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    • Jumpman30
    • By Jumpman30 17th Jul 17, 10:59 AM
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    Jumpman30
    Private seller question
    • #1
    • 17th Jul 17, 10:59 AM
    Private seller question 17th Jul 17 at 10:59 AM
    Hi all, I think this is the right place for this post.

    Just a quick rundown of what happened:
    I advertised my iPhone 6 Plus on the Facebook marketplace, within hours it had a lot of interest. The person who bought it came round, paid cash in hand AFTER I turned it on, showed him it worked perfectly and offered him to use it.

    We exchanged money and product. Lovely, job done. I gave him a courteous message hours later, just to double check he was happy. He said everything is fine.

    Fast forward a couple of days, he messages me saying the phone is not working as expected. He said there is a problem with the touch screen function, even though it had been working perfectly fine when I had used it.

    He tells me he is going to come to the location he bought it from and give it back and get his money back. I told him I wouldn't be in at the time he said he was coming. Low and behold, I get a message from him saying he had been round, and I wasn't in (shock horror) and that he had put 2 A4 notes through the door. I was not happy about this move at all.

    After that, I told him that was wrong of him and that the location he picked up the phone from isn't even my address as I didn't want him coming to my house unannounced ever again.

    Following that, he told me just to issue him a receipt as a PDF, and he will write it off and claim a broken device on insurance, which I thought ok, that works. So I send him the receipt, minus my address as I didn't feel comfortable giving that to him given his antics before. On receiving the receipt, he complained my address wasn't on there, so I made him promise no more visits, which he agreed too. Even then, I put my old address as I still didn't get the need for him to have my address.

    A week or 2 later, I receive a message from him saying he has posted the phone to the address provided?! And that someone has signed for it (I now need to go to my old house to collect it). Very inconvenient and out of order considering we agreed it was sorted. He has also 'threatened' to come to my 'house' after I told him he was wrong for pulling this and I don't currently have the money to pay him back.

    So my question is, where do I stand on this? He said the police informed him he is carrying a stolen phone unless he gets my address. I don't believe they either said that or that he spoke to them.

    So what should by my next steps? Do I give his money back? To be honest, before all of these shenanigans I was open to it, as I am a fair guy, but after all this, I'm not so sure..

    TL;DR guy bought my working phone from Facebook marketplace. Claims it didn't work even though it did when I sold it, sent the phone back to me, at the wrong address and is demanding money back by threatening coming round.
Page 1
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 17th Jul 17, 11:17 AM
    • 18,640 Posts
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    wealdroam
    • #2
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:17 AM
    • #2
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:17 AM
    If you ever get to see this allegedly faulty phone, you will need to check the IEMI number matches the phone you sold.

    You do know the IEMI of the phone you sold don't you?
    If not, will you be able to tell that he is returning the same phone?
    • Jumpman30
    • By Jumpman30 17th Jul 17, 11:24 AM
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    Jumpman30
    • #3
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:24 AM
    • #3
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:24 AM
    I know the IMEI number. I bought it from the Apple Store and got the receipt emailed to me, so it's on there. I also included it on the receipt I sent to him.
    • NotRichAtAll
    • By NotRichAtAll 17th Jul 17, 11:31 AM
    • 643 Posts
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    NotRichAtAll
    • #4
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:31 AM
    • #4
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:31 AM
    sent the phone back to me, at the wrong address
    cannot really blame him for that, your the one that provided him with it.

    So there are 2 possibilities in this deal
    1. you sold him a phone knowing there was something wrong with it and are playing dumb to the fact. 2. you sold him a good phone and he is playing you.

    can i be nosey and ask how much money is involved?

    If this was my deal and i had sold him a good working phone i would stand my ground and say tough you were happy with it when you tried it. if on the other hand i had sold him a phone with an issue and i had failed to tell him of this issue i would be looking for a stress free solution and that would be a refund with the return of my phone.

    hope you do have the iemi number at hand to check it is your phone, i tend to take a piccy of mine so i always have them at hand.

    good luck
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 17th Jul 17, 11:32 AM
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    pinkshoes
    • #5
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:32 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:32 AM
    I would tell him that you have since moved, so this is the incorrect address to send anything to as you are no longer there, so if he has sent it to this address, he will need to go and retrieve it as you did not supply a return address.

    I would then state that you do not wish to give out your current address due to him turning up unannounced, but will meet him in <public place> and will issue him with a refund once you have verified it is the correct phone and has not been damaged by him.

    Whose address did you use to sell it from?

    As you used a 'fake' address to sell it from it does scream of scam...

    And as he has gone to the effort to return it, it probably is faulty...
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Jumpman30
    • By Jumpman30 17th Jul 17, 11:38 AM
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    Jumpman30
    • #6
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:38 AM
    • #6
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:38 AM
    The price was £280 for a perfectly working 6 plus 128GB. It wasn't faulty. I used it in front of him and showed him it working... I'm not blaming him for getting the wrong address, as I provided to him. I'm blaming him for sending it back at all as he said it was resolved after I issued a receipt and he said ok fine it's done with.

    I'll retrieve the phone myself, as I only live in the next town over. I originally met him at my address, but after having him turn up I told him it wasn't actually my place which he believed.

    Am I correct in saying I do not have to issue a refund, legally? He saw the goods in person and handed cash over after testing it.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 17th Jul 17, 11:53 AM
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    naedanger
    • #7
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:53 AM
    • #7
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:53 AM
    Am I correct in saying I do not have to issue a refund, legally?
    Originally posted by Jumpman30
    In theory yes, assuming the phone was not faulty when you sold it.

    In practice if the phone is now faulty, and the buyer takes you to court, it will depend on whether or not the court believes the phone was faulty when it was sold.
    • es5595
    • By es5595 17th Jul 17, 11:56 AM
    • 12 Posts
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    es5595
    • #8
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:56 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:56 AM
    It depends if you told them at the time it was sold as seen and what your facebook advert said. Since you showed it working et al before asking for payment I'd consider it sold as seen. I've had several iphones and I'm unsure of what fault would occur on the touch screen but which would not be apparent for several days...

    Going on 'NotRichAtAll's post, and if its option 2, I would cut off all contact with this person.
    Assuming you have a new iPhone, this is pretty easy. Inform them one final time that it was a 'done deal' and you no longer wish to have contact with them, block them from calling and texting you, this can be done direct from the iPhone, don't answer unknown numbers for a week or two, and simply wash your hands of it.

    However, if its option 1 and you sold them a dud, I'd come clean and look at rectifying.
    • TadleyBaggie
    • By TadleyBaggie 17th Jul 17, 12:42 PM
    • 2,302 Posts
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    TadleyBaggie
    • #9
    • 17th Jul 17, 12:42 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Jul 17, 12:42 PM
    The buyer has probably dropped it and it now has this known issue:
    https://www.apple.com/uk/support/iphone6plus-multitouch/
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 17th Jul 17, 12:47 PM
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    pinkshoes
    If you know the people at your previous address, then one option is to pick up the phone and see if it does work.

    If it does, then tell the person it is working perfectly and he needs to arrange to collect it or pay for it to be sent to him.

    Or inform the buyer that the phone was working when he collected it, he spent time inspecting the phone before purchasing, and that as it was a private sale, it was sold as seen. I would say that you did not authorise a return, and therefore have not issued him with a return address as it was a private sale. State that the address provided on the receipt was a random address to stop him turning up to your house again, so if he has sent it to this address, he will need to retrieve it.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 17th Jul 17, 1:44 PM
    • 10,950 Posts
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    unholyangel
    In theory yes, assuming the phone was not faulty when you sold it.

    In practice if the phone is now faulty, and the buyer takes you to court, it will depend on whether or not the court believes the phone was faulty when it was sold.
    Originally posted by naedanger
    Private sales don't have any stipulation about quality or fitness for purpose. The only relevant parts to private sales is that the seller must have good title and that the goods must be as described.

    So the buyer would have to prove the goods didn't match their description at the time of sale rather than the phone being faulty.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 17th Jul 17, 1:53 PM
    • 9,703 Posts
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    neilmcl
    Agree with the above, unless it was not as described then I'd be informing him to come and collect his phone. I have to say though all this shenanigans regarding your "address" does make you sound like a bit of a scammer.
    • Jumpman30
    • By Jumpman30 17th Jul 17, 2:44 PM
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    Jumpman30
    Agree with the above, unless it was not as described then I'd be informing him to come and collect his phone. I have to say though all this shenanigans regarding your "address" does make you sound like a bit of a scammer.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    I didn't scam anyone. I originally met him at my house, I later told him it wasn't mine as I didn't want him turning up againas originally mentioned. When he asked again for the purpose of insurance, as he assured it would be sorted that way, I just gave him my old address as I saw no reason for him to have my actual address. I originally only gave him my postcode and directed him where to go so that's the reason he wouldn't have known.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 17th Jul 17, 5:45 PM
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    naedanger
    Private sales don't have any stipulation about quality or fitness for purpose. The only relevant parts to private sales is that the seller must have good title and that the goods must be as described.

    So the buyer would have to prove the goods didn't match their description at the time of sale rather than the phone being faulty.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    I know. The op said at the point of sale they switched the phone on and showed the customer it worked perfectly. I doubt (and I suspect a court would doubt) they gave this demonstration without saying something to the effect that the phone was in proper (or even perfect) working order.
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 17th Jul 17, 5:53 PM
    • 12,989 Posts
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    arcon5
    Tell him you sold him a working phone and are not refunding. End it saying you'll be ignoring his communication thereon.

    Do tell him he's not having your address and the address you gave is not yours so he can go round and get it.

    But does he know your address? The address he picked it up from... is that yours and you've fobbed him off
    • NotRichAtAll
    • By NotRichAtAll 17th Jul 17, 5:55 PM
    • 643 Posts
    • 477 Thanks
    NotRichAtAll
    If you have nothing to hide then why all the cloak and dagger stuff, when i sell stuff i try to get local buyers only i invite them to collect or i will deliver i make sure they are happy with the item and i always make sure they see it working.
    What was wrong with him shoving a note through your letterbox? i'd of done the same if nobody was in or answered the door.
    i am begining to think theres more to this than meets the eye even if you have not got the money to refund him am sure an arrangement could be reached by both parties. By hiding or trying to avoid the situation your in makes me think you have sold the guy a dud and hes not a happy bunny.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 19th Jul 17, 1:57 AM
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    unholyangel
    I know. The op said at the point of sale they switched the phone on and showed the customer it worked perfectly. I doubt (and I suspect a court would doubt) they gave this demonstration without saying something to the effect that the phone was in proper (or even perfect) working order.
    Originally posted by naedanger
    That would help the buyer how? He'd be admitting it was working correctly. He seems to have reaffirmed this (that it was working fine) via message with OP hours later. His own evidence would indicate the phone was working (even if OP had given those assurances that it was in full working order) at the time of sale.

    As the phone worked with OP and with the new owner for the first few days, it would (imo) be more likely something the new owner has done/installed. And the burden would strictly be on the buyer to show it didn't match its description at time of sale. If its failed 3 days in, thats unfortunately one of the risks you take buying privately.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 19th Jul 17, 9:34 AM
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    naedanger
    That would help the buyer how? He'd be admitting it was working correctly. He seems to have reaffirmed this (that it was working fine) via message with OP hours later. His own evidence would indicate the phone was working (even if OP had given those assurances that it was in full working order) at the time of sale.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    I was not saying it would help the buyer. I was giving one reason why I took the view that the seller would have described the phone as being in proper working order at the point of sale.

    As the phone worked with OP and with the new owner for the first few days, it would (imo) be more likely something the new owner has done/installed. And the burden would strictly be on the buyer to show it didn't match its description at time of sale. If its failed 3 days in, thats unfortunately one of the risks you take buying privately.
    I think the above is consistent with my point that if the matter goes to court it will depend on whether or not the court believes the phone was faulty when it was sold.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 19th Jul 17, 1:37 PM
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    unholyangel
    I was not saying it would help the buyer. I was giving one reason why I took the view that the seller would have described the phone as being in proper working order at the point of sale.


    I think the above is consistent with my point that if the matter goes to court it will depend on whether or not the court believes the phone was faulty when it was sold.
    Originally posted by naedanger
    I know it might not be what you mean, but your wording.....again, the buyer has no rights for faulty goods. They need to prove that 1) x formed part of the description and 2) that the goods failed to match that description at the time of sale.

    That is something that can be extremely difficult to prove normally, never mind in these specific circumstances where the evidence seems to indicate the goods weren't of satisfactory quality rather than not meeting their description.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 19th Jul 17, 6:17 PM
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    naedanger
    I know it might not be what you mean, but your wording.....again, the buyer has no rights for faulty goods. They need to prove that 1) x formed part of the description and 2) that the goods failed to match that description at the time of sale.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    I meant what I said.

    I am not sure whether you have forgotten what I said in post 14 or don't understand the significance of what I said. Either way it is not important.

    That is something that can be extremely difficult to prove normally, never mind in these specific circumstances where the evidence seems to indicate the goods weren't of satisfactory quality rather than not meeting their description.
    Not sure how you can reach a view on whether the goods met their description when you don't know what description was given at the point of sale.
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