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  • FIRST POST
    • mariejader
    • By mariejader 19th Jul 17, 10:37 AM
    • 395Posts
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    mariejader
    S106 - CIL charging
    • #1
    • 19th Jul 17, 10:37 AM
    S106 - CIL charging 19th Jul 17 at 10:37 AM
    Looking for urgent advice please,

    In 2015 we submitted a planning application to our local council (via an agent) this was a few weeks after the new CIL charging system was introduced into our area.

    The planning application went through very smoothly and everything was passed
    and approved within the timescales.

    To cut a very long story short the exemption claim form was not submitted, although a tick box was checked saying we wished to claim the exemption.

    We started the build and are now being hounded to pay the CIL charge, I queried why I had a bill as my understanding of the CIL system at the time was that as we are not developers just private people as long as we lived in the house for three years after completion we would be exempt. It was at this point which was a year down the road of the planning being submitted that I was told the necessary paperwork had not been completed and that we were now liable.

    At no stage through this process were we advised that the necessary forms had not been received by the local council, (I have since found two other cases that also failed to complete the required form but the local council contacted the agents/owners of these properties to advise them they need to complete more documents before they can commence any works) if we had been advised of this then obviously the forms would have been sent in and I would not have a £24k bill hanging over me.

    Can anyone advise if there is any form of code of conduct that is required in dealing with these matters, it does not seem fair that we have not been treated the same as the other two cases and nothing can be done about it.

    I really need help with this situation as a matter of urgency, I am being advised that I could get a prison sentence, I don't have the means to pay this money and it's now starting to affect my health.


    We have just had the appeal stage 2 rejected so need some answers quickly

    Thank you in advance.
    Last edited by mariejader; 19-07-2017 at 10:38 AM. Reason: spelling
Page 1
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 19th Jul 17, 11:18 AM
    • 23,965 Posts
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    Doozergirl
    • #2
    • 19th Jul 17, 11:18 AM
    • #2
    • 19th Jul 17, 11:18 AM
    Local Government Ombudsman?

    Local MP?

    Local councillor, even?

    I'd ask anyone for support that I could think of and I'd probably start with my MP.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 19-07-2017 at 11:22 AM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 19th Jul 17, 11:59 AM
    • 1,014 Posts
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    teneighty
    • #3
    • 19th Jul 17, 11:59 AM
    • #3
    • 19th Jul 17, 11:59 AM
    Surely you have a claim against your agent for failing to complete the exemption forms, that is standard practice these days and the new CIL rules were widely publicised when they were introduced.

    Failing that I wonder if it would be worth submitting a new planning application with the correct exemption forms. The petty jobsworths at the Council will probably be satisfied once they have the correct paperwork so they can tick the required boxes. Probably worth speaking to a local planning consultant to get some expert advice.
    Last edited by teneighty; 08-09-2017 at 8:36 AM.
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 19th Jul 17, 7:39 PM
    • 1,408 Posts
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    parking_question_chap
    • #4
    • 19th Jul 17, 7:39 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Jul 17, 7:39 PM

    Failing that I wonder if it would be worth submitting a new planning application with the correct exemption forms.
    Originally posted by teneighty

    I am pretty sure exemption forms are required before the development commences.

    And to pick up on a quote in the original post "At no stage through this process were we advised that the necessary forms had not been received by the local council". I does seem like you want to shift the blame, its not up for the local authority to chase everybody who might want to claim exemption for their forms. Its either your or your agents responsibility to get your form in.

    You claim other developers were treated differently, this might be some kind of leverage, but I think you would need solid evidence of this.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 19th Jul 17, 9:52 PM
    • 23,562 Posts
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    Davesnave
    • #5
    • 19th Jul 17, 9:52 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Jul 17, 9:52 PM
    What's key here is probably how you were meant to obtain the relevant form.

    Most forms etc are now available on-line, so that one does not have to wait for a council officer to send a form when a box has been ticked. Assuming that is the case here, you would be expected to show due diligence by downloading the form, reading the completion instructions and submitting it in a timely manner.

    However, if there is also a box on the application form to tick to claim exemption from the CIL, what is the council expected to do when it's ticked, and did they do it? They cannot easily argue that it needs no action, as what would be the point of it?

    Part of good government is designing systems that will be self-checking, so that problems like this are minimised. While it isn't the council's job to chase after every forgetful applicant, nor is it clever to set up a situation where someone who hasn't the money and isn't really liable, to be punished with a £24k fine. A lot of administative time will be wasted in not having it paid.

    CIL was new and maybe it has shaken down a little now. Your best hope is to get chapter & verse on the other cases you mention, give them to your MP and ask if they'll intervene on your behalf.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • mariejader
    • By mariejader 20th Jul 17, 11:04 PM
    • 395 Posts
    • 2,995 Thanks
    mariejader
    • #6
    • 20th Jul 17, 11:04 PM
    • #6
    • 20th Jul 17, 11:04 PM
    Thank you for your reply's I have been to MP still waiting his response, just about to do the next appeal stage 3.

    I have evidence of the other two applications which is why I feel it is unfair that I have not been treated in the same way.

    I did not complete the forms and they were submitted on my behalf, I am not a builder and don't know the first thing about the planning procedures. As I am the home owner I am liable apparently for this charge but how am I to know that an error had been made if I was not told if I had had the same level of service as the other two cases then I would not now be in this situation!! this system seems so unfair.

    I really hoping that someone can advise if there is any documents I can look up regarding duty of care, surely all cases should be treated the same.
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 21st Jul 17, 8:39 AM
    • 1,014 Posts
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    teneighty
    • #7
    • 21st Jul 17, 8:39 AM
    • #7
    • 21st Jul 17, 8:39 AM
    So your main complaint is that you have been treated differently to the other 2 cases rather than the actual imposition of the CIL? I am struggling to understand why you didn't query the CIL when you first got your planning permission. Are you out of time to appeal the planning decision?

    I had a quick look at the Local Government Ombudsman website and there are lots of decision regarding CIL. I only scanned through the first page which were not good from your point of view. Having had dealings with LGO in the past I wouldn't hold out much hope. All they seem to focus on is were the Council's official procedures and statutory obligations followed.

    I really think you need professional help on this one, probably the best person would be a local planning consultant as I said before.

    Oh and yes parking question chap is right, I just looked at the forms and the exemption must be applied for before work starts so my idea was a non-starter.
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 21st Jul 17, 9:14 AM
    • 3,184 Posts
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    martinsurrey
    • #8
    • 21st Jul 17, 9:14 AM
    • #8
    • 21st Jul 17, 9:14 AM
    This system seems so unfair.

    I really hoping that someone can advise if there is any documents I can look up regarding duty of care, surely all cases should be treated the same.
    Originally posted by mariejader
    Have you reviewed every planning document and every bit of correspondence between the council and the other parties in the other 2 cases (which may not even be public documents)?

    Maybe they had ticked the right box on the planning application to say they would be claiming a CIL exemption, which prompted the council to chase the paperwork, but your application didn't indicate a desire to claim a CIL exemption so no chase was sent out?

    Unless you are 100% confidant that your cases are 100% the same you wont win a procedural argument.
    • mariejader
    • By mariejader 21st Jul 17, 10:30 AM
    • 395 Posts
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    mariejader
    • #9
    • 21st Jul 17, 10:30 AM
    • #9
    • 21st Jul 17, 10:30 AM
    Have you reviewed every planning document and every bit of correspondence between the council and the other parties in the other 2 cases (which may not even be public documents)?

    Maybe they had ticked the right box on the planning application to say they would be claiming a CIL exemption, which prompted the council to chase the paperwork, but your application didn't indicate a desire to claim a CIL exemption so no chase was sent out?

    Unless you are 100% confidant that your cases are 100% the same you wont win a procedural argument.
    Originally posted by martinsurrey
    On my application the box was ticked indicating that we wanted to claim the exemption, unfortunately the exemption form was not submitted at the time, as I did not complete the forms I had no way of knowing that this form had not been received, which is why I am upset that I have not been treated the same as the other two applications.
    Last edited by mariejader; 21-07-2017 at 10:35 AM. Reason: additonal info
    • mariejader
    • By mariejader 8th Aug 17, 10:27 AM
    • 395 Posts
    • 2,995 Thanks
    mariejader
    So your main complaint is that you have been treated differently to the other 2 cases rather than the actual imposition of the CIL? I am struggling to understand why you didn't query the CIL when you first got your planning permission.

    I really think you need professional help on this one, probably the best person would be a local planning consultant as I said before.

    Oh and yes parking question chap is right, I just looked at the forms and the exemption must be applied for before work starts so my idea was a non-starter.
    Originally posted by teneighty
    I did query it with the agent and was told we were exempt as long as we lived in the house three years after completion.
    • wantonnoodle
    • By wantonnoodle 8th Aug 17, 12:24 PM
    • 214 Posts
    • 147 Thanks
    wantonnoodle
    On my application the box was ticked indicating that we wanted to claim the exemption, unfortunately the exemption form was not submitted at the time, as I did not complete the forms I had no way of knowing that this form had not been received, which is why I am upset that I have not been treated the same as the other two applications.
    Originally posted by mariejader
    Surely therefore your claim should be with the agent who completed the paperwork, rather than with the authorities? I would consider that it may end up that you need to pay the bill, then counter-claim against the agent for the cost of losses.
    • mariejader
    • By mariejader 7th Sep 17, 10:14 PM
    • 395 Posts
    • 2,995 Thanks
    mariejader
    Thank you all for your reply's, we are now awaiting an answer from the Ombudsman which hopefully should be any day now.

    Yesterday I received a telephone call from the Council advising that they would be visiting my property today and issuing a stop notice.

    Today I come home from work to find a "Stop notice warning letter" which was laminated and attached to a piece of wood which had been hammered into my front garden, this was placed next to the footpath with my personal details along with the fact that we are in debt to the council X amount.

    Two copies were also put through my letter box, followed up by an email which advised the time the notice was served where it was placed and it also stated that they had identified themselves to my neighbour and they quoted his house number!!!

    Please can anyone advise if I need to leave this notice out as it's unclear if it needs to be on full display to the world and it's wife, I am worried if I remove it we will incur more fines?

    As this case is now with the Ombudsman in is still in dispute I am also wondering if there still should be some hold on the case?

    As you can appreciate I am now very upset as all my neighbours will now know my business plus any passers by, surely this breaches data protection rules?

    Please can anyone advise if I need to leave this notice up? there is no information on it stating that it needs to be on public display to the world and it wife. I am worried if I remove it we will incur more fines?
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