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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Megan F
    • By MSE Megan F 19th Jul 17, 8:27 AM
    • 198Posts
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    MSE Megan F
    MSE News: Government to ban ALL extra charges for paying by credit or debit card
    • #1
    • 19th Jul 17, 8:27 AM
    MSE News: Government to ban ALL extra charges for paying by credit or debit card 19th Jul 17 at 8:27 AM
    Companies will be banned from charging ANY fees for credit or debit card payments from early next year...
    Read the full story:
    'Government to ban ALL extra charges for paying by credit or debit card'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you havent already, join the forum to reply. If you arent sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.
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Page 3
    • EarthBoy
    • By EarthBoy 3rd Jan 18, 1:01 PM
    • 1,778 Posts
    • 1,096 Thanks
    EarthBoy
    Thanks. It's wrong that 3, EE etc charge 3.50 for any payment method except direct debit. It takes choice away from people and forces customers to do it how providers want.
    Originally posted by aj23

    Don't be surprised if your phone company decides that they will no longer accept credit or debit card payments in future.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 3rd Jan 18, 1:29 PM
    • 6,082 Posts
    • 6,110 Thanks
    eskbanker
    Thanks. It's wrong that 3, EE etc charge 3.50 for any payment method except direct debit. It takes choice away from people and forces customers to do it how providers want.
    Originally posted by aj23
    It doesn't take choice away, the choices are still there but some are priced higher than others, reflecting the higher cost of offering these - would you complain to your local supermarket that they take away consumer choice by selling branded baked beans at a higher price than their own-brand ones?

    The new legislation on card charges is more likely to suppress competition by (continuing the analogy) telling supermarkets they have to sell all baked beans at the same price, therefore some will elect not to offer such a broad range....
    • tastyhog
    • By tastyhog 3rd Jan 18, 3:03 PM
    • 266 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    tastyhog
    Don't be surprised if your phone company decides that they will no longer accept credit or debit card payments in future.
    Originally posted by EarthBoy
    Now, that's not going to.happen.

    Especially considering actual charges for taking cards have been reduced down to less than .5% which makes it 5p per 10 payment
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 3rd Jan 18, 3:12 PM
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    PeacefulWaters
    Now, that's not going to.happen.

    Especially considering actual charges for taking cards have been reduced down to less than .5% which makes it 5p per 10 payment
    Originally posted by tastyhog
    That's only part of the charges.
    • EarthBoy
    • By EarthBoy 3rd Jan 18, 6:13 PM
    • 1,778 Posts
    • 1,096 Thanks
    EarthBoy
    Now, that's not going to.happen
    Originally posted by tastyhog
    Don't bet on it. HMRC have already announced they're no longer accepting personal credit cards because they can no longer charge a fee for them, so I expect other companies to stop accepting them as well.

    Thanks. It's wrong that 3, EE etc charge 3.50 for any payment method except direct debit. It takes choice away from people and forces customers to do it how providers want.
    Originally posted by aj23
    If that's EE's policy then you should expect this to continue. It's not a charge for paying by credit card as such, it's a charge for paying by any method other than direct debit. If they make the same charge for cheque payments or bank transfers they won't be breaking the new rules.
    Last edited by EarthBoy; 03-01-2018 at 6:17 PM.
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 3rd Jan 18, 6:24 PM
    • 2,842 Posts
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    BoGoF
    HMRC are different in that they are not a business that can increase prices to absord the cost.
    • aj23
    • By aj23 3rd Jan 18, 7:14 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    aj23
    I don't think they can, because if a direct debit fails then that leaves the customer with no way to pay. Happened to me last month when the bank stopped o2 taking the direct debit, then o2 threatened a late payment fee unless I paid it by card online.
    • aj23
    • By aj23 3rd Jan 18, 7:18 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    aj23
    It doesn't take choice away, the choices are still there but some are priced higher than others, reflecting the higher cost of offering these - would you complain to your local supermarket that they take away consumer choice by selling branded baked beans at a higher price than their own-brand ones?

    The new legislation on card charges is more likely to suppress competition by (continuing the analogy) telling supermarkets they have to sell all baked beans at the same price, therefore some will elect not to offer such a broad range....
    Originally posted by eskbanker
    You're not making coherent comparisons.

    o2 doesn't charge you extra for your payment method. But Three will charge you 5 for non direct debit payments, even online payments and card payments. EE will charge 3.50 for all non-direct payments.

    It forces people to be on direct debit when they don't want to be, as the provider can add other charges and just take the money. That does take choice away, and in fact, takes control away as well. It doesn't cost 5 to process a cheque, a card payment or cash payment. It's about increasing profits and not absorbing normal costs.
    • aj23
    • By aj23 3rd Jan 18, 7:20 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    aj23
    Don't bet on it. HMRC have already announced they're no longer accepting personal credit cards because they can no longer charge a fee for them, so I expect other companies to stop accepting them as well.



    If that's EE's policy then you should expect this to continue. It's not a charge for paying by credit card as such, it's a charge for paying by any method other than direct debit. If they make the same charge for cheque payments or bank transfers they won't be breaking the new rules.
    Originally posted by EarthBoy
    Not breaking the rules, but morally I think it's wrong, as it takes choice and control away from the customer. If a customer wants to pay by cheque in the post, cash in store or the bank, debit/credit card in store or online, or electronic transfer, they shouldn't be charged 5 by Three or 3.50 by EE and ID to do so. Never used to, it's all about making money and being convenient for them. They don't care about the customer, they only care about squeezing money out of them.
    • EarthBoy
    • By EarthBoy 3rd Jan 18, 7:54 PM
    • 1,778 Posts
    • 1,096 Thanks
    EarthBoy
    Not breaking the rules, but morally I think it's wrong, as it takes choice and control away from the customer.
    Originally posted by aj23
    It doesn't remove your choice; you can always choose to change to O2 instead, if you don't like the payment methods specified by your current provider.

    All businesses limit your freedom to pay to a certain degree. For example, some people want to pay by cheque but no shops accept them now, so they have to pay a different way.
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 3rd Jan 18, 9:10 PM
    • 7,550 Posts
    • 9,459 Thanks
    PeacefulWaters
    If a customer wants to pay by cheque in the post
    ... they should be given a slap and advised that we are now well into the 21st century.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 4th Jan 18, 12:27 AM
    • 6,082 Posts
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    eskbanker
    You're not making coherent comparisons.

    o2 doesn't charge you extra for your payment method. But Three will charge you 5 for non direct debit payments, even online payments and card payments. EE will charge 3.50 for all non-direct payments.

    It forces people to be on direct debit when they don't want to be, as the provider can add other charges and just take the money. That does take choice away, and in fact, takes control away as well. It doesn't cost 5 to process a cheque, a card payment or cash payment. It's about increasing profits and not absorbing normal costs.
    Originally posted by aj23
    You're still missing the point, which is that it doesn't "force people to be on direct debit", it just makes that option cheaper, which, whether you like it or not, reflects the varying costs of accepting payments by different methods. The fact that some companies choose to structure their prices differently is irrelevant and you have no idea how much it costs a business to take payment by different methods, once the fully-loaded figures are used (credit control and other staff, merchant fees, bad debt provisions, fraud-related costs, etc, etc).

    As for your assertion that "the provider can add other charges and just take the money", that's what the Direct Debit Guarantee is there for, although why someone would willingly sign up with a company that they believe is going to rip them off beats me....
    • aj23
    • By aj23 4th Jan 18, 9:40 AM
    • 83 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    aj23
    It doesn't remove your choice; you can always choose to change to O2 instead, if you don't like the payment methods specified by your current provider.

    All businesses limit your freedom to pay to a certain degree. For example, some people want to pay by cheque but no shops accept them now, so they have to pay a different way.
    Originally posted by EarthBoy
    I am with o2. I'm not happy with them but because the other providers charge for non-direct debit payments it stops me from switching. Shops are different to service providers. Lots of people still use cheques to pay bills, and i don't think we should be charged handling fees for them. They should absorb the cost in their swelling profits.
    • aj23
    • By aj23 4th Jan 18, 9:41 AM
    • 83 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    aj23
    ... they should be given a slap and advised that we are now well into the 21st century.
    Originally posted by PeacefulWaters
    Where half a billion cheques are still written....... Makes me laugh when people who don't use them get all offended they still exist. Doesn't impact you so why do you care.
    Last edited by aj23; 04-01-2018 at 10:06 AM.
    • aj23
    • By aj23 4th Jan 18, 9:48 AM
    • 83 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    aj23
    You're still missing the point, which is that it doesn't "force people to be on direct debit", it just makes that option cheaper, which, whether you like it or not, reflects the varying costs of accepting payments by different methods. The fact that some companies choose to structure their prices differently is irrelevant and you have no idea how much it costs a business to take payment by different methods, once the fully-loaded figures are used (credit control and other staff, merchant fees, bad debt provisions, fraud-related costs, etc, etc).

    As for your assertion that "the provider can add other charges and just take the money", that's what the Direct Debit Guarantee is there for, although why someone would willingly sign up with a company that they believe is going to rip them off beats me....
    Originally posted by eskbanker
    I'm not missing the point. They choose to charge for all non direct debit payments which makes it cheaper. Direct debit in itself is not cheaper. It's a payment method like any other which solely benefits the provider. We run a business and we don't charge for any payment methods, nor does it cost us to administrate any payment methods either, and 75% of our credits and debits are done by cheque. It doesn't cost 5 for Three Mobile to process a debit/credit card, a BACS payment or a cheque. It's a service charge which they make profit on. They even charge for paying in cash to an e-transfer.

    You say why would someone sign up to a company they believe will rip them off, how on earth would you know? o2 have stung me several times for their errors which they have charged me for and taken as it's a direct debit which I had to fight to get refunded back to me afterwards; I didn't know they would do that when I signed up to them. What a stupid thing to say. Goes back to me not being able to control what they wrongly charge for and automatically take.
    • tastyhog
    • By tastyhog 4th Jan 18, 10:49 AM
    • 266 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    tastyhog
    That's only part of the charges.
    Originally posted by PeacefulWaters
    what other charges are there considering payments in to a bank account or credit card are reconciled and lodged against an account automatically, the same way as direct debits are.

    or do you think there a room full of people going through bank statements and then lodging a payment against some paper files of customers
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 4th Jan 18, 12:13 PM
    • 7,550 Posts
    • 9,459 Thanks
    PeacefulWaters
    what other charges are there considering payments in to a bank account or credit card are reconciled and lodged against an account automatically, the same way as direct debits are.

    or do you think there a room full of people going through bank statements and then lodging a payment against some paper files of customers
    Originally posted by tastyhog
    A bank (or other provider) will charge a retailer in addition to any interchange fees for accepting card payments. Including the cost of terminals.

    Smaller retailers get charged more on the whole.

    No need for the sarcastic nonsense.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 4th Jan 18, 1:33 PM
    • 6,082 Posts
    • 6,110 Thanks
    eskbanker
    I am with o2. I'm not happy with them but because the other providers charge for non-direct debit payments it stops me from switching.
    Originally posted by aj23
    ....which is entirely your prerogative but you seem to struggle with the concept that you are making a conscious decision from a range of choices. Just because you happen to prefer some options over others doesn't mean that you don't have a choice, so you're not being forced to do something or stopped from switching, it's your own choice, which is of course how it should be....
    • aj23
    • By aj23 4th Jan 18, 3:12 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    aj23
    ....which is entirely your prerogative but you seem to struggle with the concept that you are making a conscious decision from a range of choices. Just because you happen to prefer some options over others doesn't mean that you don't have a choice, so you're not being forced to do something or stopped from switching, it's your own choice, which is of course how it should be....
    Originally posted by eskbanker
    I'm not struggling with any concept. It's my choice to want to move away from 02, however other providers only provide one 'free' payment method (I use the term 'free' very loosely as I am still paying for a service) whereas at the moment I have two/three options available to me with 02: direct debit, online card payment or cheque in the post.

    Example: 02 failed to take my direct debit for 6 in December, so they gave me 7 days to pay it else I would get a 3.50 late payment fee. I did pay it within 7 days (just about, as I was at sea), no card fee. However, it that was Three, EE or ID, they would have charged me 5 by Three or 3.50 by EE and ID to make the card payment online despite them not taking the direct debit, so I would have paid over 50% more because of their error. And if I hadn't have paid within 7 days (which nearly happened owing to my location), that would have been a 3.50 late fee on top of it, so I would end up paying over double my airtime balance because of their error.

    My my point was, and still is, that providers shouldn't be charging for payment methods which in their opinion don't suit them. Lots of people don't like being on direct debit, but feel they have no option else they are financially penalized for paying with other methods, including electronic ones. It doesn't cost them money to accept electronic payments for example, so it's 100% profit charging people for it.
    • EarthBoy
    • By EarthBoy 4th Jan 18, 8:09 PM
    • 1,778 Posts
    • 1,096 Thanks
    EarthBoy
    I'm not struggling with any concept. It's my choice to want to move away from 02, however other providers only provide one 'free' payment method (I use the term 'free' very loosely as I am still paying for a service) whereas at the moment I have two/three options available to me with 02: direct debit, online card payment or cheque in the post..
    Originally posted by aj23
    You are struggling, and failing to see it. You have the choice to change mobile phone supplier; no-one is stopping you from doing so. However, you have chosen to stay with O2, despite not liking them, because you don't like the payment charges that other providers make. You have a choice of poor service with no payment charges or better service with payment charges and you've chosen the former option. That's your choice, and you're free to make that choice, but don't try and pretend that you don't have a choice, when you clearly do.
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