the bank, plus he owns his flat, worth about £150k. He recently updated his will, to equal shares between my brother and I. The big question now is obviously what can be done to avoid the £50k and potentially the £150k going on care home fees?

    Thanks for any advice.
    Les
Page 2
    • Nual
    • By Nual 5th Aug 17, 9:02 PM
    • 130 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    Nual
    In our area we still have some local authority homes. However, they do also use private homes. Typically the private homes will either have a wing that is of lower standard or rooms that are smaller and less furnished.

    The quality of care is little different as its the same staff typically. It is the living standards within the facility where differences show. The private funding can buy things that the local authority funding will not. Although LA care within a private home is almost certainly better than an old LA home (again focusing on facilities) and that does mean is likely that some cross subsidy does exist.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Why do you think this? In most private homes the LA funded resident will get exactly the same care and facilities as the self funder. LA homes are generally very very good. Some may not be as modern as private homes as the money isnt there to refurbish etc, but the staff are properly trained and get decent wages and holidays. The profit element that would go to private equity firms is instead spent on making life better for the residents and the people who care for them.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 5th Aug 17, 9:32 PM
    • 89,852 Posts
    • 55,455 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Why do you think this?
    A close family member works for one and has management time in a few.

    In most private homes the LA funded resident will get exactly the same care and facilities as the self funder.
    Maybe. Maybe not. The ones I am aware of have addons that the private residents can pay for.

    LA homes are generally very very good. Some may not be as modern as private homes as the money isnt there to refurbish etc, but the staff are properly trained and get decent wages and holidays.
    Never any question was made about ability or care given by the workers. The facilities are the main weaknesses.

    The profit element that would go to private equity firms is instead spent on making life better for the residents and the people who care for them.
    You would like to think that was the case but it isnt really.
    • downshifter98
    • By downshifter98 5th Aug 17, 11:44 PM
    • 373 Posts
    • 274 Thanks
    downshifter98
    The real crux of the matter (leaving aside the morals of who pays for care) is do you want to have assets in your latter years or not and this has to be decided, imho, by your mid 60's - do you want to gift money to loved ones or hold onto it tightly, do you splash your money on 'good' living and accept any care you might need could possibly be of a more basic nature? Its a life choice and depends purely on an individuals outlook. Personally there is no good living that I would be prepared to give up just to spend a year or 3 in a better care home - I just don't think I will care by then. The op should have been asking this question 20 odd years ago. Now is too late but then maybe their parent held onto assets for just this very circumstance.
  • jamesd
    It's too late to plan to avoid care home fees once there is specific knowledge that care will be needed, so it's too late to avoid paying now. What can be done is to plan to try to reduce the rate at which the money is spent. There probably aren't enough assets here, like savings and pension lump sums, to fully cover the cost but there is some hope.

    In general I tend to suggest peer to peer lending for income generation because interest rates of twelve percent or so can be obtained, though two percent should be allowed for bad debt. That's potentially £5,000-£6,000 a year of income on top of any pensions he's getting paid to him.

    If he's willing to sell his flat, perhaps to one or both of you, there's more potential. Another £15,000-£18,000 a year if an extra £150,000 is invested.

    Even at the upper end an extra £24,000 on top of a state pension won't fully cover care home costs but if he has work pensions on top it should at least stretch the time it'll last. Since typical life expectancy for those needing care is about two to possibly three years if that applies to him a fair bit may be left.
    • WillowCat
    • By WillowCat 6th Aug 17, 1:35 AM
    • 696 Posts
    • 802 Thanks
    WillowCat
    If your dad is frail enough to need a care home then he should be eligible for attendance allowance. This, along with state and any private pensions can be used to pay for part of his fees. Depending on how much his fees are, he may find that his capital will last a fair while.

    If you have POA have you considered renting his flat out for extra income?

    We arranged my grans care home through the council social worker even though she was self funding. The care home (which was very good ) was charged to the council at their rate and then the council billed us. This was their suggestion though I've since read that this isn't normal. As we live in a cheap area the home only cost about £150 a week more than her income including attendance allowance so her capital depleted fairly slowly. Sadly she only lived 6 months after moving to the home.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 6th Aug 17, 4:44 AM
    • 803 Posts
    • 781 Thanks
    badmemory
    If your dad is frail enough to need a care home then he should be eligible for attendance allowance.
    Originally posted by WillowCat
    Definitely agree with this. The manager at my mother's care home said that most in care homes should be entitled to the higher rate. Just don't expect his social worker to tell you about that. He should have a social worker as anyone needing a care home is a vulnerable person.

    Those POAs do need sorting if not already done. This will give you the right to discuss his care with the care home or any doctor or hospital he may need. Without it you don't even have the right to ask them to find his missing false teeth.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 6th Aug 17, 8:13 AM
    • 18,010 Posts
    • 45,893 Thanks
    Pollycat
    The real crux of the matter (leaving aside the morals of who pays for care) is do you want to have assets in your latter years or not and this has to be decided, imho, by your mid 60's - do you want to gift money to loved ones or hold onto it tightly, do you splash your money on 'good' living and accept any care you might need could possibly be of a more basic nature? Its a life choice and depends purely on an individuals outlook. Personally there is no good living that I would be prepared to give up just to spend a year or 3 in a better care home - I just don't think I will care by then. The op should have been asking this question 20 odd years ago. Now is too late but then maybe their parent held onto assets for just this very circumstance.
    Originally posted by downshifter98
    It's really none of the OP's business - now or 20 years ago.

    The money and assets belong to his Father.

    There is no inheritance until someone dies and leaves money in their will to someone else.

    The big question is - who really wants an answer to funding care home fees.....
    Hi all - this is my first post here, so please be gentle to me!

    My dad is about to move into a care home. His assets are around £50k in the bank, plus he owns his flat, worth about £150k. He recently updated his will, to equal shares between my brother and I. The big question now is obviously what can be done to avoid the £50k and potentially the £150k going on care home fees?

    Thanks for any advice.
    Les
    Originally posted by Lesliei2005
    • honeyend
    • By honeyend 7th Oct 17, 3:58 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    honeyend
    As I have been a nurse most of my working life and worked in a few care homes over forty years on and off I have to say nice wall paper and bathrooms do not a good care home make, Caring is about people and if there are not enough staff , they are not trained and well motivated you will still be sat in your own poop how ever much you pay.
    I would get an assessment of how much care your dad actually needs, was it easier to put him in a home rather than organise a social care package? Does he want to be in a home, is he happy? If he is its just working out the numbers and finding out when the money runs out will he have to move.
    I think the discussion about care when older should be talked about a lot sooner, its a trade off, if your children want the money they are going to have to supply a certain amount of support, that's if you have assets to leave.
    My step-father was a tight fisted old ***, you would have had to cart out unconscious before he would have paid to be in a home. He employed a housekeeper and I was speaking to someone last week who is being paid to house and granny sit, the cost about the same as a weeks care home fees in my area.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 7th Oct 17, 4:40 PM
    • 3,749 Posts
    • 4,016 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    As I have been a nurse most of my working life and worked in a few care homes over forty years on and off I have to say nice wall paper and bathrooms do not a good care home make, Caring is about people and if there are not enough staff , they are not trained and well motivated you will still be sat in your own poop how ever much you pay.
    I would get an assessment of how much care your dad actually needs, was it easier to put him in a home rather than organise a social care package? Does he want to be in a home, is he happy? If he is its just working out the numbers and finding out when the money runs out will he have to move.
    I think the discussion about care when older should be talked about a lot sooner, its a trade off, if your children want the money they are going to have to supply a certain amount of support, that's if you have assets to leave.
    My step-father was a tight fisted old ***, you would have had to cart out unconscious before he would have paid to be in a home. He employed a housekeeper and I was speaking to someone last week who is being paid to house and granny sit, the cost about the same as a weeks care home fees in my area.
    Originally posted by honeyend
    That is the advantage of being in a position to self fund from assets other than your home, you have a much wider range of choice of what happens to you. I am with your step father, we plan to keep enough of your savings back to be able to afford to pay for support to stay in our own home if at all possible, and pay for good quality residencial care if not. Under no circumstances are we going to be reliant on whatever LA care is available at some unknown time in the future, and neither of us plan to have to provide care for each other in our old age either.

    If none of that is needed then our children will benefit from a bigger inheritance and HMRC will benefit through IHT.
    Last edited by Keep pedalling; 07-10-2017 at 7:39 PM.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 7th Oct 17, 5:27 PM
    • 1,652 Posts
    • 1,985 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    Hi all - this is my first post here, so please be gentle to me!

    My dad is about to move into a care home. His assets are around £50k in the bank, plus he owns his flat, worth about £150k. He recently updated his will, to equal shares between my brother and I. The big question now is obviously what can be done to avoid the £50k and potentially the £150k going on care home fees?

    Thanks for any advice.
    Les
    Before the last election, the Tory manifesto included a proposal to increase the 'ring-fenced' amount from £23K (£24K?) to £100K, meaning that your dad would have been left with at least £100k that the care home couldn't touch.

    Unfortunately, it wasn't to be.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 08-10-2017 at 12:45 PM.
    • LHW99
    • By LHW99 7th Oct 17, 5:35 PM
    • 896 Posts
    • 740 Thanks
    LHW99
    Look into Immediate Care Needs Annuities. They would take a goodly proportion of the available funds, but could leave something over for investment.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 8th Oct 17, 1:55 AM
    • 10,318 Posts
    • 6,614 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Look into Immediate Care Needs Annuities. They would take a goodly proportion of the available funds, but could leave something over for investment.
    Originally posted by LHW99
    A reasonable suggestion but on the sums quoted by the OP I'd have thought there wouldn't be anything left.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

79Posts Today

2,592Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • I was surprised to see the three people in front of me in the newsagents were all shocked their old £1 coins were no longer taken.

  • RT @natdebtline: If you?ve been visited by a bailiff since April 2014 we want to hear your story for our #bailiffreform campaign https://t.?

  • Well so far it seems there's one thing remainers and leavers agree on - the EU is getting the better of the negotia? https://t.co/70z5ffpG8S

  • Follow Martin