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  • FIRST POST
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jul 17, 10:28 AM
    • 7,301Posts
    • 7,457Thanks
    pappa golf
    Fight the French
    • #1
    • 16th Jul 17, 10:28 AM
    Fight the French 16th Jul 17 at 10:28 AM
    this thread now edited to remove original (stupid) fund crowding request to fund payment of fines , therefore most of the replies now make no sense !



    EDIT : a further crowd funding page has now been set up , this time to raise funds for an appeal

    https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/nhsvindigo

    I agree and will be assisting in this
    Last edited by pappa golf; 16-07-2017 at 6:48 PM.
Page 6
    • Cygnus Alpha
    • By Cygnus Alpha 14th Aug 17, 7:15 PM
    • 187 Posts
    • 307 Thanks
    Cygnus Alpha
    I have that information

    Interesting that is was signed August 1996 for a period of 20 years - references a building agreement that was not put in as evidence
    Originally posted by Softwaremad
    Thanks. That is useful to know. The deadline for them to respond to my FOI request is tomorrow so we'll see how they respond. They are certainly using up their maximum 20 working days to reply.
    • Cygnus Alpha
    • By Cygnus Alpha 14th Aug 17, 7:24 PM
    • 187 Posts
    • 307 Thanks
    Cygnus Alpha

    Welsh Minister - you have forever lost my vote, for years we are told politicians lie however never in my wildest dreams did i ever think they would lie about something that can be disproved so easily..

    Shame on you and any of your people who helped find this case for you to use as an excuse to get out of helping persecuted staff at the Heath Hospital.

    Somebody needs to step up and step in to resolve this - obviously it looks like the welsh assembly has finally shown itself to be the utter waste of funding and space that many of us believed it would be initially.

    What would be good - would be all NHS Staff standing together to say NO - NO More - the 16 unions on site were a party to a deal and refuse to help also.

    Thank you all for your support with this x much appreciated
    Originally posted by Softwaremad
    Agreed. The Welsh Minister has shown himself up to be a weasel and absolute disgrace. The unions are not much better.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th Aug 17, 8:17 PM
    • 5,987 Posts
    • 7,700 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Agreed. The Welsh Minister has shown himself up to be a weasel and absolute disgrace. The unions are not much better.
    Originally posted by Cygnus Alpha
    It's not just the Welsh Minister who has a title of "PLEB" ????
    THEY ALL DO?

    The biggest a*shole of all time is the smirking Jeremy Hunt

    He now spends £44,000 on a new bathroom.

    I wonder if Indigo helped to keep his stupid mouth shut ???

    Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt splashes out '£44,000 for a designer toilet and new bathroom for his office


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4787538/Jeremy-Hunt-spends-44-000-private-bathroom.html
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Ryandavis1959
    • By Ryandavis1959 14th Aug 17, 8:29 PM
    • 109 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Ryandavis1959
    It's not just the Welsh Minister who has a title of "PLEB" ????
    THEY ALL DO?

    The biggest a*shole of all time is the smirking Jeremy Hunt

    He now spends £44,000 on a new bathroom.

    I wonder if Indigo helped to keep his stupid mouth shut ???

    Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt splashes out '£44,000 for a designer toilet and new bathroom for his office


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4787538/Jeremy-Hunt-spends-44-000-private-bathroom.html
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    That's absolutely disgusting behaviour, for that amount of money the government could have written off hundreds of these "fines" instead they spend it on furnishing their toilets!
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th Aug 17, 8:34 PM
    • 5,987 Posts
    • 7,700 Thanks
    beamerguy
    That's absolutely disgusting behaviour, for that amount of money the government could have written off hundreds of these "fines" instead they spend it on furnishing their toilets!
    Originally posted by Ryandavis1959
    Who said the government paid ?????
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Cygnus Alpha
    • By Cygnus Alpha 5th Sep 17, 9:45 PM
    • 187 Posts
    • 307 Thanks
    Cygnus Alpha
    Well, the deadline for the FOI request came and went. After 5 weeks I issued a reminder. Still no reply. It will have to be the ICO next.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 5th Sep 17, 10:14 PM
    • 7,301 Posts
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    pappa golf
    any fines imposed for failure of FOI request would only be a small percentage of money being claimed
    • Dr Crypto
    • By Dr Crypto 5th Sep 17, 10:45 PM
    • 109 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Dr Crypto
    Heard a few things on "the grapevine" about this. I don't work in Wales but am fairly familiar with the Cardiff site on the basis of past experience.

    Those involved were advised by the unions that they were likely to lose the court case and should come to an agreement to pay.

    The Trust really can't do anything. The agreements over these car parks (and I've worked at another place where this company operates) transfers the whole management of the car park to the operator. I did here the Trust advised them to settle.

    To me it doesn't seem unreasonable to have more permits than spaces. The whole staff of a hospital isn't likely to be on duty at the same time, even less so in the cases of nurses and doctors who work shifts.

    Parking in NHS staff car parks can be awful - normally as a result of a shortage of space and people having to leave their cars anywhere in order to get to work on time.

    In some locations the planning conditions of the hospital limits staff parking in an attempt to persuade staff to use public transport.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 5th Sep 17, 10:50 PM
    • 7,301 Posts
    • 7,457 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Heard a few things on "the grapevine" about this. I don't work in Wales but am fairly familiar with the Cardiff site on the basis of past experience.

    Those involved were advised by the unions that they were likely to lose the court case and should come to an agreement to pay.

    The Trust really can't do anything. The agreements over these car parks (and I've worked at another place where this company operates) transfers the whole management of the car park to the operator. I did here the Trust advised them to settle.

    To me it doesn't seem unreasonable to have more permits than spaces. The whole staff of a hospital isn't likely to be on duty at the same time, even less so in the cases of nurses and doctors who work shifts.

    Parking in NHS staff car parks can be awful - normally as a result of a shortage of space and people having to leave their cars anywhere in order to get to work on time.

    In some locations the planning conditions of the hospital limits staff parking in an attempt to persuade staff to use public transport.
    Originally posted by Dr Crypto
    and I believe earlier in this thread it was pointed out that the first available "public transport" (bus) arrived some time after shift change and the last evening "bus" was before shift change , the hospital knew EXACTLY how many staff were on duty each day , but still issued many hundreds if not 1000s more permits than space available
    • Dr Crypto
    • By Dr Crypto 5th Sep 17, 11:58 PM
    • 109 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Dr Crypto
    Entirely possible.
    One place I worked tightly controlled permits and only issued well matched numbers according to strict criteria. It annoyed the staff as well.

    My understanding is that my permit allows me to park in a designated space. It doesn't allow me to park anywhere I find on site even if the designated staff car park is full.

    Staff parking in the NHS is a nightmare but there are few easy solutions.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Sep 17, 6:57 AM
    • 14,634 Posts
    • 23,023 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Staff parking in the NHS is a nightmare but there are few easy solutions.
    Engaging a PPC to issue penalties like confetti is not one of these. Doesn't address any fundamental.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 6th Sep 17, 9:51 AM
    • 1,487 Posts
    • 2,770 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Dr C makes a point but what people are glossing over is that the "tariff" price on the parking charges is £20. At issue is the £100 + in "costs" that are being added on.

    Most staff could cope with £20 (£10 if paid early) but the court case was not about the basis of the tickets but the amounts that can be loaded onto them.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.
    • Dr Crypto
    • By Dr Crypto 6th Sep 17, 8:51 PM
    • 109 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Dr Crypto
    Engaging a PPC to issue penalties like confetti is not one of these. Doesn't address any fundamental.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Yes and no, I guess.

    It doesn't directly solve the issue which is lack of capacity. However, it does ensure:
    Patients don't park in the staff spaces (and vice-versa)
    Peoplevpark in designated spaces and not all over the site potentially blocking access
    Revenue is obtained for the hospital - probably essential when funding is so tight.

    Anyway back on topic. Good luck to my colleagues in Cardiff. It sounds like they've been badly advised and I hope they can raise funds for an appeal if the judgement is defective.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Sep 17, 10:22 PM
    • 14,634 Posts
    • 23,023 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Revenue is obtained for the hospital - probably essential when funding is so tight.
    What? From Indigo?

    The court case outcome (extrapolated) suggests that Indigo could be in line for a £12m+ windfall. How much of that will go to fund vital organ transplants, chemotherapy treatments, joint replacements et al?

    Or will it be simply lavished on even more foie gras and Crystal?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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