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    • Ben Richards
    • By Ben Richards 16th Jul 17, 8:39 PM
    • 17Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Ben Richards
    WY parking enforcement / Gladstones court papers - advice on line of attack!
    • #1
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:39 PM
    WY parking enforcement / Gladstones court papers - advice on line of attack! 16th Jul 17 at 8:39 PM
    Good evening all! Hope everyone had a good weekend!

    I previously posted on pepipoo re the LBC (wont let me post link as im a new user) and now the court papers have arrived! I would very much appreciate your opinions on the best line of fire.
    Overview - we received a £90 windscreen type NTD for an "overstay" (of 4 minutes 52 secs) in a pay and display car park. My wife was actually in the car park within time, but was 9 months pregnant and struggling. The "warden" could see her approaching / waving and entered into dialogue. My wife pointed out (although it was blindingly obvious!) That she was heavily pregnant, yet he responded by printing out the ticket and saying something along the lines of "well ive printed it now so your gonna have to pay".
    The ticket and all subsequent threats etc were ignored (i have done this successfully many times in the noughties and didnt realise general consensus had changed) and we then received the LBC to which i replied (in my pepipoo thread mentioned above, i could cut and paste from there?).
    We then received another demand which seemed to backtrack from the LBC. I replied to this with pictures of the laughable signage and an explanation that no contract could be formed as a result. We then recieved the court papers on Friday (i have already acknowledged on MCOL).
    So, on to the points of attack. I would be very greatful of any advice here, as im not sure which pointer is the strongest line and which are the best arguments from a legal standpoint -
    1.My wife was pregnant, which is a protected charectaristic.
    2.The warden made no effort to mitigate, he didnt adhere to the grace period for leaving.
    3.They have no idea who the driver was.
    4. The signs - these are absolutely dreadful, even by ppc standards. There are approx 10 signs in the car park, but only the 2 smallest mention WY Parking Enforcement. The bigger signs are either marked "Local Car Parks" or carry no ppc name or logo at all. Some state that the parking charge is £60 yet some £90. The obligatory small print about "the contract" isnt even there! There is no real indication that WY parking has anything to do with the site at all. I will do my best to upload pics of the signs asap.

    I have copies of every letter sent, pictures of all signs at the time, plus the original pay and display ticket and NTD.

    Thanks in advance everyone. Keep fighting the good fight
Page 1
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jul 17, 8:49 PM
    • 7,390 Posts
    • 7,547 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:49 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:49 PM
    4 minutes 52 secs is well within the recomended guidelines set by there ATA , which is the BPA , to quote : "You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave
    the private car park after the parking contract has ended,
    before you take enforcement action. "
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jul 17, 8:58 PM
    • 50,696 Posts
    • 64,105 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:58 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:58 PM
    Wow, LCP are a completely different company!

    WY Car Parks should be easy enough to beat, especially given the IPC (edit - correction = BPA) CoP about grace periods after paid-for time.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-07-2017 at 9:26 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jul 17, 9:00 PM
    • 7,390 Posts
    • 7,547 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:00 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:00 PM
    wy = bpa (I think ?)


    yup bpa , quiet as hell for many yrs but dipping toe this year (11)
    • Ben Richards
    • By Ben Richards 16th Jul 17, 9:01 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ben Richards
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:01 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:01 PM
    Yes, the paragraph (point 13.4 of current BPA code of practice) concludes "the grace period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes". Given the circumstances, this should have also been extended surely?
    • Ben Richards
    • By Ben Richards 16th Jul 17, 9:02 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ben Richards
    • #6
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:02 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:02 PM
    Yes WY parking is BPA
    • Ben Richards
    • By Ben Richards 16th Jul 17, 9:07 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ben Richards
    • #7
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:07 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:07 PM
    Thanks for speedy responses guys. In my initial defense (which i will begin to compile tomorrow) do i include pictures etc? Or do i save that for the witness statement?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Jul 17, 9:10 PM
    • 16,103 Posts
    • 20,159 Thanks
    Redx
    • #8
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:10 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:10 PM
    save all evidence , pictures and witness statements for later on

    read the BARGEPOLE posts linked in post #2 of the NEWBIES sticky thread

    and no matter which CoP they follow , your grace period is allowed under their rules , its well within time REGARDLESS of the lady`s "condition"

    but your defence will and should be based on more than grace periods
    Last edited by Redx; 16-07-2017 at 9:14 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jul 17, 9:10 PM
    • 7,390 Posts
    • 7,547 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #9
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:10 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:10 PM
    Yes, the paragraph (point 13.4 of current BPA code of practice) concludes "the grace period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes". Given the circumstances, this should have also been extended surely?
    Originally posted by Ben Richards
    extended?? hell they did not even meet it "4 minutes 52 secs"


    a complaint to the BPA me thinks ,
    • Ben Richards
    • By Ben Richards 17th Jul 17, 6:56 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ben Richards
    Ho guys,
    Question - according to POFA sections 7 and 8 the NTD / NTK both have to specify "the period of parking to which the notice relates". Does this mean it has to explicitly say the time period of the offence / in which the "offence" took place?
    Cheers y'all
    • Ben Richards
    • By Ben Richards 17th Jul 17, 6:57 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ben Richards
    For example - between x and y times?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Jul 17, 6:59 PM
    • 50,696 Posts
    • 64,105 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ho guys,
    Question - according to POFA sections 7 and 8 the NTD / NTK both have to specify "the period of parking to which the notice relates". Does this mean it has to explicitly say the time period of the offence / in which the "offence" took place?
    Cheers y'all
    Originally posted by Ben Richards
    No, that's not a winning point for POPLA.

    I doubt WY have managed to comply with 8(2)f of schedule 4, though.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ben Richards
    • By Ben Richards 17th Jul 17, 7:04 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ben Richards
    Cheers!
    There is no time period on either of these though. Just the time that the NTD was issued.
    Just getting to 8(2)f now!
    • Ben Richards
    • By Ben Richards 17th Jul 17, 7:09 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ben Richards
    BTW NTK was issued by "PCS" on behalf of WY parking
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Jul 17, 7:10 PM
    • 50,696 Posts
    • 64,105 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well recently PCS have actually improved their wording, so it might comply.

    No-one pays these scumbags though.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ben Richards
    • By Ben Richards 17th Jul 17, 7:14 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ben Richards
    Unfortunately it seems to on 8(f).
    8(g) is missing tho - there is no discount offered for prompt payment haha
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 17th Jul 17, 7:14 PM
    • 1,040 Posts
    • 2,074 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Just getting to 8(2)f now!
    This post will help you understand how, why and where a typical NTK is not PoFA compliant

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5096126#8
    • Ben Richards
    • By Ben Richards 17th Jul 17, 7:16 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ben Richards
    Cheers for that much appreciated
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Jul 17, 7:23 PM
    • 50,696 Posts
    • 64,105 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Unfortunately it seems to on 8(f).
    8(g) is missing tho - there is no discount offered for prompt payment haha
    Originally posted by Ben Richards
    It doesn't have to offer one. That's only about 'ANY' discount offered to the keeper.

    A recent PCS NTK will be compliant, IMHO.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ben Richards
    • By Ben Richards 17th Jul 17, 7:35 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ben Richards
    Ah ok cheers. All about the interpretation!
    That said, Does the "parking charge" on the NTK have to be the same as on the NTD as it had mysteriously flown up 30 quid? Thats the way im reading points 4 (5) - 7 (2)(c) - 8 (2)(c)
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