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    • theblagger
    • By theblagger 16th Jul 17, 6:53 PM
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    theblagger
    Freehold - Leasehold selling issue
    • #1
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:53 PM
    Freehold - Leasehold selling issue 16th Jul 17 at 6:53 PM
    Any one help

    House converted into 2 flats
    So 50% each freeholder (2 separate owners)

    Question , owner of one flat wants to sell , can it be sold if in a legal dispute , with other 50% freeholder?

    Thanks for any help on this
    tinfoil hat ...

    Derisive attempt on behalf of blind conformists to discredit and stigmatise those who dare to question authority, ill thought out policies, PR Stunts....
Page 1
    • jakieahmed
    • By jakieahmed 16th Jul 17, 7:14 PM
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    jakieahmed
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 17, 7:14 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 17, 7:14 PM
    Shouldn't you have to convert them to leasehold if you want two different persons to be owner?

    Converting it to leaseholder of 995 years or something higher would solve the issue
    • theblagger
    • By theblagger 16th Jul 17, 7:37 PM
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    theblagger
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 17, 7:37 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 17, 7:37 PM
    Shouldn't you have to convert them to leasehold if you want two different persons to be owner?

    Converting it to leaseholder of 995 years or something higher would solve the issue
    Originally posted by jakieahmed
    One of the flats is owned with the owner living there, the other flat has a tenant, the owner of the flat with tenant has decided to sell....however there are numerous both structural and maintenance issues that will come into play once it all starts to kick in (selling )...as certain issues have not been addressed by the absent landlord...therefore if there is a legal dispute between both owners , can the flat still be sold..?
    the freehold as far as Im aware is split between them
    tinfoil hat ...

    Derisive attempt on behalf of blind conformists to discredit and stigmatise those who dare to question authority, ill thought out policies, PR Stunts....
    • G_M
    • By G_M 16th Jul 17, 8:04 PM
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    G_M
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:04 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:04 PM
    Please clarify

    * each flat is subjecct to a lease yes?
    * The freehold is owned jointly be the 2 leaseholders yes?
    * how is it owned? Via a copany of which they are each shareholders? directly in their 2 names? Or....?

    Most buyers will want confirmation from the other joint freeholder that the leaseholder who is selling has paid ground rent, service charges etc up to date, as well as whether there are ther outstanding bills, or planned costly maintenance issues.

    As well as details of any disputes.

    The leaseholder can certainly sell. Whether the buyer will agree to buy once any issues aree made known is another matter!
    • theblagger
    • By theblagger 16th Jul 17, 8:10 PM
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    theblagger
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:10 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:10 PM
    Please clarify

    * each flat is subjecct to a lease yes? yes
    * The freehold is owned jointly be the 2 leaseholders yes? yes
    * how is it owned? Via a copany of which they are each shareholders? directly in their 2 names? Or....?

    Most buyers will want confirmation from the other joint freeholder that the leaseholder who is selling has paid ground rent, service charges etc up to date, as well as whether there are ther outstanding bills, or planned costly maintenance issues.

    As well as details of any disputes.

    The leaseholder can certainly sell. Whether the buyer will agree to buy once any issues aree made known is another matter!

    So does the buyer have to be made aware of the issues...? before they buy?
    tinfoil hat ...

    Derisive attempt on behalf of blind conformists to discredit and stigmatise those who dare to question authority, ill thought out policies, PR Stunts....
    • G_M
    • By G_M 16th Jul 17, 8:22 PM
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    G_M
    • #6
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:22 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:22 PM
    So does the buyer have to be made aware of the issues...? before they buy?
    Originally posted by theblagger
    Most buyers will want confirmation from the other joint freeholder that the leaseholder who is selling has paid ground rent, service charges etc up to date, as well as whether there are ther outstanding bills, or planned costly maintenance issues.
    • theblagger
    • By theblagger 16th Jul 17, 8:26 PM
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    theblagger
    • #7
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:26 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Jul 17, 8:26 PM
    Most buyers will want confirmation from the other joint freeholder that the leaseholder who is selling has paid ground rent, service charges etc up to date, as well as whether there are ther outstanding bills, or planned costly maintenance issues.
    Originally posted by G_M
    Thanks, can see loads of problems cropping up, the absent landlord has already fallen foul by not keeping deposit in a rent deposit scheme.
    tinfoil hat ...

    Derisive attempt on behalf of blind conformists to discredit and stigmatise those who dare to question authority, ill thought out policies, PR Stunts....
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 16th Jul 17, 9:24 PM
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    eddddy
    • #8
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:24 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:24 PM
    Thanks, can see loads of problems cropping up, the absent landlord has already fallen foul by not keeping deposit in a rent deposit scheme.
    Originally posted by theblagger
    That's not directly relevant to selling the property - except that it may make evicting the tenant more difficult.


    To give you a helpful answer, it would help to know your motivation for asking the question. For example, is it...

    - you are asking on behalf of the tenant, who doesn't want to be evicted.

    - you are asking on behalf of the seller, who has a troublesome neighbour

    - you are asking on behalf of the neighbour, who wants to persuade the seller to do something (like pay for repairs)

    - you are asking on behalf of the neighbour, who just wants to give the seller a hard time (e.g. out of spite).


    Then people may be able to give you advice on how to achieve your goal.
    • theblagger
    • By theblagger 16th Jul 17, 10:45 PM
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    theblagger
    • #9
    • 16th Jul 17, 10:45 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Jul 17, 10:45 PM
    That's not directly relevant to selling the property - except that it may make evicting the tenant more difficult.


    To give you a helpful answer, it would help to know your motivation for asking the question. For example, is it...

    - you are asking on behalf of the tenant, who doesn't want to be evicted.Yes

    - you are asking on behalf of the seller, who has a troublesome neighbour

    - you are asking on behalf of the neighbour, who wants to persuade the seller to do something (like pay for repairs) yes

    - you are asking on behalf of the neighbour, who just wants to give the seller a hard time (e.g. out of spite).


    Then people may be able to give you advice on how to achieve your goal.
    Originally posted by eddddy
    - you are asking on behalf of the tenant, who doesn't want to be evicted.Yes


    - you are asking on behalf of the neighbour, who wants to persuade the seller to do something (like pay for repairs) yes
    tinfoil hat ...

    Derisive attempt on behalf of blind conformists to discredit and stigmatise those who dare to question authority, ill thought out policies, PR Stunts....
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 17th Jul 17, 9:52 AM
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    eddddy
    - you are asking on behalf of the tenant, who doesn't want to be evicted.Yes


    - you are asking on behalf of the neighbour, who wants to persuade the seller to do something (like pay for repairs) yes
    Originally posted by theblagger
    So presumably you're the neighbour?

    It would be much easier to offer advice if you provided a sensible amount of information. But in the absence of details, I'll make some guesses:

    - You own the leasehold of a flat
    - You're neighbour owns the leasehold of another flat
    - You both jointly own the freehold


    If that's the case...

    - Your neighbour can sell their leasehold flat without any reference to you.
    ..... BUT evidence of disputes between neighbours, poor/missing information from the freeholders might worry some buyers.

    - To transfer the freehold (from 'you and neighbour' to 'you and buyer') requires your signature. So you can block the transfer of the freehold by refusing to sign.


    Your neighbour might cave in and do whatever it is you want them to do, but other possible outcomes include:

    - Your neighbour sells the leasehold flat cheaply to a cash buyer (maybe at auction)

    - Your neighbour walks away still jointly owning the freehold, leaving you with a big headache, when you come to sell.
    • theblagger
    • By theblagger 17th Jul 17, 11:08 AM
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    theblagger
    Also is it a criminal offence if the seller does not offer the other 50% freeholder first refusal on their 50% freehold when selling?
    tinfoil hat ...

    Derisive attempt on behalf of blind conformists to discredit and stigmatise those who dare to question authority, ill thought out policies, PR Stunts....
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 17th Jul 17, 11:59 AM
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    eddddy
    Also is it a criminal offence if the seller does not offer the other 50% freeholder first refusal on their 50% freehold when selling?
    Originally posted by theblagger
    That's an illogical question. (I guess you've read about the 'Right of First Refusal' and got confused.)

    FWIW, two people jointly own the freehold, so if a criminal offence is committed by the freeholder, both people would be guilty of it.

    You will get much better answers if you explain the situation and your goal.
    • theblagger
    • By theblagger 17th Jul 17, 1:04 PM
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    theblagger
    Here goes
    I am posting on behalf of a friend and their neighbour
    Tenant has been there 7 years with sibling
    New legalisation meant flat had to be lienced to LA in Dec 2016
    Done, but cost passed to tenant in the form of a rent increase (letter received explaining this)

    also deposit taken at beginning of tenancy has not been held in a protection scheme.

    Then June 2017 advised by relation/ son of landlord the flat is going to be sold-the tenant has been offered first refusal , but has no chance of buying it

    The neighbouring flat is wholly owned by a different owner, who has maintained the property , its a house converted into 2 flats whilst tenant landlord has been totally absent

    Neighbour has noticed major issues , i.e structural, damp, etc on landlords property which will effect his property if not addressed

    So if landlord is selling , does he have to declare this to prospective buyer...
    or leave it to the prospective buyer for when they do a survey

    regarding freehold which is 50% owned by landlord/neighbour

    i saw this link
    http://www.lease-advice.org/advice/fact-sheets/right-of-first-refusal-fact-sheet/

    Legislation: Landlord & Tenant Act 1987

    What is it? Where a freeholder is disposing of an interest in the freehold they are required to offer leaseholders the right to buy that interest first before selling it to a third party.
    tinfoil hat ...

    Derisive attempt on behalf of blind conformists to discredit and stigmatise those who dare to question authority, ill thought out policies, PR Stunts....
    • G_M
    • By G_M 17th Jul 17, 2:13 PM
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    G_M
    The tenancy is a red herriing.

    The relationship between the landlord (leaseholder) and tenant is restricted to that landlord and tenant (and perhaps autorities like Environmental Health).

    The sale of the lease is entirely separate. Any faults/issues with the property should be flagged up by the buyers survey.

    The sale of the lease will most probably involve the potential buyer seeking certain reassurances from the freeholder (as previously explained). If the freehold is shared, no sensible buyer would accept reassurance from the joint freeholder who was selling his lease, because of the clear conflict of interest.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 17th Jul 17, 2:13 PM
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    eddddy
    Neighbour has noticed major issues , i.e structural, damp, etc on landlords property which will effect his property if not addressed

    So if landlord is selling , does he have to declare this to prospective buyer...
    or leave it to the prospective buyer for when they do a survey
    Originally posted by theblagger
    The seller does not have to declare anything.

    But the bottom line, is that a sensible seller would sort this kind of stuff out before selling, in order to get a better price.

    There are many investors who would buy properties with problems, disputes etc, if the price is cheap enough.

    Then June 2017 advised by relation/ son of landlord the flat is going to be sold-the tenant has been offered first refusal , but has no chance of buying it
    Originally posted by theblagger
    So the owner may choose to sell it with a tenant, or evict the tenant and sell it vacant.

    also deposit taken at beginning of tenancy has not been held in a protection scheme.
    Originally posted by theblagger
    I think that has to be dealt with before the tenant can be evicted.

    i saw this link
    http://www.lease-advice.org/advice/fact-sheets/right-of-first-refusal-fact-sheet/

    Legislation: Landlord & Tenant Act 1987

    What is it? Where a freeholder is disposing of an interest in the freehold they are required to offer leaseholders the right to buy that interest first before selling it to a third party.
    Originally posted by theblagger
    In this case, that would be like saying the joint freeholders Mr A and Mr B have to give the leaseholders Mr A and Mr B first refusal before selling.

    i.e. Mr A and Mr B could buy the freehold from Mr A and Mr B.

    i.e. You'd just end up where you started.
    • theblagger
    • By theblagger 17th Jul 17, 2:38 PM
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    theblagger
    The seller does not have to declare anything.

    But the bottom line, is that a sensible seller would sort this kind of stuff out before selling, in order to get a better price. yes I agree

    There are many investors who would buy properties with problems, disputes etc, if the price is cheap enough. yes



    So the owner may choose to sell it with a tenant, or evict the tenant and sell it vacant....interesting



    I think that has to be dealt with before the tenant can be evicted.

    Yes I believe a S21 has to be served , as its a periodic tenancy, the original tenancy ran out after 12 months, no new tenancy agreement was forthcoming

    although landlord always reiterated to the tenant that he could stay there as long as possible.

    In this case, that would be like saying the joint freeholders Mr A and Mr B have to give the leaseholders Mr A and Mr B first refusal before selling.

    i.e. Mr A and Mr B could buy the freehold from Mr A and Mr B.

    i.e. You'd just end up where you started.
    Originally posted by eddddy
    I have advised the tenant to stay as long as possible, as this was a shock to them.
    tinfoil hat ...

    Derisive attempt on behalf of blind conformists to discredit and stigmatise those who dare to question authority, ill thought out policies, PR Stunts....
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