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  • FIRST POST
    • MulishaCircus
    • By MulishaCircus 16th Jul 17, 8:49 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 2Thanks
    MulishaCircus
    Appeal - IPC - CPEA Ltd
    • #1
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:49 PM
    Appeal - IPC - CPEA Ltd 16th Jul 17 at 8:49 PM
    Hello,

    Firstly a little background.
    Van was parked outside a building we were working in (tenant - not land owner)
    Came outside to a PCN
    Where the vehicle was parked had no signs stating any sort of restrictions. None as we drove into the "restricted area"
    I have gone back a day later to take photographs which I will attach to my email appeal.

    The signs stating the "restrictions" were further up this "restricted area" and at no point did we pass one of this signs in the vehicle either entering or parking up.

    This is a company van which is owned by the company (not mine)
    I will make my boss aware of this in case he gets an NTK.

    This is my own little appeal that I put together. I have read through the newbie sticky but I can be dense at the best of times and most of it confused me.

    This is an IPC affiliated PPC with their appeals process being handled by PCS.

    Re PCN number: XXXXXXXXX

    I am the keeper of the vehicle and am aware of your purported 'parking charge'. The driver will not be identified.

    The reason for issue of "1-Parked in a restricted area" does not apply to the vehicle in question as the area in which this particular vehicle was parked had no signs whatsoever.

    I now need from yourselves:

    1. A picture of the vehicle in question WITH the parking ticket on the windscreen
    2. A picture of the vehicle in question parked in view of a sign board clearly visible with font of a reasonable reading size.
    3 A picture of any entrance to the supposed "restricted area" where signs state parking restrictions.

    These pictures must be from the site where the PCN was issued. I will not accept similar/generic pictures of other sites your company cover.

    Below you will find attached images of evidence that we have gathered ourselves.

    I look forward to your reply.

    Sincerely
    XXXXX XXXXXX ??


    Have I got a strong case? and as I'm the keeper and not the registered keeper do I put my name in there at all?

    Many thanks for your help
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Jul 17, 8:54 PM
    • 16,570 Posts
    • 20,730 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:54 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:54 PM
    due to JUDGE BINGO, and an unregulated industry , NOBODY can tell anyone if they have a "good case"

    the PPC,s turn down over 90% of parking appeals , so it is unlikely that you or anyone else will get an appeal upheld , especially not by PCS (DRP)

    THERE IS NO PROFIT IN UPHOLDING AN APPEAL

    so no matter what you say , we expect a rejection, and so should you

    but yes appeal it, plus do not dob in the driver , the appeal comes from THE KEEPER/HIRER/LESSEE , with their name and address , pcn number etc
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jul 17, 8:54 PM
    • 51,575 Posts
    • 65,182 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:54 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:54 PM
    However, I like that appeal, and if they can't come up with photos of signs near the van, I would consider taking it to the IAS.

    It's rare for me to say that but if you can show no signage it would be perverse for the IAS to find against you (then again, bizarre and apparently heavily-biased decisions against people is the norm from them, from those we've seen).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MulishaCircus
    • By MulishaCircus 16th Jul 17, 9:02 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    MulishaCircus
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:02 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:02 PM
    They wont be able to show signage from the drivers POV as there were none. Sure they could have gotten a picture of the van and the sign in one picture but the writing would be unreadable from the Drivers POV and even standing under one of the signs to read it was a struggle for my near perfect vision.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 16th Jul 17, 9:54 PM
    • 10,205 Posts
    • 9,348 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:54 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:54 PM
    I would have added that they should provide a map with where they say the signs are.
    • MulishaCircus
    • By MulishaCircus 18th Jul 17, 12:01 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    MulishaCircus
    • #6
    • 18th Jul 17, 12:01 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Jul 17, 12:01 PM
    Hello.

    Today I received a response to the appeal I sent. This is what they have said...

    Thank you for your email regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

    Please note that we are only able to accept an appeal from the driver. Please either advise whether you were the driver or provide the full name and address of the driver.

    Kind Regards



    Peter Dawson
    Collections Manager


    Is that normal?

    Thanks
    • MulishaCircus
    • By MulishaCircus 18th Jul 17, 5:10 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    MulishaCircus
    • #7
    • 18th Jul 17, 5:10 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Jul 17, 5:10 PM
    I should also have added, what's the next step? Respond as keeper still as it's a company van. Give them my address and name or name myself as driver?

    I'm going to give my boss the heads up tomorrow.

    Thank you
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Jul 17, 11:56 PM
    • 51,575 Posts
    • 65,182 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 18th Jul 17, 11:56 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Jul 17, 11:56 PM
    Reply and say (without any 'Dear'):



    Mr Dawson,

    I trust you will be able to now to explain to David Dunford of the DVLA (who is copied into this email as a formal complaint against CPEA, seeing as the IPC appear to ignore complaints) why you are making the driver's details a requirement of appeal. Your email is reproduced below for Mr Dunford to see.

    I am entitled to appeal as the lessee/keeper of the car and there is no legal obligation upon me to name the driver. The DVLA reminded parking firms of this fact a few years ago, but if you are a new firm jumping on this particular bandwagon, perhaps you are unaware of the DVLA stipulation that it is unacceptable to refuse to consider an appeal from the a keeper, unfairly insisting on driver's details.

    In the POFA Bill Impact Statement in 2012, and during the various Bill readings in the House of Commons, it was held that it was not the will of Parliament to make naming the driver a requirement, for a mere private parking firm like CPEA, a mere small fish on a large pool of 'cowboy' (an MP's words this year in Parliament) firms who operate on the edges of legality.

    Further, as was held in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, where any alleged unauthorised parking - i.e. trespass - is concerned, this is a matter solely in the gift of the landowner under tort, who could recover nominal damages only. ParkingEye Ltd could not recover damages, and nor can CPEA. You have failed to make any contractual offer and no consideration flowed between yourselves and the driver of the vehicle.

    Kindly cancel the PCN and then explain to the DVLA the steps you will be taking to avoid such a misleading and disingenuous reply for other victims of your scam unsolicited invoices, moving forward.

    If you refuse to cancel the PCN, for the purposes of open dealings and transparency, I require that CPEA include in your reply (for myself and for Mr Dunford's perusal - kindly continue to copy the DVLA in, since this is a formal complaint) all of your photographic evidence. I am told that this was not marked as a restricted area at all; no signs were near the vehicle and this was certainly not signed as a 'restricted area' for loading/unloading, or even parking.

    yours faithfully,


    Your name and address



    email to cc in:

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 19-07-2017 at 12:02 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MulishaCircus
    • By MulishaCircus 19th Jul 17, 7:31 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    MulishaCircus
    • #9
    • 19th Jul 17, 7:31 AM
    • #9
    • 19th Jul 17, 7:31 AM
    Greatly appreciated. I'll update with any further correspondence
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